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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been wanting to put a 4 speed in my 78 firebird for a while and while i'm restoring it i figured i might as well do it. It has a sbc in it.

Couple of questions.
1. What parts do i need? And i mean EVERYTHING to get the job done.
2. Whats the best 4speed that will work in my car? I'm in love with the sound of the m22 rock crusher, but i'm not sure if there are better options. I want a nice smooth feeling trans.
3. Where is the best place to buy?
 

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Call Brent @ Gears to Go Driveline LTD. Hes in Abbotsford BC (877-432-7786). He handles our Muncie stuff, T10 stuff, 833 stuff and some Tremec 5spd stuff

I ship to canada a lot and find its easier if you can find it on your side of the border already.
Tell him Nate from Auto Gear sent you
 

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Holy crap I boogered that. Thats what I get for working from home hopped up on cold meds. Sorry guys.

The only way Id put a factory M21/M22 in a car is if I had 4.11s or 4.56s and they had to stay; otherwise, I'd use an M20 for light duty, or M22w (2.56 1st gear M22 - aftermarket gear sets only); that way I could drop my axle to 3.55s or 3.73s.

Realisically; for an M22 you better have at least a grand for the trans alone, fully refurbished ones from vendors are about twice that.
Paul Cangialosi (5speeds.com) does amazing 4speeds (in fact he literally wrote the book on it), but I think he builds them from scratch only, so you're looking at over 2grand a box.
 

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Of course it's fast
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks. I have the stock highway gears now. I need to be able to cruise on the highway though so I'll pick gears that will let me do that. I've never been a fan of auto other than in trucks.
How about the super t-10? Any good? I'm only making like 350 at the crank so I don't need anything super strong
 

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As much as I love the muncie; theres nothing wrong with a T10 if you stay sane about it. A 2.88 1st gear ST-10 is just about perfect with 3.08 cruising gears. 2.88 x 3.08 = 8.87: 1 mechanical advantage. Compare that to an M21/M22 2.20 1st; with say 3.73s (2.20 x 3.73 = 8.20:1) The only drawback is that a 2.88 T10; while being used in lots of drag cars over the years was only rated by BW at I think 350hp. Now this is 350hp for a daily driver application. There are guys who make billet midplates for the T10 as well. And, a cast iron T10 case was produced years ago.

The alternative would be a Muncie with the custom 2.98 1st gear. The gearset retails for around 800 bucks. Try kajunjon.com Hes in Texas and rebuilds Muncies and T10s
 

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Of course it's fast
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well i'm not set on anything yet, i just think the m22's are awesome. But i'll use whatever will work best. The t-10 seems like a decent trans from what i'm reading. Jegs sells them (not sure if new or rebuilt but doesnt matter to me really) for $1600 with an assortment of gear ratio options. Here's a link Richmond 4-Speed T10 Transmissions - JEGS
Would this be a good route to go? Also, if someone could make a list of everything i need to make the change that would be really awesome. I found a 78 trans am being parted out that i can get parts from but i'd prefer new parts if abailable and affordable. But i'd like to at least get the pedals and console from it.
 

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If it was me for about the same price as the Jeg's trannies I'd be all over that muncie on ebay. You get almost the whole thing less the pedals and tranny mount. No searching and mixing and matching involved.
I had a m22 in my 70 chevelle LS6 with a regeared 12 bolt 3.08 ratio. Hard on clutches. A bear to drive off the line smoothly. M20 would have been better. I've even run saginaw 4 gears behind a 396 with a 3.11 first gear and 3.31 12 bolt. Not a strong tranny but easier to drive. Muncie's are much stronger.
 

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Of course it's fast
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If it was me for about the same price as the Jeg's trannies I'd be all over that muncie on ebay. You get almost the whole thing less the pedals and tranny mount. No searching and mixing and matching involved.
I had a m22 in my 70 chevelle LS6 with a regeared 12 bolt 3.08 ratio. Hard on clutches. A bear to drive off the line smoothly. M20 would have been better. I've even run saginaw 4 gears behind a 396 with a 3.11 first gear and 3.31 12 bolt. Not a strong tranny but easier to drive. Muncie's are much stronger.
Can't buy right now. I cant do anything to the car til november and plus i'm moving and need to get rid of as much stuff as possible. This most likely wont happen til late december at best, maybe not even til next summer. I need to get it all planned out, and set enough money aside to do it. That's why i'd rather depend on a company that regularly stocks what i need. I'd hate to have everything planned up for say an m20 and end up having to go with a t-10.

Oh and by the way, the ls6 chevelle is my dream car! I'd take one of those over any lambo or ferrari any day. Definitely my favorite car ever made.
 

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If you're a member on ebay just save the seller of that muncie in your favorite sellers list. Looks like that's his business. He could have the same set-up available by the time you're ready to buy.
Ah yes! The Ls6. Smoke em all the way into 4th gear with the original 4.10's. Enough torque that when you walked on it hard you get get the factory oil pressure idiot light to flicker cause the oil was climbing up the back of the pan. It was cranberry red, black stripes, black buckets and console. Wicked car.
That was 30 years ago!! Would be nice to go back!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ah yes! The Ls6. Smoke em all the way into 4th gear with the original 4.10's. Enough torque that when you walked on it hard you get get the factory oil pressure idiot light to flicker cause the oil was climbing up the back of the pan. It was cranberry red, black stripes, black buckets and console. Wicked car.
That was 30 years ago!! Would be nice to go back!!
You're killing me man! That sounds freakin awesome! I swear i was born in the wrong generation. :(:smash:
 

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Sorry Big!!
I guess you don't want to hear about my first foray into super high performance muscle then!
HEMI. 1967. GTX. 4 speed. 4.10 suregrip. Black on black. RPM out the wazzooo! Nothin' like the sound of them dual quads opening up. WAH!!! WAAAAHHHH!!!!! WAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!! 0 to 60 in a heartbeat!
Just good memories now!!!
 

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RE: Garage Motorsports

Hey Bigdog, I purchased an M-20 from Scott this spring at our local Monroe Wa swap meet and he gave me a great deal with a two year warranty. I have thrashed it good behind my tunnel rammed 350. The guy is really down home honest and just a rodder like everyone else who seems to love what he does. My 1972 Nova came with a tired Saginaw that I trashed in month after setting in the 350. As far as my setup. I am using a 66 pickup cast iron bellhousing, I figure cast is better for flywheel detonation; over stock, softer aluminum though I have some weight, and its low budget. Two other pluses on that old pickup bellhousing; I don't have to shim my starter clearance ( bolts to front of housing, instead of underneath) and its big enough I am running a 12 inch truck clutch. My 14 by 70 rear tires go up in smoke in a blip of the throttle and she is fun as hell.
 

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Of course it's fast
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Sorry Big!!
I guess you don't want to hear about my first foray into super high performance muscle then!
HEMI. 1967. GTX. 4 speed. 4.10 suregrip. Black on black. RPM out the wazzooo! Nothin' like the sound of them dual quads opening up. WAH!!! WAAAAHHHH!!!!! WAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!! 0 to 60 in a heartbeat!
Just good memories now!!!
That's freaking awesome. I'll never get that experience, but i can try to get close with my..... firebird:rolleyes:
 

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Of course it's fast
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hey Bigdog, I purchased an M-20 from Scott this spring at our local Monroe Wa swap meet and he gave me a great deal with a two year warranty. I have thrashed it good behind my tunnel rammed 350. The guy is really down home honest and just a rodder like everyone else who seems to love what he does. My 1972 Nova came with a tired Saginaw that I trashed in month after setting in the 350. As far as my setup. I am using a 66 pickup cast iron bellhousing, I figure cast is better for flywheel detonation; over stock, softer aluminum though I have some weight, and its low budget. Two other pluses on that old pickup bellhousing; I don't have to shim my starter clearance ( bolts to front of housing, instead of underneath) and its big enough I am running a 12 inch truck clutch. My 14 by 70 rear tires go up in smoke in a blip of the throttle and she is fun as hell.
Thanks! How's it feel shifting? I've heard the muncies are smooth as silk.
Anyone know how the t-10 shifts? I don't mind a slight bit of notchy-ness but my last car was just :smash: (audi:rolleyes:)
 
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