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241 - 260 of 2969 Posts

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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Yeow!

Brian
 

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Collector of "someday" cars
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You can see the base of the pole 25 ft behind the car. The only way I can think it would've gotten going fast enough to do that would be to come down a steep grade and lose it's brakes.
 

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Grand Prix user
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Discussion Starter · #244 ·
Exactamundo.:cool:

I am making headway but slowly. Right now I wish I had any valid reference for width of the rockers, theres just nothing to go by and guesses are time consuming. The door and post are more steady after connecting more stuff to the rocker. Still nothing I want to take a pic of and it looks about same. Door structure plan did break it's egg but is slow to get on it's feet. However, a great big chunk of the cabin inner structure appeared to me so I got out the chop saw and another stick of 1x3". Kinda bouncing around, seeking order among chaos and sooner or later poof it will all make sense and be in the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #246 ·
Its a good thing this is a forum or you might find my reaction to that to be overly appreciative. Thanks gobs for that because I see a couple things there that yeah, are very timely references. Spooky, man. Have a look at this first image which I just drew because I'm dreading trying to verbally give directions that follow the path last couple days.

There was an unsettling personal situation rattling my nerves last several days but then partway through today there was a eureka moment. Focus returned and backlogged thoughts surfaced quickly from then on. After that, taking things one at a time was the challenge. I am back to being excited after being a little concerned about a mental block taking shape. I'm learning this is just how my mind works, the complex stuff happens in the background while hands zap and hammer and I hum.

Then it hits like a double bacon cheeseburger, oh! :eek:

So I took a monster mental image dump so complex and colorful its better just to sketch it because it won't flush. This will help you guys see past the fixture in photos and shows the current state plus rough thoughts on things not yet made. Roof structure and fixture are still absent, on purpose. Stand by for regular programming plus a small bonus. Take the drawing over by the punch if you want, I'll be a few.

 

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Discussion Starter · #247 ·
Recess!:thumbup: Drag race you to the monkey bars. Me first, 1,2,GO!:rolleyes:

I am gonna do you all a favor and shut up. Heres the ol' lookaround, and I left off positioning the passenger side of the cowl so not ready for detail shot.

Something to keep in mind is camera distortion, I think I get some fisheye lens effect. Case and point... with two pallet boards shoved under the cowl as shown, that angle finder on the right A post happens to say 90 while the other is 87. Bolt hole shuffle is incomplete at cowl to rocker but my point is... that windshield angle does not look like its perpendicular but suprise suprise, it is. So just bear that in mind because I know no way to counter the effect.

If I can hit the highlights of the week so far in written format so you can follow the story, I'll post that explanation along with a couple other project shots directly. I still operate with the opinion that the pictures explain the words, not vise versa. But I get wordy and realize that. See how I said I would shut up but am still at it paragraphs later?

Check back.

Oh, I need another refill first. Ah. OK...:drunk: Is anybody in the bathroom?:confused:









 

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Discussion Starter · #248 ·
Hey! No sniffing your freshly lithographed Model A body diagrams, boys. :nono:

Mitch if you'll pass those back please... Thank you.

John, since you sit close to the door all the time would you switch the lights back on?

Rip, we can turn off the overhead projector now. Good job!

Brian, where are... oh that guy is always late.:rolleyes:

Pugsy would you roll up the screen and bring the transparencies to my desk please?

FAST, raise the blinds please sir and would everyone take out their notebooks now. Shhh

:D Forgive me, making up for yesterday's slack.

Monday I went in knowing I had what I call do-able gap space around the left door but not being quite comfortable with the hinge geometry and sync. Probably needing to move a hinge tube plus both pockets to keep the hinge from bottoming out before door is closed. But I had tabbed the door shut in a good spot.

My own fixture was right in the way of door to hinge bolts with it shut. I worked around that for awhile, but doggone it the whole thing was too floppy and nothing would stay.

I had grunted out an idea to tie hinges to each other so went to work on that. Well the fixture was in the way at every turn on that. I made two Ls by splitting 14ga 1x3" diagonally lengthwise. Cut too fast and had a little warpage, woops. Bent straight. But I tacked them in just to tie the hinge pockets. They will become part of the shell but are inside out and or bassackwards from the planned orientation. Its OK.

That helped the hinge area of the door hold still but the B pillar was all over the place. I still have not tied those together at the tops. Being indecisive, I altered course to buy digestion time for ideas.

Made a cardboard template of the door / quarter gap while myself and I teeter-tottered back and forth over ways to form the weatherstrip support piece that will box in where the hinge tubes stick out the front of the B pillars. Before deciding, the timer dinged on my squirmy door aperture dilemma. Angle iron between the pillars to hold their spacing, yeah!

So I added that, high and low. Again, adjusted door gap and tabbed it on. Oh. The angle iron is really really in the way of the door bolts. Well, crap it was quitting time. Only other thing I got done was straighten up door jamb nastys where hinges were.

Thats how Monday ended. Swung my knee right into a piece of the fixture climbing into the cabin once along in there so I was glad it was over.

Anybody ready for a refill? I ain't letting it go to waste, I gotta talk one more post then we can all bail and be caught up. If I am gonna chop by the weekend, its gonna start moving. Hang on-
 

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Discussion Starter · #249 ·
Today's first words: Hello, knee.:pain: Whew, actually just above ths knee thank goodness. It loosened up as the day went by but it said hello back a few times during the day.

Went in , turned on the tunes and gravitated to the bottom of the door to cowl gap. Realized the cowl side could still twist and that affects stuff. I began to worry about my progress a little, but did not go whack the idea box like Fonzie might have.

I took the left rocker loose and moved it forward to match the cowl then grabbed the quarter patch to move that front edge and buy more idea time. That worked!

Now ever so slightly victorious, I took it back to the A and sat there trying it back on and grinding off clearance for the rocker that somehow had mysteriously appeared.

Luckily, logic prevailed before I made a mess. Why is this hitting now? Oh! Earlier...

Between moving the rocker and moving the bend on the patch I had, guessing, spaced the B pillar bottoms 3" from the jig because thats where they both seemed comfy. But since we suspected the old rockers were installed too close together because of how it fits the frame... I nudged them out just past comfy. And tacked plates to the jig to hold them. Then I firmly bolted pillar to rocker.

Must be too far out. Patch no longer fits. OK, trim the plates. But to where?:confused:

Then came the aha...
 

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Discussion Starter · #250 ·
Fitting the chassis, they had cut the wheelwell sections out of the rockers. But I have them. I wonder if... yep these were all one long piece. If I reattach it squarely to the front section but add half an inch...

Since it is pinned by a bolt at the cowl, I should be able to swing the rocker into proper alignment like a minute hand laying flat. When I have it pointed directly at the stub at the tail, thats where it goes.

And that, in my best extrapolated theory, would position the B pillar bottom just right as intended. I went with it. Turns out my extra half inch nudge outward on each side was not needed. Things fell into place after I trimmed the jig plates to space the pillars out 2 1/2" from it.

Before trying the patch back on, I sprinted to the other side and got the cowl loose and spaced forward. Held the door up there a couple times just by hand and developed the suspicion that theres a tad of fore-aft matching of car sides to do. The angle meter was telling me when the windshield post tops match. They pivot on the dash attaching point so that affects hole alignment at cowl to rocker.

Did I mention this being a complex task? Dango dang man. Anyhow, it was Pontiac time then (4:55) so I hastily took pics and hauled butt across town in my blown Pontiac DD which washes all the chaos away. But I feel like I'm in good shape now. Thanks for your participation. Instead of homework, heres the neglected 59 job, painter's baby E9 track car, and dang if Footloose Jr hasn't gotten nice gaps all around a square Bronco that has a fiberglass body tub and everything else steel. That was not pretty, he did good to wade through that and win, wow!







Drive safe now.:welcome: Remember, long weekend ahead! Sip on the posts.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #251 ·
I said lithograph, lol. I think I meant mimeograph. Not sure when the weekend is gonna start but I am rea-dy!
 

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Discussion Starter · #252 ·
Tomorrow is "Friday". This morning I got the right hinge and post assembly together and should have gap for flush door. Should be able to hang a door after another hour to remove the old hinges and handle. The using cut rocker chunk for reference ain't enough on this side though because they were installed so out of place. I went to match sides on overall length of the body and had half inch variation. Shortened the right quarter to compensate, with a friction jack. As it turns out, I think I need to put that back where it was and lengthen the left instead. The clues are misleading. If I can get a right door in the hole, I believe I'll set the body on the chassis with no pan or floor braces. I'll feel ready to chop if the body width jives with the chassis and can put a couple braces in while the chassis aligns with rockers to where body mount bolts line up somewhat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #253 ·
At the end of this day I feel a little serious so cutting the crap and keeping it clean, I'll put it this way-

Right now is like the point in a fistfight with a stranger where you must decide to either give up or kill him.

I've tried the less invasive tactics such as using existing pillars and rockers and gently coaxing the quarters. Thats bringing a knife to a gunfight. I only see one course of action.

That is to discard B pillars and rockers. Gone, done. Next is to attach the quarters to each other with nothing in between on a free standing jig so that their comparative measurements can be matched up. Once the quarter skins match, I can proceed. Anything else is burning daylight. My best efforts at negotiating with the car have failed.

This was this morning, and I did put it back where it was. Stayed on right side, did not mess with left.



This must have been lunch because theres bolts and brackets galore holding the pillar bottom now. I eventually just reefed on it with my big channel locks and twisted the bejeepers outta that sucker to make it obey. Resistance is futile, right? Between that and drilling off old hinges like a madman, you guessed it, wrist.:pain: It was so humid safety glasses were a no-go and clothes were sweat soaked. I predict rusty handprints.



I spent most of the afternoon right there. Assembling hinge post and B pillar just as the other side, the hinges (in closed position) point too far outward. Driver's side points at the inside edge of the A pillar. In the first hour of drastic measures, I got them pointing at the middle of the A post. Second hour got them almost like the other side. The two hours were spent trying to twist the pillar and make it stay. And I won that battle.

Visible and audible frustration began after I run hurry ran to remove old hinges from the door. Despite my best caution, I snapped off another of my drill bits that I use a lot. That hit me like a redo does a painter because now theres no drilling that one off, either. Of course boss walks by while I'm gushing sweat and cussing about tools.

The rock always wins, hinge was off in a jif. When this door handle also fought me I did not hesitate just started cutting up latch and yanking until it was out then straightened the aftermath. I was in walking razor blade mode by then. The bull had entered the china shop at that point, so to speak.

Really really wanted to put up tools and sweep but if I had, the last one minute opportunity to place the door on the car would have been missed. Already had door cut for pockets and pockets bolted to hinges so I had to know...



Crap. If I line up the body line, I'm into the drip rail. Takepicspeewashhands zoom zoom to rush out the door and another zoom hour to get home... and yeah... Only way I can win is to go nuke and blow away everything not original plus everything original except skins, basically. I had to be at this point to see how bad it is and its just bad. If I use the front half of the left quarter as reference for the rear and vise versa, well that would be a start. There will be no top chop this week.
 

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Discussion Starter · #254 ·
About the 59 Catalina... far as we know, our guy flaked out because nobody knows where he is since Monday noon. Good ole chassis man started on the back bumper and exhaust outlets task. And I am on the one he made the floor for. :rolleyes: Fortunately, other capable hands are available and until we hear something we assume nothing about the guy. Experience lets us move past that situation fairly quick with another guy though. I know him as well as anybody and bet we don't see him again. Rod shop drama.

Will try to get some shots of bumper doings tomorrow.

Last one to leave, please put the cat out. No punch for me, I need water tonight. One day to go then I can have some rest.:):drunk::cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #255 ·
Messed up the pic post at the end and didn't catch it to edit. Meant to say if I could reference the rear half of one quarter and the front of the other, then I'd have a crappy reference but beats what I have now. Is there such thing as a thinking nightcap I could use? I got no idea where tomorrow will lead other than bed so I'm off to practice that now since I've made my correction. Thanks for dropping in.
 

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I will endevour to persevere
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IDJ,
I am just memory junking, but what about picking a matching point about mid panel on the quarter, and then see what your difference is front and rear. maybe use the window openings to measure from!

find a point to easily identify and duplicate by measurement and mark that point and use that for a reference. I would bet that the two quarters are quite different in length. You could then set the B pillar where it needs to be and then massage the quarter to fit the B pillar. Once you get both pillars equil and set the distance you need from the A pillar to the B then set the door.

Be careful of assumptions that the factory door is correct to the print as I am dealing with that on my T now!

Now for my disclaimer: Some or all parts of this idea were the result of purely random thoughts hodge podge, mixed, and strained thru a Leslie. :D:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #257 ·
IDJ,
I am just memory junking, but what about picking a matching point about mid panel on the quarter, and then see what your difference is front and rear. maybe use the window openings to measure from!

find a point to easily identify and duplicate by measurement and mark that point and use that for a reference. I would bet that the two quarters are quite different in length. You could then set the B pillar where it needs to be and then massage the quarter to fit the B pillar. Once you get both pillars equil and set the distance you need from the A pillar to the B then set the door.

Be careful of assumptions that the factory door is correct to the print as I am dealing with that on my T now!

Now for my disclaimer: Some or all parts of this idea were the result of purely random thoughts hodge podge, mixed, and strained thru a Leslie. :D:cool:
Doors are fairly equal in size on this one, heck they could swap sides I bet. I do appreciate your thoughts, sir. :cool:

This (what you said) is not only what I just finished explaining, its what I have been doing the whole time. Curvature at the front edge of the quarter can be easily manipulated to match door. I know the words get passed over a lot but yesterday there was even a picture with dots. Can't make it much more clear that I understand the importance of measuring. I did fix wrecks that had to be within a collective 3mm variation to get paid... for a decade and left with a fine reputation.

What I am suggesting is something like bolting the quarters together at the rear window panel flanges with a freestanding fixture sandwiched there. So that I can establish a center plane from which I can comparatively measure any given point. Once I have the big picture from that, I can determine what to correct and decide how. I would not mind having just rear window panel and cowl on the big fixture, with rockers and pan laying on the body dolly... and just going up to it with a quarter and door assembly and setting it on and connecting it then disassembling the fixture. All that has to be history before I cut the roof though.
 

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I will endevour to persevere
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IDJ,

I think I misunderstood what you were saying the other day. I thought it was a length problem. Actually the rear window flanges would be a great way of getting the start.. I do not envy your position but it sounds like you are doing good and getting it slowly together.

Today I am hobbling along as I must have had a wire wheel wire drop into my sock and into my shoe. Somehow the wire worked itself up to between my toes. It then embedded itself deep. My foot started hurting yesterday afternoon but I basically ignored it. Sometime during the night I woke with it hurting like He??. When I got up I had the wife look at the area as it was all read and puffy. She spotted the wire just barely visible. She thought it was small until she pulled it and sent me into the ceiling. The darn thing was over a 1/4 in in length and felt like it was an inch in diameter. It was completely embedded with just the tiniest of bit showing.. So now It already feels better. I am out to the shop to fit #2 door skin. It's the last thing to do before epoxy prime. After that final install and weld up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #259 ·
Well Rip I'm glad I only got mildly defensive because even in person they say I can be tough to understand. The wire story,:pain:, (tend that wound diligently, sir) reminded me of a time when my folks told me my cat had been sneezing a lot while I was at work. Poor thing had a blade of grass appear, protruding from a nostril. Dad gently dragged it out and it dragged out the ends of a couple more. He said if ever a cat had a readable facial expression, it was then. Of gratitude! Thats what ya get for eating grass to puke.

So y'all might have guessed that a cooler head would have a different story today. Not backing away from matching up quarters or fabbed rockers and maybe pillars, those things are still going to happen but instead of tearing it apart first thing I had a go at getting door in hole without being all analytical about it.



Well, I'll be dipped, it went. After I took the roof side loose.

I had measured the length of the door and compared and all, but not quite all. Have a closer look at it from the belt up.



You can put a straightedge along the door edge and instantly spot it but I had not done that. The top half of the door's perimeter is pitched forward, fairly severely.



No ideas how that happened, whether its damage or original but I reckon it mighta happened when the tree fell on it or whatever. So this is where I am now. Always feel better after I find something like that!

Took a couple hours to clean up and had a good briefing over the Cat job, as Footloose Sr turned it over to Footloose Jr now. Well they are both kinda on it now. Tape on the bumper is a tenative body color to paint edge, but the bumper may actually be split into like a face bar and valance arrangement. Tailpipe outlets are to be in the bumper tips and I have thrown in my design but the customer ought to decide, and we are due to have him in for a style choices making session.

 

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Discussion Starter · #260 ·
Wow what a contrast from yesterday to today. Clouds came in and that made being there easier for a start. Once I picked up tools and swept and conferred over projects and was writng all that in my log, two old friends snuck right up on me, one from behind. They had been by the junkyard.

One of them was an old boss / coworker and the other an old coworker and ten years ago we worked at the same place and hung out and rode ATVs and junk. Been awhile since I seen Eric. Doing damn good at returning to his old self after a stroke. Fixing cars again.

They saw the A, and the Cat. Old boss is a mopar muscle fan. So he looks at the Cat floor and trunk, pulls his head out and goes "Boy you've come a long way since you was painting for me!"

Painting for you? But I didn't...

Oh yeah, you did. Twenty years ago. Sure enough, when he moved to town and hired on doing bodywork at the fancy body shop close to my house I had just bought... I was in a downdraft bake Blowtherm with Sata NR95s and belt unit/ hood hosing Sikkens all day when it seemed like every other job was three stage. I recall guide coating a nasty note on his mud job once on a Pontiac door, and I backed it from the prep station into his stall while he was getting another job.

I had by default been thinking of the four years or so that I spent doing frame work and a regular crash mix at his shop... ten years ago. It occurred to me he was right... I have done a lot of stuff to a lot of cars around here for a long time. Its adding up.

Clean stall, door being crazy not me, seeing friends, talking out our mutual jobs with the good help, cool front blowing in, not sick, cars not broken, family good, billfold has something in it, four days off and no major crisis... but its raining...

I feel downright placid. Hope the rest of you do as well. :) Its about time.:sweat:

Thanks for coming. Tonight's brief, lame, and redundant feature starts in a few minutes so lets get ourselves a treat. Hobnob in the lobby until the music starts and smoke em if you got em. Whats that? Yes when my mood is dark its spiked punch bowl on card table, and when I feel alright its a lobby with full concessions that reeks of $7.50 buttered popcorn. Nothing but the imaginary best for my readers. If all goes well, I plan to add a wet bar and some of those fancy floor ashtrays with IDJ stamped in the sand every 15 minutes. So stick around, and smoke em if you got em.:pimp:
 
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