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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There's lots of contradicting info out here, even in Transgo's shift kits.

I'm a little slow. This all started years ago, around 2000 when I bought an 87 S10 with a stock 350, Holley 670 Projection, ......
One of the 1st things I did was install an Art Carr kit in it, which I'm undoing, attached file.

In about 2002 I built a 383, which made 310 hp @ 5,300 - 371 ft-lbs @ 3,200 at the rear wheels on the chassis dyno, and started buying parts to rebuild the 87 Aux VB 700r4.

Back then I bought a bunch of parts from Makco, PAC, Bowtie Overdrives, Sonnax, .......
ALTO HP Master Kit, 700-R4 w/ Red Eagle Friction & Kolene Steels
Torque Drive products input drum and reaction shell
5 pinion planets, front appears to be GM, rear is defiantly aftermarket
Superior servos, Hydraulic Lock-Up Package (Superior K017 ), Shift Point Package (Superior K018 )
Just about every Sonnax part that was available
Kevlar wide band

I also bought a cheap Dacco HD-7730 2300-2500 Stall converter back then, which I just installed last spring. Just as I was starting to enjoy it something happen. I'm guessing the converter clutch fell apart. It quit locking up and then I lost all but 1st and it was slipping.

After I got this tore down, I noticed NEW parts where available :)
So, I bought them, lots of shopping around, eBay, amazon, rockauto, ........ ;
Sonnax 2nd Gear Super Hold Servo Kit, 4th Gear Super Hold Dual Servo Kit, 2.84 Ratio Input Carrier Kit, Billet Forward Clutch Piston (they say doesn't work with their Smart-Tech Input Housing), Smart-Tech Input Housing Kit with Heavy Duty Input Shaft, SmartShell® Heavy Duty Reaction Shell Kit, both L-K & M-K Accumulator Valve Train Kits, Throttle Valve Plunger Valve Kit 77966-94MK
Lots of new ACDelco parts, 5 pinion rear planet 24228763, Overrun Clutch Spring 24206085, Internal Reaction Gear Support 24225931, Steel Low and Reverse Clutch Plate Kit 8687996, ...... reverse input turbulator steels (the Alto Kolene turbulators are NLA), 24241477 Sprag Assembly, 24221190 Shell Kit, 3rd accumulator check 8634400
Alto 057757DX G3 3-4 Clutch PowerPack, 057758 Reverse Input Drum Saver, wide carbon band
Superior 3-4 Clutch Rapid Relief Valve (Superior K070 )
200/325/325-4L Direct drum front bushing, thanks Crosley
350 pump bearing, ACDelco 9436851
Both Transgo kits, 700-2&3, SK 700
Both Superior kits, 700-R4 Kit (Superior K700-R4 ), TransAction Kit (Fairbanks 70015 )
Adapt-a-case center support, that was fun. Being a Tool and Die Maker, I was not happy with their work, so I machined the new center support that came in the ACDelco 8687996 kit.
Teckpak Reverse Piston Capsule
Molded piston kit
A bunch of other Kolene 3-4 steels trying to get the Alto Red Eagle kit to work, which I later read was pointless to use Red Eagles in my street truck.
Transgo 700 PKH pump rings, 7-4-V 3-4 shift valve
just about every 2nd/4th inner and outer accumulator spring I could find

Other parts I've forgotten to list

It's basically together, clearances set to ATSG specs except for the 3-4 where I used the Alto G3 3-4 Clutch PowerPack, shimmed the band anchor pin to 0.015" of the case, and I'm debating on what to do with body. Because of the Art Carr kit, I also bought Transgo's separator plate because I'm sure some holes are TOO BIG.

After some reading, thanks to Dana, I ordered the newer Viton output shaft seal, stock steels for the forward and overrun and Borg Warner clutches for the forward, overrun, reverse, and low/reverse clutches.
More reading, I need to drill out the Teckpak Reverse Piston Capsule, bought a full Alto HEG friction kit, Transgo 7-300, a ACDelco 8648959 .297 low/reverse/intermediate boost valve (because Transgo's machining is too sloppy), Transgo SK700-JR, Ratio Tek RT-700R4-HD.
Debating on pulling this 85 700 pan off to see if it has any VB pieces I can steal, perhaps an "A" accumulator valve, something tell me it won't have one being a Camaro/Firebird tail shaft housing, MTV up valve spring.

Also debating installing the Transgo 7-CS kit, perhaps 1/2 the springs, even though I'm using the boost springs in the Sonnax input drum and my current cam/combo starts falling off @ 5300, removing the Superior 3-4 Clutch Rapid Relief Valve that I've already installed.

Don't really want to go drilling holes in the VB or have full manual. So, that leaves me with the Transgo Sr kit, Fairbanks, and Superior kits.
Which, the more reading I do, I've wasted more money on springs that I do not want to use.
3-2 control valve, Transgo spring is too long, too stiff, making 3-2 kickdown near impossible?
MTV up valve, Art Carr had me remove, leave it out, Transgo spring, or find a stock one?
MTV down valve, Superior's is a lot stiffer
B accumulator valve, replace with Sonnax valve, Transgo spring?
Line Bias valve, block, Transgo spring?

Had to remove about 1/8" off the Sonnax servo pin to get me close to the min 0.075" spec, did that on the cnc lathe and turned a 5mm radius.

I have a custom lockup, N2O, thrust bearing, converter ordered, 3500 iirc, should be on the build bench in about 2 weeks.

any advice as to feed/release holes, clutch packs, clearances, blocking or inverting 3-4 accumulator, forward acc spring, 2nd acc spring, inner acc springs, to use or not to use the Sonnax Servo Release Check Valve Kit (77701-076), pinless pistons .....

The orificed cup plug Art Carr had me install in the 2nd accumulator is coming out.

The 85 700 may become a backup with all these extra spare parts I have.

I've made a few posts in other forums, hopping someone experienced would pop in with some advice
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Ratio Tek RT-700R4-HD

In case anyone was wondering whats all in a Ratio Tek RT-700R4-HD ;)

I also have a Transgo 4L60E pdf that's too big to upload :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm trying to stay away from using any kits all together, most of the shift kit, stiffer, longer, springs are just going to cause problems I didn't have, just looking for some recommended hole sizes for my application and perhaps an accumulator spring or 2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
May have confused you with information or too many part numbers and not enough pictures.
Should have just listened and taken pictures of what I did/have done, posted lots of pictures, and not listed all the stuff I've wasted money on.

Transgo's contradictory information
SK700-Jr NEED these return springs

7-CS do not reinstall them

Sonnax even provided with the drum
Mine didn't have them. The 3-4 clutch pack had lots of clearance when I tore it down. Could have been the cause of my truck starting to loose power at 5300.

Here's a reman pump, 13 vane slide and 10 vane rotor. If you look, the pickup and pressure sides are actually connected 6 times during 1 revolution of the rotor. And people are recommending to build them that way.


Here's my new center support, machined to fit the Apapt A Case ring









The shell kit, I got for cheap, the has the correct thrust bearing reaction shaft






When Sonnax says thanks 



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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes it would have been cheaper for me to call someone and have them build one for me. At least then I'd have someone other than myself to kick when it didn't make 2 - ¼ mile passes on the gas

Just finished ripping it apart to swap out the Red Eagle clutches for HEG"a, kept the turbulator steels in the reverse input and low/reverse, kolene steels in the forward and overrun. Installed the Transgo High Rev clutch springs. Kept the G3"a and Lindered steels in the 3-4 along with the release springs and the Superior rapid release in the Sonnax drum. And didn't forget to swap out the plastic output shaft seal for the Viton one while I was in there.

ACDelco, 1 year only, Corvette, made in the USA, paid less than a new one from Mexico


The bushing and bearing that get rid of a ton of play between the drum and shell


I don't want the neck snapping, tire barking at low throttle like I had with the Art Carr kit.

I'm basically back to pondering on the valve body and feed holes.



I'll make a list of what I have used or am planning on using. A lots of the stuff I bought 14 years ago is not being used unless it was from Sonnax.



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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Been 3 weeks since I 1st contacted Dana @ Pro Built, 1 week since I placed an order for his shift kit. He contacted me today to confirm some stuff :)

Here's the list I have compiled.
* = Haven't used, unsure, don't plan on using, ........

ACDelco;
5 pinion rear planet 24228763
Overrun Clutch Spring 24206085
Internal Reaction Gear Support 24225931
Steel Low and Reverse Clutch Plate Kit 8687996
reverse input turbulator steels 24205267
Sprag Assembly 24241477
Shell Kit 24221190
3rd accumulator check 8634400
350 pump bearing 9436851
.297 low/reverse/intermediate boost valve 8648959
THM 400 intermediate band spring number 8623489 being sold as the upgraded servo return spring
Dual Feed Turbine Shaft Check Valve 8685839
2nd OE Corvette servo cushion spring 8681195

Sonnax;
4L60 - Sonnax
2nd Gear Super Hold Servo Kit 77911-03K
4th Gear Super Hold Dual Servo Kit 77767K
2.84 Ratio Input Carrier Kit 77284-K
Smart-Tech Input Housing Kit with Heavy Duty Input Shaft 77733-10K
SmartShell® Heavy Duty Reaction Shell Kit 77749-02K
1-2 or 3-4 Accumulator Spring 74926
Enhanced Performance Accumulator Spring 77704S
Pinless Accumulator Piston Kit 77998-03K
Bearing Kit SBK-G12
Wide Reaction Sun Gear Bushing 77010-01
Pump Slide Pivot Pin 65797
Pump Slide Spring 77722-01K
TV Boost Valve Kit 77917-500
Elevated Pressure Main Pressure Regulator Spring 77917-08
Stator Support Shaft Kit 77918S-K
TCC Apply Valve Kit 77805-K
TV Plunger Spring 77968-01K
* Servo Release Check Valve Kit 77701-076
* TCC Solenoid Snout Kit 77942-01K
* Checkball 10000-08 Imidized Plastic
* Throttle Valve Plunger Valve Kit 77966-94MK Prevents forced 4-3 kickdown below three-quarter throttle
* Shortened TV Link 77872-01
* Accumulator Valve Train Kit 77777L-K Medium Weight Cars
* Accumulator Valve Train Kit 77777M-K Heavy Vehicles
* The Sure Cure® Kit SC-4L60
* Alto Extra Wide Intermediate Band 77700-01K Kevlar
* Reverse Boost Valve Kit K77898
* Billet Forward Clutch Piston 77764-01

Alto;
057757DX G3 3-4 Clutch PowerPack
057758 Reverse Input Drum Saver
wide carbon band
HEG frictions reverse input, overrun, forward, low/reverse
Kolene steels overrun, forward

Transgo;
7-CS high rev clutch spring kit
700 PKH pump rings
700-P replacement Separator plate
* 7-4-V max throttle 3-4 shift valve
* SK 700-JR
* SK 700
* 700-2&3

Superior;
Hydraulic Lock-Up Package (Superior K017 )
Shift Point Package (Superior K018 )
3-4 Clutch Rapid Relief Valve (Superior K070 )
700-R4, 4L60, 4L60-E 4th Gear Servo Return Spring (Superior K004 )
* 700-R4 Kit (Superior K700-R4 )
* TransAction Kit (Fairbanks 70015 )
* 700-R4/4L60-E Super Servo (Superior K012)
* 4L60/4L60-E Super Servo 4th apply piston & cover (Superior K034 )

Adapt-a-case;
Heavy-duty center support and case saver A74761DAC

Misc;
54046AA 200/325/325-4L Direct drum front bushing
Viton input shaft to output shaft seal
* 1-2, 3-4 Accumulator spring, white
* 1-2, 3-4 Accumulator spring, purple
* Forward & 1-2 Accumulator Spring, red
* D74926AA Spring, 4L60E 1-2 and 3-4 Accum(Orange)(Inner) ACDelco 8685655
* D74926BA Spring, 4L60E 1-2 and 3-4 Accum (Pink)(Inner) ACDelco 8685656
* D74926F Spring, 700R4/4L60E 1-2 and 3-4 Accum (No Color)(Inner) ACDelco 8684431
* Ratio Tek 700R4-HD valve body kit

Took 2 reman and a good used one to get a pump built that didn't have too much clearance.
I'm going to find a way to machine these on the cnc lathe someday.
Offsetting for that pump pocket is my current issue, only having a 6" 4 jaw chuck.

Where I bought the high dollar Sonnax stuff
TH700R4 4L60 | GM Products | TCS Performance Products

GEARS Magazine - May 1997

Don't care for Bow Tie Overdrive or PATC.
Pro-Built Automatics however.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
700 Questions

I’ve read a lot about the accumulator valve.
Some say “B” is the largest, some “A”
B, A, N, M, L, K, and F largest to smallest
Letter codes A and N will provide the firmest shift while letter M provides excellent overall operation in passenger vehicles, trucks, and some low geared sports cars. Letters K, F, B should not be used in performance or heavy duty applications.

Any clue as to which one may be in an 85 F-body trans? I currently have a "B" and have read a few places that that's not the one I should use.

The Sonnax 2nd servo
Sonnax instructions say to use the OE cushion spring and the 2nd OE Corvette cushion spring (8681195) to cushion the 1-2 shift and reduce the 3-2 downshift clunk.
The Ratio Tek kit comes with 2 (brown & orange) that go in the same place as that 2nd Corvette cushion spring. Anyone see a reason why those couldn't be used in place of the 2nd Corvette cushion spring?
I believe my cushion is whatever came in the Art Carr kit. Which iirc is stiffer than OE. Just like the ones in the Transgo and Superior shift kits.

More on this Ratio Tek kit.
They have a 2nd Blue Inner Pressure regulator spring.
Any reason not to install that inside the Sonnax elevated Pressure regulator spring?

A Yellow TV inner "bumper" spring.
Any reason not to install it inside the Sonnax TV spring? Other than it wont fit if you're using the Transgo spacer.

Most of the remaining pieces I have no interest in. Like the new 2nd accumulator plate looks to be as dumb as Art Carr's orificed cup plug. Except maybe the White line bias valve spring if I don't use one on the Transgo springs.
To my knowledge, I've never experienced a stuck TV valve. Didn't even have a tapered (fix) spring on it. So I see no real need for one the fancy Transgo TV valves.
 

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This is the problem you get when you try to mix and match parts from different kits.
The accumulator is controlled by three things: volume, flow, and spring. You have an orifice size that determines flow, the piston size that determines volume and a spring that works against the volume with pressure.
You need to know what the different kits do to change pressure, restrictions, Spring rate and pistons. Then you need to be able to calculate what your mods will do to the timing and pressures beyond the accumulator. That will tell you what your changes will do to the shift timing and the speed of application.

There is one good way to "soften" the shift without causing bad effects - add more clutches. Changing or modifying accumulators is not easy to do. When I first started working on the Ford C4 to make it a real performance transmission I started with the power and oil flow diagrams and made one change at a time and tested it. I had some other builders working with me at first and we made some real progress. Doing it alone is a big task. The folks who put those kits together do a lot of R & D before they release them to the public - some take shortcuts and others don't. They will "work around" solutions that are above the average car nut to solve problems within the valve body that could better be solved with a drill in a clutch drum. (an example of this is using stronger springs to keep a clutch pack from applying at high rpm when a "better" solution is to drill a small hole in the bottom outside diameter of the drum to allow the oil a place to go under the centrifugal pressures of high rpm).
Pick a single kit and use it. The chances are higher that using things from different kits will leave you with a transmission that won't work, will wear fast, or you will never be satisfied with than they are of you improving on any of the results from a single kit.

If you are experienced enough with the transmission you are working on to determine the results of mix-n-match use of the kits you wouldn't be using them in the first place. When I modify a C4 I don't use kits or parts of kits. I make my own springs and modify what is there to accomplish the changes I want. I have swapped bushings for needle bearings and purchased billet planet assemblies and other stronger parts when the application demands it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The accumulators in the 4L60 are also controlled by the accumulator valve. Which provides fluid to the same side as the spring. Having the ability to increase or decrease the force to move the accumulator piston.

Drilling a hole in a piston or the outer wall of the cylinder is easy enough, if you have access to that knowledge. The size of that hole and how much to increase the feed to that piston/cylinder to overcome the leak you just made. Not having that, it's easier to install stiffer springs and increase fluid apply pressure.
I have the hydraulic technicians manual, haven't spent a lot of hours studying it. Perhaps I should bring it to work and study it in my down time.
A nice high dollar spring tester would be real handy too

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Use a 1/32" drill and you don't need to supply extra fluid to apply but it will let centrifugal force push any remaining oil out of the drum. You will need to drill it in the "bottom" of the drum, below the sealing ring when the piston is seated. You should drill it back and out away from the piston at about a 60 degree angle. One hole is all you need.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sure hope you aren't trying to reinvent the wheel.
Nope, no wheel. Just a 4 speed, overdrive automatic transmission that's apparently been dragging the 3-4 clutches, soon to get a new power plant, and a shot of N2O

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I am surprised. You did do a lot of C-4 transmission work as in performance builds?
Surprised? As in?

I have built many performance builds in not only C4, but C6, 727, 904, 350, 400.
I have built numerous clutchflites, turboflites.
Ever hear of John Petrie?

Aaaaaaaaaayup.
 
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