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Discussion Starter #1
does anyone else think that lowering the compression down to 8to1 and use a 390 cfm carb on the restrictor plate races be better than running the plate at all? they want to reduce hp with the plate but this way there only gonna get so much.
 

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They already do something like that..It is called Busch Series..

Sam
 

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I used to care about NASCAR but now that they've let Toyota in (don't get me wrong, I own one) as well as mandate that every car be exactly alike........ what's the point of racing? NASCAR should only have American designed cars racing, rice burners need not apply. Even my son, the most die hard NASCAR fan ever (he proposed to his wife on the start finish line at Lowe's Motor Speedway) is beginning to question his thinking. NASCAR racing is now nothing more than a pit stop competition, and who the blazes cares about that.
 

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I have no problem with Toyota.....I think they will show the American companies that they had better smarten up..................What I hate about NASCAR, is the lack of individuality.................Like Centerline says, they are all basically the same, even the pretty boy drivers are all the same........and that spells....BORING to me.

They have no choice but to run the restricter plate, or do something to lower the speeds..............The tracks just are not built for 230mph.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
OneMoreTime said:
They already do something like that..It is called Busch Series..

Sam
i forgot to say the cup series, i dont think the busch series runs a 390 cfm, the arca series does
 

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Discussion Starter #6
poncho62 said:
I have no problem with Toyota.....I think they will show the American companies that they had better smarten up..................What I hate about NASCAR, is the lack of individuality.................Like Centerline says, they are all basically the same, even the pretty boy drivers are all the same........and that spells....BORING to me.

They have no choice but to run the restricter plate, or do something to lower the speeds..............The tracks just are not built for 230mph.

i agree but the drivers say the plate isnt safe because it keeps them all bunched up on the track i dont see why lower compression lower cfm motors wouldnt do it and raise the rear spoiler and flatten the nose of the car more. ive always thought this even 10 years ago when it was something to watch i just wondered what everybody else thinks about my solution
 

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the more they restrict the engines, the more boring the racing gets. I think Dale Sr. was right on when he said lets dirty up the aerodynamics, let the engines be unrestricted, and go racing. Let the bad air slow the cars down but have enough power to drive out of something.
And I think it would be better if they went back to the spirit 0f the 60s. You would have to run a basically stock car. Drive wheels on the same end as the production cars with the same basic engine and drive train the car came with.
 

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NASCAR has sucked since the early 70s. Who cares what they do now? It's an entertainment production, just like pro "rasslin".

Impalas, Galaxies, Chargers, Big Blocks, DOT numbers on the tires, cars that actually started their life on a production line.......

That was STOCK CAR racing.
 

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How can they call it "Stock car" racing? Nothing is stock, and now, so that Toyota can come play, they have the "car of tomorrow". Go to your local Chevy, Ford, Dodge (or now Toyota) dealer and ask to test drive one of the cars, just like they use in NASCAR. The similarity ends with the manufacturers logo decals on the race car.

Compared to racing back in the 60's and 70's, this SUCKS! Don't get me started............oops, you already did!
 

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i think they need to put speed bump at the finish line to slow them down, :evil: o, come on, its a joke, and so is nascar
 

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The downfall of NASCAR started when they banned the SOHC Ford motor before it even had a chance. If one of the big three spends a ton of $ to develope a motor and...

Sorry, it just got under my skin.
 

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They could run a rear gear that would limit top speeds, if you want to push it for that little bit more, you run the risk of blowing it up.
NA$CAR is now and has been for quite a while, "entertainment" it is all about the show and the personalities. :rolleyes:
I wouldn't mind so much about Toyota being in NA$CAR except they are bringing in big corporate money and buying people from other teams. Toyota denies it but explain how Micheal Waltrip can own a three car team, build a new shop, and hire enough people to field three teams. :confused:
 

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I got into NASCAR back in the 70's. The races that got shown on TV were usually tapes of a race that happened 3 weeks earlier. It sucked because of that, but it was still fun. It was fun because the cars I saw in the race looked like the cars at the dealership. It was fun because you had to hope your driver and car had whatever setup was going to give him an edge. Race on Sunday, sell on Monday was for real.

I still watch a race or two, but it's not the same. I hear people talking about their favorite car or team or driver and they have no idea about the mechanical aspects of the cars. They are just victims of the corporate hype. Now, it seems as if NASCAR is a 3 hour reality show. And now TOYOTA! Now what do the first two letters of NASCAR stand for? Hmmmm... North American! The least they could do is change the damn name. Like maybe WUSS. World United Stockcar Show.
 

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The Toyota Camry is built in america by americans. Sounds good enough to me. Mikey can probably afford five teams. He has been in cup for almost 15 years, he is one of the most popular drivers and his annual income (from all sources) is probably 15-20 M. Anyway I'm not defending Toyota but I think the sport has just evolved faster than it's diehard fans. I have been diehard since 87 and I have a real hard time with the new fans who think they have this sport figured out thanks to BP and the crew at FOX! Fox has turned NASCAR into a gong show and really cheapened things up.

If you really watch these guys you know who can drive and who is just in good equipment. Besides most of these guys drove the wheels of of a lot of other cars before making it to the show. Lots of talent out there. I still follow cup but I have had a lot of fun watching the trucks lately. Sad to say but since Earnhardt died the sport just hasn't been the same.

Anyway I know who the true fans are when I invite the guys to come to the local track and help me with my stock car and they are always too busy. They'd rather race on thier PC's than come and expierience the real thing. Racing is about the sights, smells, and speed, not just who has the nicest paint job.
 

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I think Nascar has hit a plateau of fans. Every things in this world can get so big that it's begins folding on itself due to lack of resources to "feed the beast". Toyota I have no problem with but the cars and drivers, as well as the sponsor money and the one guy get's to call all the shot's doesn't have a care in the worls about the future beyond his own.

The cars need enough power to separate the drivers from each other. seperates the mech, designers, and everything else too. Technology has improved well enough in the 20 years that these cars all drive the same, asided from having the spring and shock packages identical so handle is the same they are just too damn easy to maneuver. While being athlete's is not my concern right now, it's can't be hard to drive a car where it's "flat to the floor till you hit a wall of air", Without pedal modulations you don't have to learn any car control techniques. I honestly think anybody in this world with minimal training could crawl into one of those cars and run at the back at least. It's like when you first learned to drive. It felt really weird at first but it's a feeling you weren't used to and most people can keep up with min hwy traffic within a few miles driving time. Cookie cutter race tracks and pretty faces with different colored cars isn't showing who's best at getting a car to do what, it's a popularity contest. Oval track racing is largely setup anyway. As long as the driver can keep a rhythm to increase consistency. Nascar doesn't want to bore people with technical stuff on TV so this may seem a little known fact. I can attest to drivers feeling a loose car is more of what the watch say's then the seat of the drivers pant's when the tires are bigger than the car. My opinion is based from 15 years of driving race cars.As an example, todays typical dirt modified class has 750hp on a 8" tires harder than street tires on a dryslick track means that 95% of the time You use less than 1/2 throttle. More like japenese drifting than most realize. Some have been trying to learn the slick track for 220 years and can't get it. It's a far cry from hammer down and hold it.
Sponsors have to much power in Nascar. I can't run my racing business with them, so I can't hate them, in fact I have made many freinds and really enjoyed them all but they don't tell me what color to paint my car, what races to run, what place I have to finish and what to say on camera if I win. While I like to do well for them they understandwhat the money they gave me is not to make more money but to get into something very entertaining for a whole family can get into. THe bonus is tax deductions make it more affordable. if I lose, they pat me on the back and say, We'll get em next week, if I win, even they don't get a lot of recongniton for maybe there will be 5000 fans instead of TV mutimillions they dont tell me I have to this or that or shake so many hands or sign so many things because they are worried they might not get thier money's worth. In fact, I do it for fun and enjoyment of lighting up a kids eye's when he sit's in my car, or the guy's holding thier ears over the exhaust note and the fun the families are having. Laughing joking and hangin out. It means more than anything else to me. The entire Nascar community has been eaten alive with advertisement money. Fans and television are showing the sickness too. Nascar doesn't seen to have control over the sponsor money's. It's as if the team of 43 sponsors tells Nascar what to do instead of being part of racing, they are care about the money they spent to get as much TV time. I bet Nascar would have a commercial cover the last three laps of a race if the money were good enough. I really believe that. I watch em, not because I like em, because I'm hoping to find something that let's me know there's a future for auto racing. It's all I have to teach my kids.
 

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The Toyota Camry is built in america by americans. Sounds good enough to me. Mikey can probably afford five teams. He has been in cup for almost 15 years, he is one of the most popular drivers and his annual income (from all sources) is probably 15-20 M. Anyway I'm not defending Toyota but I think the sport has just evolved faster than it's diehard fans. I have been diehard since 87 and I have a real hard time with the new fans who think they have this sport figured out thanks to BP and the crew at FOX! Fox has turned NASCAR into a gong show and really cheapened things up.

If you really watch these guys you know who can drive and who is just in good equipment. Besides most of these guys drove the wheels of of a lot of other cars before making it to the show. Lots of talent out there. I still follow cup but I have had a lot of fun watching the trucks lately. Sad to say but since Earnhardt died the sport just hasn't been the same.

Anyway I know who the true fans are when I invite the guys to come to the local track and help me with my stock car and they are always too busy. They'd rather race on thier PC's than come and expierience the real thing. Racing is about the sights, smells, and speed, not just who has the nicest paint job.
I think it has been more like 22 years.
15 to 20m based on what?
Die Hard since 87??? you should have known he has been around a lot longer than that. 1 win before his time at DEI, only 3 poles, best season finish 12th 94 & 95, ran his low budget Bush Series team with a hand full of employees, sounds like someone who has the financial means to start a three car team ( should be a five car team)
 

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speede5 said:
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The Toyota Camry is built in america by americans.
Speede5, I know what the letters stand for and I know that Toyotas as well as other makes are tossed together in America. My beef is the loss of tradition. National, as in our nation. Some things just shouldn't be messed with. I happen to think foriegn cars shouldn't be allowed. Not that they couldn't compete or win, but because of good old tradition. That goes for restrictor plates too. I want to see a car that goes like stink, driven by a driver who has the knowledge and know how to handle it. Some people say the cars will be too fast. I say good! Then drivers will learn to be better to handle it. Good old competition. Don't change the game, improve the players.
 

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NASCAR died with the retirement of King Richard.

"Stock car" used to mean just that - STOCK CAR. The cars on the track actually resembled the cars you found in the showroom. Drivers got a car from the manufacturer and modified it to go racing. The fastest car won, and the loser tried harder on the next race. If you found a combination that blew the doors off the competition, you stuck with it and let them catch up. The 426 Hemi, the 427 SOHC Ford, and the 409 Chevy all had their day in the sun. We had a type of racing where drivers got into identically prepared cars and used their driving skill to win a series of races - it was called the IROC (International Race Of Champions.)

Now that's all NASCAR is.

Now the racecars are built under such stringent guidelines that even building up a bit of carbon on the valves might raise the compression level of an engine to the point that it's disqualified. Having a spoiler that's .0001 of an inch too low or at the wrong angle will get you tossed off the track. I'm waiting for the NASCAR officials to cut a section out of the hood of the cars before the race to mic the thickness of the paint to make sure one "team" doesn't have a weight advantage over another.

Restrictor plates are just another symptom. People are afraid that a car will go 230 on a track that's not made for it. SO BUILD A TRACK THAT IS MADE FOR IT! If the logic that rules NASCAR now ruled it in the 50s, we'd still see cars racing on the beach, and complaining that the track wasn't made for 100 mph. When the cars went faster than the track was built for, somebody built another track - witness Talladega. How is this different today?

I gave up on NASCAR years ago. It's turned into nothing but WWE on 4 wheels. Take the decals and paint off the cars and I challenge anyone to identify a carmaker. The bodies, chassis, and, most importantly, the engines are all the same. Ho, hummmmm...

Let Toyota join. Invite Honda, Nissan, Kia, Suzuki, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi to join while you're at it. I'll wager if you took off the decals and paint jobs, you wouldn't know them from the supposed Chevies, Fords, and Dodges anyway. They're all the same car with just another face driving it, so who cares what decal is on it?
 
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