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my moms $30K in Health sciences fund lost $1 per share in the last two months. in other words, profit isnt guaranteed. there is a 69 "investment quality" SS 396 chevelle at a car lot down the street. just wondering.... i dont know how much it is but am guessing btwn $20 and $25 K. would it make more money in five years than the stock market
 

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:D


There is a article in today's Wall Street Journal about investing in automobiles instead of the market. I suggest you read it before doing anything RASH........


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okay i read it. thanks. buy the chevelle is what it says to me.

"Some of biggest gainers are fast American "muscle cars" from the 1960s and '70s, with prices up 70% in some cases in the past year -- and rare versions of early 1970s Plymouth Barracudas selling for more than $1 million"
 

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I remember a run up in price 10 - 15 years ago in muscle cars when a lot of non car people started buying. The prices then dropped when they started bailing out. True, prices have been on an upward trend of late but who knows in the future? The investment advice I've received is to be diversified and to not have all the eggs in one basket. In other words spread the investments (and risk) around.
 

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muscle car VS Stock Market

I had a few bucks in a several mutual funds that made good money for several years but then started a fast spiral down the crapper. While I still had a little gain I got out and started to look around but there was nothing that looked even a little bit promising except classic cars. So I suggested another old car to my wife and she bought the idea. When I got up off the floor I went shopping and bought my current ride (65 Bonn. 421 cpe) and so far havent't lost any money and am having a great time with the car. Not a recommendation, just relating what is working for me.
 

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advanced design said:
The investment advice I've received is to be diversified and to not have all the eggs in one basket. In other words spread the investments (and risk) around.
That is very good advice. It's sort of a running joke between my wife and I but when I bought my '32 pickup I did consider it to be a reasonable investment and I do include it as a part of our investment portfolio under the classification of "collectibles". But it is a rather small part of our total investments - just under 5%. Our dough is primarily in real estate (45%), mutual funds(35%), and a maxed out 403(b) pension (15%).

But the way I look at collectible cars is what other investment can provide you with day to day transportation, give you a non-stop adrenalin rush and return every dime you put into it (and possibly a little profit to boot) when you sell it. I don't know of a single mutual fund that does that.

It gets a little trickier when you start buying and hording them away in the hopes the market is going to go gangbusters. I'd say that's more like a crap shoot. If you get the right car(s) at the right price(s) and the market takes off, you could do well. But if you don't guess correctly - your investment could pretty much just gather dust.

And not to get tooooooo analytical, but I also have some concerns about how the world's future oil supply might effect the value of automobiles (collectibles and otherwise) 25-50 years down the line.
 

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I've had the same thoughts. For a comparison, look at the prices of restored model T's and other square black cars now to 10 - 15 years ago. Their prices have dropped as the market in general has diminished. There is less interest in those cars now. It will take some time but the same will eventually happen to the muscle cars. No I haven't completed a thorough analysis just observing trends over time.

That being said, you can't speed shift a 401K.
 
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One thing to consider is the liquidity(spelling?) of that car. A muscle/collector's car only has a value to certain paople. If the economy goes to crap, and you need money, are you going to be able to find that "right buyer" to pay the collector's price for it?

Another thing to consider is the car itself. It is onething to hild onto one that you have done all of the work on. You know what you have. It is something else to buy one that you don't really know anything about the history of. Will it styill look good 5 years from now, or will it's history show it's ugly head from poor workmanship?

Just something to think about.
 

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I have heard that investments in antiques including collectable cars go up as the stock market goes down. My only problem is I would hate to drop a rod on my retirement fund. :D
 

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Whoa kemo sabie....there is only one Chevelle thats worth buying 'finished' and thats the 1970 SS BB. No clones... and a convertable or El Camino is also good. Previous models are kuput and as an opeion maybe a 1971.

Most muscle cars are high priced and 20k for a 69 is extremely high priced....for that year. Your into the 1957-1956-1955 Chevy 2 door hardtops at that range.

Muscle cars are worth 'anything' if you can find a special interest buyer. Run of the mill used car lots figure they can get a good sellable trade in and a few bucks and walk away fat. But if its on a car lot it probably has questionable history else the owner would sell to to a muscle car follower.

Investment in cars is like the stock market...you got to know what is easy to sell and what has potiential for growing more valuable.
That means scarce models like Yenco Cameros or Vettes. It means convertables and nomads or 2 door hardtops and thats why stock brokers get rich they know what to buy. Seems to me your wondering if you should buy not what you would buy.
 

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My $.02 - horrible idea. There are a ton of investments that make better financial sense. Your question, in essence, is would it be a good idea to buy a muscle car as an investment towards my retirement? The answer is NO. Max out your 401K, max out a Roth IRA, buy a house, get some mutual funds, then buy a rental property.... etc etc etc.

For example, buying Harley Davidson stock in 1982 would be a much better investment than buying a softail in 1982.

The main idea with a car is can you find a buyer. I have a 65 Tempest that I can't give away. I invested money in the car and can't find a buyer at break even price.

If you are concerned about risk look at 30 yr T bills or bonds.

The market will kill a car buyer over and over consistently.

The only time classic cars are going to pay off for you is if you make some finds. An old lady with a 56 Chevy coupe in the barn with 7,500 miles on it... a dusty but perfect 63 split window vette... basically you have to find a car that you can buy for $15K, invest $5K and sell for $25K. Original, numbers matching, original condition phones are the only thing you can look at as an investment.
 

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....... There is a risk to reward ratio when investing. The more risk you are willing to assume then the more reward {in the case of some things the thing to say is 'potential reward'}. The more safety that you require then the less reward {I remember an old saying "liquidate to the sleeping point" , meaning if your investments are so risky that you can't sleep at night you've gone over the edge. Everyone's tolerance for risk is different}. When investing it is wise to put certain percentages of your money into different risk/reward investments. Meaning put say, 60% into 100% safe items {US Treasury obligations}, say 30% into high grade stocks, 10 % speculative items. {these are simple examples. I didn't even mention your personal resident {house}, Bonds and tons of other things. And yes I know about Enron. This is a rough example!}. OH, plus these percentages should change with your age and investment objectives. Meaning what is good for a 20 year old isn't good for a 80 year old. Now, in my honest opinion, if your Mom is worth a few million then by all means buy a collectible car {and this opens up a whole new topic in regards to 'what car to get'}. Because buying a '69 Chevelle {no matter which model} is a VERY speculative thing and shouldn't be more than a small percent of ones portfolio. If it wouldn't bother your Mom to lose $15 grand on the Chevelle, then buy it. What Paperairplane said was REALLY good advice {I'm not putting down other peoples advice, its just the way he said "horrible idea" that caught my eye}. There are also things to consider such as liquidity. Some items are non liquid {a car you need a buyer for, you might NOT be able to find a buyer when you want to sell it}. Liquid items like a stock can be sold with a phone call. There is ALWAYS a buyer {now I'm going to hear it from people who were around in October of 1987? :). Just open the newspaper and it'll tell you what your stock is going for. Plus different investments pay off in different ways. Meaning somethings pay interest or dividends. Some things the only thing you have are capital gains. Cars just have capital gains {but I DO like what Advanced Design said about "not being able to speed shift a 401K" ;) . Stocks {most of 'em} & bonds pay dividends......... Bill..... p.s oh I read the other day about how someone is making a fiberglass '69 Camaro. I didn't catch the price but having reproductions in fiberglass could change things {actually THOUSANDS of things could change things, thats WHY they call 'em speculative ;).....
 

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Discussion Starter #14
thanks. the car is gone now anyway and i will try to get a construction loan with the rest if i can. but back to cars. the tri fives have kinda fallen off but the older ones that used to be valuable have depreciated like a rock due to people wanting them dieing off. what is hot are only the muscle cars because that is what the majority of people my age want. around here anyways lots don't keep anything from the late 60's to 71 or so on their lots, i wouldn't buy any chevy that was not an SS, a mopar that wasn't an R/T etc. first gen camaros and now 66 chevelles are just stupid right now. it will be a long while i think till all of us dies or lose our licenses, but when that does happen their value will drop as well. thanks again,
btw my investment banker says devide up stocks like so: if i had 36,000 put
20 in S$P 500 large cap, 8 in s&p mid cap, 5 in s&p small cap, 3 in international fund, 5 in health services. he didn't mention real estate mutual funds like t rowe prices that have gone up 16% this year, but he did prefer Vanguard over troweprice. neigther charges much at all.
 

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....he probably didn't mention real estate because he doesn't have a real estate license and he's on commission ;)..... Just like when I was a stock broker and I didn't mention real estate..... ;) Bill...
 

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just for giggles i thought i'd pass this story along as it relates to collector cars for profit.
the guy that own merle norman cosmetics is a billionaire & has one of the finest collections on the planet. he owns the "20 grand".
anyway quite a few years back he was watching the prices on old ferarris(did i spell that right?)
they had steadily climbed to about 800k
his thinking was that when they reached a million he would buy one.
they did & he did. shortly after the prices dropped to around 600k. he was down 400k or so.
what does this guy do?????
he buys 10 more at an average of 600k.
4 yrs later the prices are back above 900k & he sells them all.
he had 7 million in 11 cars. he sold them for around 9.5 million & made 2.5 million.
it takes disposable $$$, the patience of a saint, & nerves of steel, just like any other money maker. lol. mel
 

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Buy real estate. Ca. real estate, property, etc. It's absolutely nuts here, homes that 2 years ago went for 110k now selling for 200k. Washington is supposed to be pricey, I would imagine there are parts of the country going through this now. Dan
 
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