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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know there are a few machinists that frequent this site, so I thought I would get an idea of what you charge.

I have a set of 351w D0OE heads and lucky me found out one of the guides is cracked when I cleaned them up, and also found out when I unassembled the heads that the valve in said cracked guide, is slightly bent, eye balling it a person wouldn't know it.

Gimme your prices so I can compare them locally.

clean and magnaflux = ? (heads are pretty clean now except for a good coating of wd-40 and minimal traces of stubborn carbon build up)

new cheap stock size valves w/t three angle + ?

seat said valves = ?

check springs condition = ?

drill existing guides and press in bronze inserts = ?

light resurface = ?

replace guide = ?

install hardened valve seats = ?

How important is it to replace the valve guide if its only cracked at the very top portion of the guide (1/4-1/2" from top) when drilling them out and inserting bronze guides? I know its not that expensive to replace the guides but money is money and I already believe I was burned pretty good on these supposedly good heads, so anything I can save is great as long as it doesn't sacrafice durability.

thanks
 

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357ford said:
I know there are a few machinists that frequent this site, so I thought I would get an idea of what you charge.

I have a set of 351w D0OE heads and lucky me found out one of the guides is cracked when I cleaned them up, and also found out when I unassembled the heads that the valve in said cracked guide, is slightly bent, eye balling it a person wouldn't know it.

Gimme your prices so I can compare them locally.

clean and magnaflux = ? (heads are pretty clean now except for a good coating of wd-40 and minimal traces of stubborn carbon build up)

new cheap stock size valves w/t three angle + ?

seat said valves = ?

check springs condition = ?

drill existing guides and press in bronze inserts = ?

light resurface = ?

replace guide = ?

install hardened valve seats = ?

How important is it to replace the valve guide if its only cracked at the very top portion of the guide (1/4-1/2" from top) when drilling them out and inserting bronze guides? I know its not that expensive to replace the guides but money is money and I already believe I was burned pretty good on these supposedly good heads, so anything I can save is great as long as it doesn't sacrafice durability.

thanks


Clean cylinder head, cast iron---$10- $15.00 each

Magnaflux head, each ----- $10-15.00 each

V-8 valve job, includes cleaning and refacing of valves, grinding, cutting seats, testing spring pressure, final cleaning and assembly.

Should run you between $80.00 and $100.00 for the valve job process.

R&R valve guide--- $4.00 each

Cut and install hardened seat --- $6.00 each

Resurface V-8 head, $20.00 -$25.00 each

The guide price should run you about $2.50 each for bronze and the seats will run you around four to five bucks each.

New, stock type valves will run you about five bucks each. Maybe a little more.

These are basic guidelines of what things should cost.
 

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I would charge 475.00 to do those heads and it would include new valves engine tech with +.015 stems,new springs stock, new keepers, new seals, resurface, magna-fluxed, cleaned,3 angle valve job, new frost plugs,set spring height,and harden exhaust seats, assembled.Now if you were to go the hot rod way add another 400.00 that would be from the increase in the premium parts and the addition of installing bronze guides.





mike
 

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Rogers Performance said:
I would charge 475.00 to do those heads............Now if you were to go the hot rod way add another 400.00.......
Well, no offense Mike, but that sounds pretty steep to me.

If I were spending that kind of $$$ for a set of worked over stock 351W heads I'd take a good hard look at Power Heads. They throw in some CNC porting for good measure. ;)
 

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prices

In the part of the country where me and mike live his price is about $75.00 / $100.00 lower then most people from the area.... Plus with mike you can be assured you are getting top quality work with attention to detail.....

I wouldn't do it for any less in my shop...

Keith
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Definitely a little difference in pricing between posts.

So how important is it to replace the guide that has a crack at the top (1/4-1/2") down...when I plan to drill them out and install bronze guides?
 

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Re: prices

k-star said:
In the part of the country where me and mike live his price is about $75.00 / $100.00 lower then most people from the area.... Plus with mike you can be assured you are getting top quality work with attention to detail.....

I wouldn't do it for any less in my shop...

Keith
Like I said, no offense intended.

And I do realize different parts of the country are going to have price variations.

Here in the Portland area I had a set of 68 302 heads gone thru and spent about $650 in machine work and parts (good ones). And that included switching to screw in studs.

I had this all done at one of the better shops around that my family has done business with for almost 25 years. Never a take back in all that time.

In all honesty though, if I were doing iron heads again I'd consider the Power Heads. I've known people that have used them and I've seen the heads up close and personal. Good pieces that give very good performance.

I know a machinist has to pay the bills and I don't expect something for nothing. But I guess I'm lucky to be in an area where the overhead isn't as high.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If I hadn't purchased these heads already then I would consider the power heads, actually I wouldn't consider them that long as I can get my hands on a set of completely redone E7's that flow better and come with a flow sheet for 3/4 the price of those, the E7 pricing is a year old so inflation may have taken hold. Not saying the powerheads aren't a good product, just saying.


Actually the heads I have are ported and seemed to help pull a naturally aspireated 302 mustang pretty good down the quarter mile. I am just irritated that I found the cracked guide and bent valve. I suppose I could just replace the guide and valve for the $20-25 that I was quoted locally, but now I am thinking why not go ahead and have them redone. But $475 to have it done, doesn't make me wanna invest any time soon. :)

All I know is I took a gamble, bought these and will probably end up with more in them than the previously mentioned E7's I could have purchased...that sux.
 

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When the price gets that high i always try to see if the guy can go the step farther and buy aftermarket it makes more sense.
As far as your guide being cracked don,t use a k-line liner you need to put a solid bronze in or a cast iron and then bronze wall it.I,am in one of the highest price areas for any thing 25 miles north of philly.I do alot off extra thing to my heads when i do the work that most people don,t.

You have not offended me in any way.
Good luck.


mike
 

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My prices are more than both k-star's and mike's. To take the time to do a job in a custom manner and pay attention to each and every detail takes time and effort, not mention that one has to have the proper tooling and access to good specifications.

A lot of shops (certainly not k-star's and mike's) are more interested in getting a job in and out. Quality is second to production in these facilities. This is why in most cases, new aftermarket heads need a valve job and milling right out of the box. Which isn't to say that aftermarket heads aren't a good deal. The design and materials are much better that old stock heads.

tom
 

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brains
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The problem with E7 heads is that they use a completely different rocker arm setup. They also have different cc'd chambers and they do not flow better then the C9-D0 351w heads. Your better off just fixing your 1 valve, or picking up a set of aftermarket heads.

Ben
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
brainsboy said:
The problem with E7 heads is that they use a completely different rocker arm setup. They also have different cc'd chambers and they do not flow better then the C9-D0 351w heads. Your better off just fixing your 1 valve, or picking up a set of aftermarket heads.

Ben

I would like to agree but in stock form the e7 flow almost identical on the exhaust side and the DO are only slightly better on the intake side. That is comparing different flow data. The E7's that I spoke of were ported and last time I checked the fella quoted me 520 and that was to completely redo them, port, and flow. He had done a set previously that were better than the p heads and that is exactly what I wanted. On a mild build the pedastel mount rockers are fine. While there is a risk of breaking them you also have the same risk of pulling out a D0's facotory press in stud so either way you have to intall studs.


Luckily I have access to a machine shop thats been in the back half of a parts store for years. The fella that does the work, may have a helper but he knows his stuff, as far as I can tell speaking with him, he didn't stumble on anything I asked him but never fails, funny things happen when people take my money...haha.



What about that cracked guide fellas? Will drilling the existing guide and installing inserts keep it structurally sound or should it be replaced?
 

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brains
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Im sure the guy knows his stuff, but comparing his flow bench results with those of another is like comparing apples and oranges. Flow benching is great when you compare 2 different heads at the same time, other then that its only good for showing off numbers to buddys. its absolultly worthless. There are so many ways to get the numbers you want, especialy on the exhaust side by using test pipes. At the begining of this year, I wanted to see what differences there were between using testpipes on the exhaust ports, and I got results from 189cfm to 219cfm. Which is the correct method? What I can tell you is that I have worked with C9-D0 ,heartshape heads, E6,E7 and you will come ahead with those D0-heads. I dont know if you have checked e-bay but aftermarket iron heads are dirt cheap, I have seen them under 500$ before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
brainsboy said:
Im sure the guy knows his stuff, but comparing his flow bench results with those of another is like comparing apples and oranges. Flow benching is great when you compare 2 different heads at the same time, other then that its only good for showing off numbers to buddys. its absolultly worthless. There are so many ways to get the numbers you want, especialy on the exhaust side by using test pipes. At the begining of this year, I wanted to see what differences there were between using testpipes on the exhaust ports, and I got results from 189cfm to 219cfm. Which is the correct method? What I can tell you is that I have worked with C9-D0 ,heartshape heads, E6,E7 and you will come ahead with those D0-heads. I dont know if you have checked e-bay but aftermarket iron heads are dirt cheap, I have seen them under 500$ before.
You have a point but that fella knows what the heads are flowing in stock form. I believe the E7 are open chamber heads as they chamber shape is different than the E6 heart shaped chamber. I check ebay often and have yet to see aftermarket heads for less than 500. I dunno, I will run what I have unless the cost to get them back to 100% is crazy.
 

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Re: Re: Machinist take a look - pricing ?

NAIRB said:
Clean cylinder head, cast iron---$10- $15.00 each

Magnaflux head, each ----- $10-15.00 each

V-8 valve job, includes cleaning and refacing of valves, grinding, cutting seats, testing spring pressure, final cleaning and assembly.

Should run you between $80.00 and $100.00 for the valve job process.

R&R valve guide--- $4.00 each

Cut and install hardened seat --- $6.00 each

Resurface V-8 head, $20.00 -$25.00 each

The guide price should run you about $2.50 each for bronze and the seats will run you around four to five bucks each.

New, stock type valves will run you about five bucks each. Maybe a little more.

These are basic guidelines of what things should cost.
This pretty close to what it would cost to get the job done here in Mid Missouri. Some things a few bucks more, other things a few buck less. Many shops will charge a set up charge if you're only going to machine one or two seats or guides rather than having all seats or guides done. This is fair because it takes as long or longer to set the machines up than it does to machine one seat or one guide.
 

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PRICING

It's very, very easy to get 500.00 wrapped up into a set of stock type heads. Particularly if you get the "works".

Competition is very high in the cylinder head market. The pricing gets so low sometimes for completely refurbished "performance" type stock heads, that the only way to make money at it is to do it on a high production basis. However, it's tough to do the little things that make em really run well.

I've sold alot of hot rod chevrolet stuff, and I usually stuff them with larger valves, bowl hog the valve pocket and perform an effective multi-angle seat to improve airflow, screw in studs and guide plates, and spring pocket, guide boss machining for special springs, etc. I usually sell them for about 550.00 per pair, but I ain't getting rich off of it.

I use a Sunnen VGS-20 machine, and it's pretty much been the industry standard for the last 20 years, and even with it, it's alot of work to do all of these things to stock heads, and when you look on Ebay, you see somebody selling a set for 450 bucks that are alot like yours, it makes you want to cry.

However, I do it more for the enjoyment of the hobby as opposed to becoming a fortune 500 machine shop.

The pricing above is what I charge, and pretty close to what Harry's Machine Works in Dodge City, Kansas charges.

Harry's has been AERA machine shop of the year several times, and is one beautiful shop.
 

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If you are into doing cylinder heads as a hobby and you are doing it for a living GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS because you are not making money at it and all you are doing is driving the prices down for the guys that are truly trying to make a living at it.I have this coversaion at least once a month with other shops that are losing there *** because they are still doing valve jobs for 150.00 a set.Lets face it people as engines get more sophisticated and valve stems get smaller your 40,000 dollar serdi or your 80,000 cnc newen machine that you need will take you about 266 valve jobs to pay it off.Thats if you buy the serdi.





mike
 

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Sorry Mike, I love what I do, and wouldn't hang it up for anybody.

I graduated from a machinist technical school in the 80s, built engines and hot rods all through high school. I worked for Glen Niebel of Niebel engines in Mt. Auburn Indiana until 1997. I also worked with Tony Stewart while he drove for Glen in 94, 95 and 96.

I was a poor boy, but always wanted to own my own machine shop. So, I left Glen's to start a repair shop in 1997 with the vision that I would some day own my own performance shop.

I am working on that very thing today, and I have a great passion for it. So, to tell me to quit doing it because I am hurting some other guy's bottom line is ridiculous in my book.

The law of economics always prevails. Supply and demand dictate the market. I am willing to work harder for less money because I enjoy the work. It helps me build my business. You have to compete in today's world. Build a better mouse trap, and you catch more mice!


Brian
 
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