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Discussion Starter #1
ok here is a short story of what i have been asking around on the car message sites.
This is off the olds message board.
Drink2mny is my screen name there.

Well I don't know for sure if it is my car. But it is a dam close similarity.

the white car in the upper portion of the poster is a '64.
When looking at it. It seems to have a mirror on the passenger side. I haven't seen a '64 cutlass have a passenger mirror, and I have been looking into these cars for as long as I have owned mine. 10 Years..

I found this guy selling this poster on ebay it is supposed to be in a limited set of 500 made.
I will try to attach a photo of my olds in the normal picture and one with it flipped.
The flipped version looks so dam close to what is on the poster..

If it is, do any of you guys think I have a leg to stand on with going to my legal office with this.
I was still going to bid and get the poster to get a better look at it.
you can search for it on ebay by typing 64 olds poster.

The top is the original picture
then the poster
then a flipped picture of my car that I did to show how close it looks.
This picuture has been on my website since '98.. Check my sig




 

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Tazz
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Are you wanting this guy to pay you for unautherized use of a picture of a car your not even sure is your car? That would be a tough one to get through the copurts. Good luck, I hope you make him pay!!!


Tazz


Rat Rods Rule!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This is what he emailed me when I asked for a closer pic

I posted this is the olds board

IT IS MY CAR. Flipped and added a mirror
What '64 has wipers that goes from left to right?????

This is his email to me

It was musclecars.com. Seemed like a pretty generic site. Here's a detail attached.

That isn't even a real site it goes to a car sales site..

This is where the original post is..
http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14676&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

would you guys be pissed or just let it go???
 

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yeah, i'm sure it (yours) is the only white cutlass in the states. maybe the world. you should go to his house and let the air out of his tires.:thumbup:

I'd be proud to have someone want to put my car in a poster. if i could get a free copy that is. i'd let it go for that.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
crazy larry said:
yeah, i'm sure it (yours) is the only white cutlass in the states. maybe the world. you should go to his house and let the air out of his tires.:thumbup:

I'd be proud to have someone want to put my car in a poster. if i could get a free copy that is. i'd let it go for that.
You know I thought about asking for a free poster.
then got upset after seeing it doesn't even look right.
The wipers the wrong way and the faked driver side mirror made with crayola.

And mine is pretty much the only 2 door post white '64 442 on the net:thumbup:
 

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sounds like you have a better deal than some crappy reversed image poster. screw him. and his poster.:thumbup:

it is a nice looking car.:cool:

lately, i've gotten into a NO STRESS mode.( i think i'll blame it on kf.)..... don't know why, but i don't think i would stress over this. something along the line of choosing your battles....
 

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Move It On Over!
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It's definitely your car. You can tell by the identical shading going on towards the front of the quarter panel as well as the exact match of reflections on the chrome of the front bumper. The shading could be a coincidence, but I think it would be nearly impossible to have the exact reflections on the chrome.

A picture or any other work is copyright even without the copyright (c) mark. The work must specifically state it is for the Public Domain if it is for the Public Domain. You could get him on copyright infringements. But, you are in one state and he is probably in another. Therefore, you would need one or more lawyers on the bar of both states. Then, you would have to go through the whole ordeal of building the case and it will cost lots of money.

I've been through this before with some source code to a program I wrote that was stolen, the @#$*&# took my name off the documentation and everywhere else and put his name in its place! Then, to top it off, he claimed I stole the code from him! I wanted to get my friends together and charter a bus and get the $&**(&#$*(. But, that was just as expensive as hiring a lawyer, so I just went around being a real grouch for about a year. Those who knew me knew the truth and that was the most important thing to me.

What's the best thing to do? I don't know. Maybe complain to eBay. Maybe ask for a one-time commision. Or just forget about except for being a grouch for about a year! Maybe something bad will happen to the guy (or something already has) and he will live his life in ruin...
 

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I wanted an egg-salad sandwich
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The image is of yours, even if it is posted on every website in the world, he needs your consent to use it (especially if the use is for sale) I couldnt see what his response was back to you, but you ARE clearly in the right. I own many websites, and have had issues with people taking my images (hey isnt that how I found this website HRK?).
You have several course of action.
You can talk to him, and make him pay you for use of the image.
You can get a lawyer to write him a cease and desist about using your image for any future posters (this probably cost 200$)
You can also sue him for damages and profits for the use (this would require court and probably be the most costly.
Since the image is on Ebay, you can tell ebay that he used the image illegaly. They will hopefully shut the auction down, and you can do this anytime he trys to sell that image. (I would call ebay, and not rely on email)

It is cool that he used your car for the poster, but I understand how you'd be mad. Its one of those things you either just have to forget or go whole hog and pursue...

:evil:
GLuck

I just checked out his ebay listing, and other stuff he has for sale..I also noted on your cutlass board someone else had this happen...


he also has
PLEASE NOTE: There is a "SAMPLE" watermark on the photo to discourage bootleggers. It does not appear on the print!
on his page...
What a jerk! stealin the image is okay for him, but not you!!
This seems to be his lively hood, I'd try to shut him down

Or start a campaign. using google "image" search I bet you can find the majority of pictures he is using, why not start emailing everyone he is ripping off. Start getting everyone to campaign him, I noticed that he shut down his Ebay store all ready
contact EBAY too!!

Any body that owns a car should check out his current listings
make sure this guy isnt ripping you off too!
http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZoldschoolmusclecars1QQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ1

Oh great! now im mad too!
:evil:
Gluck
 

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Wow, how can I get my car on a poster? WGASA if the guy makes a few bucks on it? I guess all the guys that go to a Super Chevy Show and have their picture show up in the magazine get their panties in a bunch and sue! Some of those pictures have 2-300 cars in them so I doubt they get releases from every car owner and Super Chevy makes a...gasp ..."profit"!
 

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I wanted an egg-salad sandwich
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the big deal is that this guy used a photo that somebody else owned, without his premission.

If you take a photo of my car at a car show and publish in a mag without my permission thats fine (i'd want to know so I could buy the mag)

it is fine to use your own shots of somebodys car for $$

it is not fine to make a profit of someone elses photo with out cutting them in..

see the difference??


ps I actually talked to "oldskoolraj" he was severley misinformed, he is no longer.
1964 im sure if you ask him for a poster or tell him to take it down, he would...
 

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Administrator
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I don't think that you have much of a case............You posted a picture on the internet..............for anyone to go ahead and download.
 

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Got Ouzo for touzo
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Ah, yes Poncho up here he may not have a case. BUT, them yanks do like to sue each other:mwink:

If I were you, I'd let it go. Just knowing your car is nice enough to be even considered for a poster would be enough for this guy. That said, I'm a pretty simple guy!


bonuts
 

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Just one of the guys
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I'd say let it go. Get a free poster if possible. Be proud your car is on a poster. AND brag to your friends that your car is on a poster. Too many people sue others nowadays and that makes it rough for us that really want to stick it to somebody. LOL!!!:D
 

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Im trying to have an idea!
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Some of those other cars seems familiar. Id atleast email the guy and ask "whatz up wit dat" to see what kinda response you get. But sueing him is kinda drastic, he should have asked some guys for a good pic and put there name somewhere on the poster. Id let him know whats on your mind first.

oldspower for life *chicano voice*
 

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I wanted an egg-salad sandwich
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Let me try and explain this for ALL so that everyone in all of the AMERICAS understands..

OLDS took a photo of his car. It is OLDS photo, he owns ALL rights to that photo. Even if OLDS posts his photo on a website he still OWNS that photo. Just because something is on the web does not mean you can take it and reproduce it without permission. When I take peoples photos to "photochop" them, that technically is illegal, but I am doing it for personal use. Even if I alter the photo, it is still not okay, because I never obtained the proper permission. The web is so massive however that prosecuting all offenders is pointless. This is very similar to copying cd's to cassette, that is illegal, the music company owns that music and you dont have permission to copy it. however since that is entirely ridiculious notion to prosecute, they only go after people who make copies and then sell them. Now if you have your own camera, and you photograph OLDs car in some kind of public event or on the street (note that I said public) you own that photo and you can do whatever you want to it, and sell it or whatever. OLDS could possibly sue, because he never gave permission to use his car, but if the car was shot in a public area, he probably would not win. Most photographers when they shoot stuff in public, will get a release from the owner, but it is not required, only a legal move. This is why the papparazi can never be stopped, it is perfectly legal for them to stand around on street corners and snap celebrities on the street and shopping etc..

I posted earlier, that I talked to the guy involved in this, He understands his mistakes now, and will most likely do whatever OLDS wants him to do (take the poster down or give him a free one)

:evil:
Gluck
 

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Hotrodders.com Administrator
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I'm not a lawyer, but I think crazygutgut just nailed it.

A photograph is like a work of art. If you sit on your roof, and paint your neighborhood, complete with houses and cars, then you own the rights to that painting, not the homeowners or car-owners. If you write an article or book about someone, then you own the rights to that article or book, not that person. In this sense, a camera is considered an artistic tool, just like a paintbrush or a pen.

If he violated other laws to obtain the picture (trespassing, etc.), then it's a whole different story.

The web is a breeding-grounds for this sort of thing, because while the law is clear, the enforcement is impractical. We used to be really careful about this sort of thing, and even got written clearances from companies before posting pics of their products. Turned out to be impractical and time-consuming; now we just clear rights when we think it would be reasonably prudent.

To protect our massive photo album from this sort of thing happening though, we watermark our photos with "Hotrodders.com". It's ugly in some pics, but, in most cases, it does legally prevent something like the above from happening. It also means our members' photos won't show up on another board as some dishonest guy's newest "project".
 

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poncho62 said:
I don't think that you have much of a case............You posted a picture on the internet..............for anyone to go ahead and download.
Sorry, no, that's not the case here at all. Posting a picture on the Internet does indeed imply permission to download it, because otherwise it could not be viewed. A browser doesn't work on magic; it has to download a copy of text, images, the html that makes up a web page, in order for a person to view that work. That implied permission to make a copy to view does not extend to making additional copies to use elsewhere. It does not imply any permission to publish.

Posting your photos in your journal means you want people to be able to view them. You are publishing them at that point. You are not placing them in the public domain and you are not granting permission for them to be published by others, whether on another website or on tee shirts, posters and bumper stickers. The fact that you published your photos on the Internet does not mean that you have abandoned ownership.

It is just plain dumb for anyone to attempt any commercial operation based on assumptions about rights and permissions regarding images, sounds or text. For some reason, the links given resulted in a '404' for me, so I haven't seen the car or the poster. If the photo is that easily recognized in the poster, it is highly unlikely that it would be considered a transformative work. That places it squarely in the cross-hairs of what international copyright law seeks to prevent, which is the unauthorized commercial exploitation of copyright owners.

For a similar case, see " Creative Commons Licenses Enforced in Dutch Court" at http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/5823
 
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