[bigmikeh24]

I spent the last 6 months filling, fairing and blocking my '65 mustang.
I painted the hood, trunk lid, fenders and little parts off the car in Nason 3.5 2 stage Brittany Blue. Those parts came out fairly nice but the main body base coat ended up spraying dry and splotchy especially on the horizontal surfaces. :sweat:
I also had the problem of 1st buying the Nason base with one type of binder and then needed more base paint later on and found that the binder changed because of new VOC laws. This meant that I couldn't blend the new paint with the old to keep the tint consistent. I ended up having to use the new paint in the jambs and used it on the 1st 2 coats, let it flash and then used the old base on top. Both base paints we going on dry and I couldn't figure out exactly why but I was already into plus it was going to rain the next day and needed to make room to get the other car back in the garage before the rain came. So I went ahead and bit the bullet and shot the clear.
I used a Devilbiss 670plus gun with a 1.3 tip.
This is my first full paint job attempt. It was going acceptable until it came to the biggest and most important part.
The question is should I sand and reshoot the entire car again or am I better off taking it to someone who knows what he's doing?
Should I spray primer over what I just shot to start with a new canvas? Whats the best way to keep the new paint from getting into the jambs?
Does anyone know what the cost in the SF Bay area would be for a scuff and reshoot?

 

[302 Z28]

Too many areas where goofs took place IMHO. If I were doing the job I would strip it all off, shoot several coats of epoxy primer and start all over again this time doing it correctly.

As far as paying someone else to do it for you the cost can run all over the place from $800+ to over $10,000 ans quality will vary with price.

Vince

 

[bigmikeh24]

I don't get it.
Why would I want to strip an entire paint job and all the filler and primer underneath just because the metallic in my base coat didn't flow as good as it should have?
BTW, The guy on the Dupont tech line said it was perfectly fine to spray the paints with different binders as long as I gave it a half hour to flash. I checked with them before I sprayed the base. So I'm not worried about that part.

 

[48cad]

I would scuff with 600 or 800 and re-base it. I see no reason to strip and start from scratch, unless your concern is with unreasonable product build up. You didn't say what clear you used or how many coats?? I'll assume Nason 496 or 497 since you you used nason Base? As long as you don't break thru the clear you shouldn't have an issue with the base lifting. If your concerned about lifting you can shoot some sealer or epoxy on before giving another shot at shooting it.

 

[kenseth17]

If its been cleared, I don't really see a reason to strip it either. Depends on how poorly that base was sprayed, and wonder if there is going to be an issue with the bond of the clearcoat to it. But no reason you couldn't otherwise sand the clear smooth, shoot some epoxy on any cutthroughs you have, and reshoot base on top.
Sounds like you already bought the paint, but you may want to go with a better line and a polyester based basecoat. I haven't used nason, but heard others say many times on here how the metallic control in nason is not the best, and how tricky it can be to spray. I have used the nason clearcoat a few times, and didn't think that is too bad, layed down well for me anyways. But the 496 unless you use slow reducer and activator will set up aweful quick. I remember having a bear of a time shooting some metallics in omni many many years ago, when I was still fairly new to painting, as well as many colors that coverage was pitiful.This is just another area where using a better base usually pays off, coverage and ease of use.
I would surely practice some more before respraying the car to figure out what your doing wrong. Get you gun dialed in and if it ends up being needed, how to shoot a mist coat to help even a metallic. But you still will need to be able to get the base down medium wet, and shoot your mist coat soon after while the previously sprayed stuff will still accept it, or else you could again end up with a dry, rough or cobby base, and possible adhesion problems in the future between the base and clearcoat.
I don't know if you have to use different product then other areas being in california, but seems to me, the more they change the voc laws and make them conform to tougher standards, the crappier the product becomes.

 

[mike the painter]

In My shop it just a redo,new painters I hire take a while to get used to my system..Do it yourself,your almost there.you've gained valuable experiance,just chaulk it up to experiance.first of all Nason base(ful-base) is what I use and it takes a lot of experiance to use it,you just put it on a little to heavy thats all.Now ,if I were you I'd use chroma base,its much more forgiving...If your ok with the jambs just tape them off.but repaint all the exterior panels for a good color match...try it again...a real quick sanding with 400 to get out the dirt and runs then a red scuff pad for the rest.No big deal just make sure you get it scuffed completly or it'll peal around the edges. :thumbup: :thumbup: If you have trouble with the clear dont stop untill you have two coats on it. BTW, what kind of clear are you using?

 

[bigmikeh24]

In My shop it just a redo,new painters I hire take a while to get used to my system..Do it yourself,your almost there.you've gained valuable experiance,just chaulk it up to experiance.first of all Nason base(ful-base) is what I use and it takes a lot of experiance to use it,you just put it on a little to heavy thats all.Now ,if I were you I'd use chroma base,its much more forgiving...If your ok with the jambs just tape them off.but repaint all the exterior panels for a good color match...try it again...a real quick sanding with 400 to get out the dirt and runs then a red scuff pad for the rest.No big deal just make sure you get it scuffed completly or it'll peal around the edges. :thumbup: :thumbup: If you have trouble with the clear dont stop untill you have two coats on it. BTW, what kind of clear are you using?

That's funny about the Chroma Base. I had every intention of going that route but the guy that runs the paint shop talked me out of it and said I should use the Nason since the matallics back then were simpler and I wouldn't need the fancy Chroma base. Now I'm kicking myself.

I used Dupont 2400S for the Clear. I had a little bit of the usual orange peel but it sanded and buffed just fine.

If I scuff and spay over the clear, will I have issues with the old base coat cloudiness showing through the new base or do I just spray the new base heavy enough to cover the old base?

 

[bubjel]

Metallics can be the hardest base to spray

Especially for a first time painter; Here's a link that should help; https://corporateportal.ppg.com/NR/...FBBF6/0/techTips_AvoidingtheMottleEffect.pdf; Remember all the hard work you have done; you should not take inexpensive short cuts in the end; purchasing a quality base system should help make spraying the base easier; I would just resand with 600 & rebase & clear. Good Luck

 

[mike the painter]

Concider the last paint job a sealer now, its a uniform enough color.It''ll have to be prepped like any other paint job but since its fresh(kinda)Sand with 400 and a red scuff pad... rebase, remember base isnt like SS dont try to make it shine ,you'll be putting it on to heavy ...spray three coats waiting between coats for it to dry.Then fog two to three more coats going the opposite direction(criss cross)to get the metallics even and standing up....Dont tack or touch when you start fogging, then clear two coats nice and wet no more no less,two coats...sand and buff or wait a week and sand the clear ,removing runs and dirt with 800 wet sand and apply two more coats of clear ......This is how I get away without sanding and buffing.If you do reclear remove old paper and tape and redo that to old paint can fly off and land in your beautiful paint job ....and it only happens on the last coat for some reason...

 

[bubjel]

If Brittney Blue has metallic in it

I think 400 might be a little agressive; but if it doesn't then 400 will be fine.

 

[mike the painter]

I think 400 might be a little agressive; but if it doesn't then 400 will be fine.

400-600, oops even 320 da will work,just to knock down the dirt and runs then the scuff pad will do most everything else or sand everything flat again(no orange peel) start with 400 and then 600 thats cool too I just didnt want to complicate things any more than I had too.....I see you've painted a few too.Bub J :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[bigmikeh24]

If you do reclear remove old paper and tape and redo that to old paint can fly off and land in your beautiful paint job ....and it only happens on the last coat for some reason...

That's what happened when I sprayed the clear coat after the base. Only in one spot at the door where I had plastic masked off to cover the interior. The plastic vibrated and parts of the base coat over spray blew off and landed in the clear. ARRRRRGh!!! :spank:

I did some more wet sanding and buffing last night and it's not looking as bad as I thought. There's a couple pin holes and clouds on the horizontal flat surfaces like the roof and below the rear window but the vertical areas actually look decent. I'm only looking for a driver paint job. I don't plan to show it. Just drive it until some crack head in my fair city puts a gun to my head in an intersection and takes it from me. Then I'll make an insurance claim and get another one to work on. As long as I didn't get shot in the process. :smash:

 

[kenseth17]

Exactly, your clearcoat is now like a sealer to spray on, and will make a good surface to paint on, provided it is sprayed decent, or at least sanded fairly flat. And being the basecoat color shows through, coverage of your new base should be somewhat easy to achieve. Your new coats of base should cover the cloudiness, and clear up the blotchiness of the old metallic, provided you can spray the new stuff well.
I wouldn't go 400 for a metallic. Around 600 should be in the ballpark. You will want to avoid cutting through your clear into the base underneath if you can help it, which could give you other headaches when you shoot new base/solvents over it.

The chromabase should be a bit easier shooting a metallic. The knock on chromabase seems to be for a pricier line, it seems to have more coverage issues then other brands comparable lines, so your best off shooting it over what duponts recommended shade of valueshade primer/sealer. Being as you already have shot your color, and are reshooting for your blotchy metallic and cloudiness issues, coverage really shouldn't be an issue.

 

[mike the painter]

You'll be fine as long as your happy BC/CC is a tough one to start out on...as long as you enjoyed it and want to do another,your ahead. Right Ken? :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[jacko3]

I agree that you should finish the job yourself. Based on what you have said , I think you have a gun that was not cleaned properly, or a loose or damaged teflon seal on the gun needle shaft, or the packing nut is too tight and restricting the free movement of the needle. In short it might be the gun is spitting. After verifying these are or are not your problem, then test spray about 3 ounces of strained top coat on a piece of cardboard.

 

[mike the painter]

good point jack...always start at the begining when tring to trouble shoot a problem ,the thing you overlook will most likely be the cause.

 

[Bee4Me]

Kinda surprised nobody said anything about Nason thru a 1.3 tip.

Main reason the "small" stuff looked good and then on the large areas splotched or DRY SPRAYED.
With a 1.3 you have to go slow and deliberate on large areas or complete vehicles as your not putting out enough product to COVER a LARGE area at the SPEED you THINK you should go at. Your pattern is going to be short and if you open up the fluid to compensate,your going to splotch or peel the base.
Add more air and your wasting paint. Your only going to get a SPECIFIC,CORRECT pattern out of that gun/tip combo. FIND IT!!!!
Do test sprays on paper 6-8" out till you get the gun making the best,tallest patern.Generally full open on the FAN knob or a 1/4 turn in from open and 2 3/4 on the fluid to start and I bet you won't be far from that when it's all said and done.
Air PSI. WHAT does the GUN recommend??? It have a REGULATOR??
Do NOT use a choke/cheater valve to adjust the psi on an HVLP gun.you WANT air FLOW and only a regulator can do that.
Make a pass on a lower rocker or someplace inconspicious and adjust the fliud to compensate for your speed in order to get decient coverage,likely a 1/4 turn more out on the fluid,your pass's will also be slower than you think.
OVERLAP. 60-75% for metallics.Think about this for a minuite.
When you do your test sprays,MEASURE the total HEIGHT of the pattern when it's right. Say it's 6",You realize you'll only move the gun approx 2" up or down for 75% overlap for the NEXT pass????.
Personally,I'd be looking for a 1.4 nozzle for that gun if you plan on painting a complete and ESPECALLY for the CLEAR.
Also,What base are you planning on this time?
Reason is,
If you plan on Chroma,I would go 800 on the final sand of the clear or red scotch pad the entire car because Chromabase won't fill scratchs for crap and your sanding HAS to be GOOD.Yes it IS an "easier" spraying base for metallics BUT, it's piss thin and will fall into ANY hole you have on the surface.
Your essentially doing a "blend" repair job shooting over the clear job and with it being "fresh" clear,your prone to solvent sand scratch swelling.
Nason on the other hand is thicker and does FILL better BUT,is a tougher shoot metallic wise.
Either way,allow LONGER flash time between coats.
When sprayig Chroma I will either do as above or shoot a coat of intercoat clear FIRST as this will fill any sanding scratchs and make the metallic base smoother and easier to lay down.

 

[bigmikeh24]

Guys, thanks for all the great advice.
Bee4Mee, you're right about the 1.3 tip. I did some test sprays on an old door and the 1.3 tip worked better than the 1.4 tip but things were different on a horizontal surface.
I do have a regulator at the gun that ran best at 35psi. My compressor had no trouble keeping up.
When I was spraying a large surface, I had the fluid set wide open and actually had to slow my passes down or the paint went on too dry and thin and the light and heavy spots would get worse. The spray pattern was set 3/4 of a turn open from fully closed. If I opened it further, the center of the pattern would be light and the edges heavy, just the opposite if it was closed more than 3/4 of a turn. I was holding the gun about 6"-8" from the surface.
I tried the criss cross pattern on the hood but it actually made the blen even worse.
I was following the manufacturers recommendation of 1:1 ratio with the reducer. Maybe I should have adjusted that.
I only messed with the 1.4 tip on both the base and the clear when I was 1st dialing the gun in but the 1.3 seemed to work better at the time.
I only over lapped 50%, maybe I should had done 75%.
The sun is shining right now, so I think I'll pull it outside and see what it looks like.
I took the gun apart after every session and saw no paint buildup inside. I did have to tighten the needle packing when I 1st set up the gun, after that, I had no issues with splatter.
You'll see that I only have 3 or 4 posts but I've been reading on this forum since around June. It's a great site.

 

[mike the painter]

Oops, Did I forget to tell you to hold the gun at least a foot (12"-24")from the surface when you fog the criss cross ? and thats after the three coats of base is on...

 

[Bee4Me]

so your saying you had the fluid wfo and the fan at 3/4 open?
Something is wrong here.
I got to do some thinking about this as to why,could be the air cap holes next to the nozzle opening are blocked and the fan is blowing it out.

Thought a little about it.
You set the gun up EXACTLY as I said previously and do some test sprays and give us the results.Full pull on the trigger for 1 second and release.
If it's not "close",you have gun issues.

You cut the fan off and with the fluid wfo,should have one,nasty,running,circle,at your spraying distance.
You open the fan back up to full with full fluid and you'll likely blow it out as it's WAY too WET from all the fluid and the fan is just helping push it out.

I've not sprayed any of the low VOC stuff so I have no idea what it's consistency is.I've sprayed about everything thru most any style gun and ALWAYS been able to achieve a good pattern IF the GUN if functioning properly and the AIR is the proper amount REQUIRED for the gun used.
Yeah,I may have to adjust the product ratio for the prefered finish due to the gun's "characteristics",But still with those base settings,had a good starting point.