Ladder Bars with Leaf Springs?

34529 Views 29 Replies 7 Participants Last post by lt1_performance, Jun 28, 2009

lt1_performance

Discussion Starter · Jun 18, 2009

As said in my last post, I am building a "gasser" style early 60's Volvo 122s and have been trying to pick my rear suspension. I bought a narrowed nine-inch yesterday to go behind it. Ive been contemplating a ladder bar/leaf spring setup. After researching and trying to find info on this setup, most everybodys answer to this problem is ditch the whole thing and go with 4-link/coil-overs. Or go with Cal-tracs, one of the two... But neither of these setups fit the 60's nostalgic look. **So really what i want to know is what is the "best" way of preventing the binding suspension problem of this setup?** The three ways ive heard of are housing floaters, double-shackled leaf springs, and sliders on the front of the spring. Ive only seen the floating housing in action on "Gearz Tv" on Speed Channel, so are there any advantages to the others and what are your thoughts on the "nostalgia" setup?

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barnym17

· #2 · Jun 18, 2009

Use the floaters on the housing,allows the housing to rotate freely so all reaction forces are thru the ladder bar.Leaf just holds the car up.

cobalt327

· #3 · Jun 18, 2009

lt1_performance said:
what are your thoughts on the "nostalgia" setup?

I think its cool, but the nostalgia thing can run you backwards- technology wise- to the point that you have more problems/draw backs than is necessary.

I would at least consider using a more conventional "newer school" rear suspension (like a 4-link, et al- advantage being better adjustability and ease of tuning for track/street conditions) and let the wheels and tires, exhaust, stance, accessories, details, shifter, tack and gages, interior appointments and straight front axle speak "nostalgia".

I guess what I'm saying is- a leaf sprung, ladder bar rear suspension isn't necessary to be a nostalgia-flavored, gasser-styled car. This set-up can also be tuned for most any condition, but lacks the flexibility of other systems, IMO.

Should you decide to use the leaf spring/ladders anyway, I would go w/a CE floating housing mount to allow the rear end to rotate independent of the leaf springs, otherwise the set-up will just not work, and would basically be a trailer queen.

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barnym17

· #4 · Jun 18, 2009

If you really want nostalgia use the mopar style leafs only with a few tricks they hook very well probably better than ladder bars in the right hands.

cranky1

· #5 · Jun 18, 2009

barnym17 said:
If you really want nostalgia use the mopar style leafs only with a few tricks they hook very well probably better than ladder bars in the right hands.

That's true to a point, depending on how much power you sock to the rear. I've managed to make the stock setup work pretty good even without that dang pinion snubber that most Mopar people seem to like. I hate it. The stock setup seems to give up once you get into the 11's....and that too depends on vehicle weight etc.

lt1_performance

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 19, 2009

Well the car will be almost all track dedicated so really I dont need a multi-purpose suspension. But I do want to run quick ET's and eventually add a blower or something to push it to the 9's or possibly quicker. Would this suspension be capable of that?

cobalt327

· #7 · Jun 19, 2009

lt1_performance said:
Well the car will be almost all track dedicated so really I dont need a multi-purpose suspension. But I do want to run quick ET's and eventually add a blower or something to push it to the 9's or possibly quicker. Would this suspension be capable of that?

Yes.
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ericnova72

· #8 · Jun 19, 2009

Ladder bars w/housing floaters will work fine, like Barnym17 said, and give you the old school look you are looking for. Properly set up they will equal the 4-link hook-wise, they just aren't as adjustable if you get on a poor track. You might also consider the leaf springs with Cal-Trac bars, guys are running very fast on them too without problems (8-second ET's 150+ MPH).

lt1_performance

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jun 20, 2009

Well as far as that goes I think thats gonna be my setup, I looked on CE's website a found the bolt-on floater and a weld-on version. I can easily picture the bolt-on floater working but the weld-on looks like it would bind because of the inability of the housing to rotate.. Can anyone help me understand that one?

http://competitionengineering.com/catalog/CategoryDisplay.asp?CatCode=10047

ericnova72

· #10 · Jun 20, 2009

Maybe your understanding of what the housing floater does needs some clarification. The rear housing does not rotate in the housing floater, the ladder bar controls this force. The housing floater allows the spring to slide front to back (1/4" or less) in the floater as the suspension is compressed so that the spring and the ladder bar aren't fighting with each other to be the axle locator. The ladder bar is the locator and rotation preventer, the leaf spring is now JUST a spring (load carrier); and not also the locator, rotation preventer, and load carrier all in one package.

lt1_performance

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jun 21, 2009

Understood, but what im getting at is as the suspension compresses the pinion angle will change as the ladder bar moves up and down thus changing the angle of the "floater" unlike the spring which will not change angle with the floater would in my imagination would cause binding...
-But even neglecting this idea, the instructions of the weld-on floaters say "clamp main pivot section to leaf springs" which in my mind wouldnt let the spring "slide" atop the spring... sounds wrong to me..

ericnova72

· #12 · Jun 21, 2009

The amount of pinion angle change with suspension movement is so minor that it isn't a concern. I see what you mean about their weld-on floater and you are correct. That type of floater will require a slider at both ends of the spring. I've actually never seen anything but the bolt together floater used, but they are usually welded to the housing too instead of just bolted together.

lt1_performance

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jun 21, 2009

So with that cleared up I guess it'll be the bolt-on version as I dont wanna have to come up with a slider on the spring too.. Well assuming my S-10 springs arent worn out I can move to the building stage. Ive looked around at the ladder bars available from jegs and CE and think a double-adjustable is the way to go...which oddly brings up another question, will pinion angle and preload be as adjustable with the leaf springs? There looks to be a few more limitations with this setup but it still seems like the best plan...

cobalt327

· #14 · Jun 21, 2009

lt1_performance said:
There looks to be a few more limitations with this setup but it still seems like the best plan...

Of course it's limited!

It is the "best plan" ONLY because you want it to look like a ca. 1960's drag car, remember?

This whole deal was surpassed years ago. No one uses the set-up unless they're budget restricted or have some other non-performance related agenda, like- in your case- styling.

Can it be tuned and made to work? Of course, but it takes some more time and effort to tune, is all. But it will work.

lt1_performance

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jun 21, 2009

Well who doesnt enjoy a challenge? And a few more bucks in the wallet never hurts... But good answer to the question anyways... :drool:

cobalt327

· #16 · Jun 21, 2009

lt1_performance said:
Well who doesnt enjoy a challenge?

I know you must!

I mean, a Volvo Gasser?

That's a challenge!

ericnova72

· #17 · Jun 21, 2009

More encouragement here! The Volvo body has that nice rounded late-40's-50's look to it, its not worth anything much restored stock, and its SMALL!!-- perfect Gasser material!!! I'm in the planning and parts collection process for this winters project, a 1971 Vega done up with a straight axle and nose high stance to emulate the match race drag cars from the 1967-73 era. I'm in love with that look.

lt1_performance

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jun 22, 2009 (Edited)

Im glad somebody else but me sees my vision here. Oh and I do enjoy the challenge.

barnym17

· #19 · Jun 22, 2009

Leafs with the fronts clamped up in the front will give good results about as good as ladder bar and easier to do.Also another neat one is 1/2 leafs with coil overs or 5 inch coils actually supporting the wieght of the car.Uses a panhard bar to locate the rear end side to side.Also a leaf link would be period correct uses an upper bar like a 4 link and gives pretty close to the same results.

cranky1

· #20 · Jun 22, 2009

barnym17 said:
Leafs with the fronts clamped up in the front will give good results about as good as ladder bar and easier to do..

I have to disagree with that. I've run cars with a leaf system and with a ladder bar setup and I'll take the ladders any time over a leaf setup, especially on a faster car. Also, leaf springs do wear out and the more abuse they take, the faster that is. Not only are they supporting the weight of the car, they are also taking all the punishment of what the engine can dish out to them. With ladders, the springs don't have a whole lot to do since the ladders take all the punishment of the launch.....and my cars seem to break the clamp bolts pretty fast so instead, I stack my springs differently and don't bother with tight clamping them.

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