[drelotter]

Hey Everyone. I'm New to this site. I'm interested in building Chevy Engines. The more I learn the better right? I'm currently building a drift/drag car. Any questions or comments. Send em my way :welcome:

PS.
I have a lot of questions about the valve train.

 

[mattmar]

Hows it goin what kind of car is it?

 

[eloc431962]

Welcome to the site, Let us know what you have so we can help, :welcome: . Cole

 

[NEW INTERIORS]

Always great to have another Chevy guy... :thumbup: Welcome to the site.... :thumbup:

 

[drelotter]

It's a 89 Nissan 240sx Coupe and I want to make it a drag/drift car.I'm doing a custom V8 swap that requires a custom oil pan, headers, driveshaft and motor mounts. I'm using a SBC 350 because They are easy to work on and affordable to make horsepower.

Now for my questions.

So would anyone help explain to me how I can reach a 6800 rpm red line without putting to much stress on the engine. What would I have to do as far as internals, valve train, etc. I'm starting on a new block. So before I go ordering a bunch of different parts, I'd like to hear some of your opinions or suggestions. I'm new to this.

Thanks guys!

 

[poncho62]

welcome...Best to ask your question in the engine forum.

 

[ap72]

It's a 89 Nissan 240sx Coupe and I want to make it a drag/drift car.I'm doing a custom V8 swap that requires a custom oil pan, headers, driveshaft and motor mounts. I'm using a SBC 350 because They are easy to work on and affordable to make horsepower.

Now for my questions.

So would anyone help explain to me how I can reach a 6800 rpm red line without putting to much stress on the engine. What would I have to do as far as internals, valve train, etc. I'm starting on a new block. So before I go ordering a bunch of different parts, I'd like to hear some of your opinions or suggestions. I'm new to this.

Thanks guys!

Well you're not going to be able to use one stock part- maybe the timing cover, but that's about it. If you're just enetering into tis field may I suggest building more for durability than for a little tach needle. Most people on ehre will tell you building an engine just to see a tach needle hit a certain mark is pretty much the worst thing to build for. I suggest outlining more what you want power wise and consider just spinning an engine isn't going to get you anywhere. I could build a Honda 200cc gas engine to hit 7000 RPM, but if it only has 10hp then it still isn't going to do much. I could also get into a D9 Dozer and rev it to 2000 RPM and push through a house, as you can see RPM has nothign to do with performance.

 

[drelotter]

I should rephrase how I put it. I meant high RPM. I shouldn't have been so specific. The reason Why i said 6800 first is because a friend of mine took his 355 to a little over 6k and his motor blew! So to stay on the safe side I wanted my motor to handle great amounts of stress and still stay reliable.

Does anyone have good a engine combo? This isn't a budget build. I just want a reliable motor that won't die if I rev the heck out of it. Especially while drifting it.

I would like to motor to be a NA Higher compression motor. So far I've done some research on engine parts what I am probably going to get

200cc 2.02/1.60 64chamber Aluminum heads
Dual Plane Air gap Aluminum Intake manifold
Holley 750cfm Carburetor
Roller Rocker Arms
Hardened Pushrods
Roller Lifters
Roller Cam
Hei Distributor
Block Hugger Headers
High Volume Oil Pump
Baffled Oil Pan

If I took all this new parts and threw them onto the stock 350 with stock 8:5:1 compression how much of a power increase would I be looking at?

I will eventually do the pistons rods and crankshaft.

 

[sam_bo3]

that depends on what roller cam you are looking for. Heads are not created equal AFR Alumium head will out do an ebay cheapy in most cases.
For a cam to work and make power in the upper end you will want more than 8.5 cr. 10 to1 with Al heads should still run on pump gas.

With the RPM's you will be running and the drifting situation of getting caught in the moment an MSD ignition with limiter would be a will good $300 insurance.

If you are looking at getting the 290hp GM parts plus crate motor there are better platforms to start with. There are threads on here about them.

As a fellow 240 driver www.silviav8forums.com has alot of info about the swap. Most of it for the LS motors but still a useful site.

 

[drelotter]

that depends on what roller cam you are looking for. Heads are not created equal AFR Alumium head will out do an ebay cheapy in most cases.
For a cam to work and make power in the upper end you will want more than 8.5 cr. 10 to1 with Al heads should still run on pump gas.

With the RPM's you will be running and the drifting situation of getting caught in the moment an MSD ignition with limiter would be a will good $300 insurance.

If you are looking at getting the 290hp GM parts plus crate motor there are better platforms to start with. There are threads on here about them.

As a fellow 240 driver www.silviav8forums.com has alot of info about the swap. Most of it for the LS motors but still a useful site.

I saw that forum. I've got the swap part down. I just want a great motor to start with. That's why I'm in this forum. I was told I could find most of my answers here. But so you have answered a lot of my questions. How I can achieve such compression will be my next step.

:thumbup:
Thanks

 

[seaimp]

if you really want rpm and hp

Quite seriously. A small block 400 with a 350 crank and rods gets you 377 cubic inches, AND about 8000 rpm.I have a 377,350 heads[the only difference in heads are steam holes in the heads need to be drilled out,ANY machine shop can do it for 50 bucks or aftermarket heads have them]12.5-1 pistons solid lifter roller cam,etc etc,top with a dbl pump 850, tricked out to 935 cfm which idles pretty good and drops out 586 hp to the crank. same size block, every thing interchanges like water pumps and the like, but way more rpm and hp. Less torque, not much, but in a light car you would be looking fast response and gross hp ...no?puts my 71 chevelle deep into the 9s.

 

[sam_bo3]

I am no drifter but from what I understand is drift is all about feel so good throttle response is important. I cracked the block in my 331 (327 .030 over) making 385ish hp would white smoke my tires (285/50/15)from a 40 mph roll on so. I am building about the same(maybe closer to 400) motor with a 350 for a daily driver. It was pulling a 11.70's on slicks at 112 (400 turbo with stock 4.08 rear.) at 6400 rpm. The guys at the silvia forum say stock LS1 with headers and intake can break tires loose in top of 4th with 6 speed and depending on quality of motor and driver pull 12.5 to 12 in the quarter. You will need a LT trans if you wnat a 6 speed to bolt to an old block. The camaros were double overdrive .76 fifth and somewhere around .58 6th. make cruising with 4.08's much easier. Check and see if you have vlsd other wise you will need to buy a quaf? which cost $ or just get a non turbo 300Z diff. Q45's came with 3.54 or 3.69 depending on year J30's aolso had high gear ratios but are harder to find. They are cheaper and have VLSD but need different axels.

check out jegs or summit. They sell pistons with a chart for c/r for a given cc head (I know for a fact the magizine will have the info or call their hot line). If you make a big order from summit I hear they will even cut you a deal on the price and they have very knowledgible people with good customer service.Jegs probably will too.

The LS1 conversion with AL block is actually 12lbs lighter than the cast iron 4 cylinder it replaces. With a stock weight of 2700lbs it doesn't take gobs of hp to make these ares move. The 89 hatch back is one of the most aerodynamic cars ever made. The 180hp c18det 4 cylinders had a top end in the 140's( it had a red line close to 8K.

While you have the car apart for the swap I would stitch weld the front end and roll cage the interior it if you are going to drift much The hatches are very weak in the back half and should be weld up too. The easiest way to fill the "trunk with dry ice and chip the sound deading material out and stitch weld it back. Those cars are epoxied together and the sideways stress will rip it apart. Look at the seam on the strut towers that is glue not a weld. just burn the glue out with a torch then weld it back together and inch for ever 3 inches of seam.

You will have to get creative with the swaybar on the front end to make it fit around the crank pulley. The guy that I bought mine off of just left it off because he only dragged it. Nova 2 pans work pretty well with a little mod because they are already front sump.

I hope this helps. If I told you stuff ya already know sorry I may have been hitting the brew a little hard.

 

[drelotter]

I am no drifter but from what I understand is drift is all about feel so good throttle response is important. I cracked the block in my 331 (327 .030 over) making 385ish hp would white smoke my tires (285/50/15)from a 40 mph roll on so. I am building about the same(maybe closer to 400) motor with a 350 for a daily driver. It was pulling a 11.70's on slicks at 112 (400 turbo with stock 4.08 rear.) at 6400 rpm. The guys at the silvia forum say stock LS1 with headers and intake can break tires loose in top of 4th with 6 speed and depending on quality of motor and driver pull 12.5 to 12 in the quarter. You will need a LT trans if you wnat a 6 speed to bolt to an old block. The camaros were double overdrive .76 fifth and somewhere around .58 6th. make cruising with 4.08's much easier. Check and see if you have vlsd other wise you will need to buy a quaf? which cost $ or just get a non turbo 300Z diff. Q45's came with 3.54 or 3.69 depending on year J30's aolso had high gear ratios but are harder to find. They are cheaper and have VLSD but need different axels.

check out jegs or summit. They sell pistons with a chart for c/r for a given cc head (I know for a fact the magizine will have the info or call their hot line). If you make a big order from summit I hear they will even cut you a deal on the price and they have very knowledgible people with good customer service.Jegs probably will too.

Yes I'm going to jegs site right now!
Yea Now that people are telling me AFTER I picked up my motor it looks like a 327 or a 400 block would have been the best way to start. Maybe down the road I'll get a 400 block from Dart. They make excellent blocks. But for now The LSD I'm getting is a 2 way clutch type. It's perfect for drag or drift because it drops the gear ratio.

http://www.intensepower.com/kasolisldils.html

And I'll be using the TKO-600 to handle all the TQ.

I have another general question. I've heard of engine builders drilling there crankshaft and/or rods to promote better oiling and lighten to further increase power and add some numbers on the dyno. How is this process done? And Can anyone do this?

 

[sam_bo3]

I beleive it is called "cross drilling". Nissan does this from the factory. This is part of the reason Jap motors stay together better than American made motors. They also keep tighter tolerances and a whole list of this (oil squirters for the back of pistons). They drill a hole all the way through the main of the crank so it oils out of both sides not just 1. check with a machine shop. A good way to find a good machinist is to go to the local drags or roundy round races and talk to the drivers. They may not tell you who to go to but they more than likely will tell you who to stay away from. Everybody has a bad day but if one or two names keeps coming up them it is a pretty good sign.

The 327 isn't nessesarily superior to the 350. It may rev faster than a 350 but as the old saying goes "there is no replacement for displacement". My car orginally had a 406 on NOS that was turning 10.90's til the NOS ran lean and spead the motor all over the track. The 331 was a bought from a guy that had it in a 57 bel air. Or so I was told. So gfar everything that I was told has been true from the orginal owner. gotta love ebay. I just couldn't justify spending 6K on a car what would be worth 4K when I was done so I bought somebody else's loss.

There isn't really a better or worse motor in the small block family. Just better or worse for a situation. The 350 is probably best all around(revs quick and has some tq). You can take a 327 crank with block spacers and put it in a 400 to make a 348. Those are supposed to rev quick and high as well. But most don't see the reason to cost yourself displacement especially over 50 inches.

Your 2 way will lock the tires on both decel and acel. Most factory lsd's are 1.5 so they only lock up on acel. It could make for interesting car to drive. Come flying down the straight let off the gas and cut the wheel and the rear still slides when you turn because they are locked together. The only time that they operate as open dif is under part throttle. It could be cool on the track but would take some time to get used to on the street which sounds like you don't plan on anyway.

 

[65smallblock]

Wow, you are all over the map. You really need to take some time and get yourself informed or you are going to end up several hundred dollars poorer and very dissapointed.

One of my favorite David Vizzard quotes is "forget what you want, what does the motor want?"

If you are going to start with a 350 then what I would suggest is to let us know what your budget is and then take it from there.

If all you want to get out of your motor is high RPMs and reliability then it could certianly be done, at a cost!! but throwing a bunch of money into everything but the bottom end is NOT the way to do it..

Dont be fooled into thinking that your 350 core is a bad start either, you can do just about anything you want with a good 350. They are the most abundant small block on the planet for good reason.

 

[seaimp]

have to agree with sb65, you definetly want the best bottom end,4bolt mains,and the best crank and rods yhat you can afford. After all is said and done,once you have a good fondation you can try all sorts of cams ,heads etc. with out worrying whether your engine will withstand the extra stresses.And budget,some of us older guys do not think about that as much, but,yeah, a budget is important. hard to enjoy your ride if you are dead *** broke.

 

[drelotter]

Wow, you are all over the map. You really need to take some time and get yourself informed or you are going to end up several hundred dollars poorer and very dissapointed.

One of my favorite David Vizzard quotes is "forget what you want, what does the motor want?"

If you are going to start with a 350 then what I would suggest is to let us know what your budget is and then take it from there.

If all you want to get out of your motor is high RPMs and reliability then it could certianly be done, at a cost!! but throwing a bunch of money into everything but the bottom end is NOT the way to do it..

Dont be fooled into thinking that your 350 core is a bad start either, you can do just about anything you want with a good 350. They are the most abundant small block on the planet for good reason.

Alright. I'm sorry I have to say this but My friend is an idiot. He's trying to convince me saying I don't need to disassemble the engine and do a complete rebuild, because the car that I'm using is so light that it won't matter. But it does! How am I going to Drag or Drift with 290hp stock 350. :spank:

So I should start by building the bottom end first. Got that. If I had to Throw a budget on the Motor I would say around $1500 for the rotating assembly $1800 for the Top end kit. Any more than that And I would be better off just investing in a crate motor. That isn't what I planned to do because I want hands on experience.

As for the bottom end Ive been looking around and I think I've found a decent kit!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/-SBC...TOP,-+30-_W0QQitemZ260418994418QQcmdZViewItem

Or

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/350-...P-Pistons_W0QQitemZ380140101950QQcmdZViewItem

PLEASE LET ME KNOW YOUR OPINIONS!

 

[seaimp]

hp guy

looks like an ok kit. really check what you want 383,350 etc. a350 block is really versatile.383 are proven power houses, lots of bottom end torque.Is your block 4 or 2 bolt main caps?ypu really want 4 bolt mainbearing caps.You also need to budget for, magna fluxing [check for cracks] the block,align boring the main and cam bearings,shaving the deck if it is not flat,cam bearings and boring or honing the cylinders.Most machine shops have cores they do all the NEEDED work to when they are slow for a discount.Just because your 350 was running does not mean it was all good.So get it checked before you pour your cash into it.IT may sound pretty daunting 'o god what have I got myself into?' but the first time your new engine cranks and fires, hell that will just feel great!

 

[drelotter]

Wow that's a whole lot of work. I am really considering machine work to the block before I do a complete rebuild. I do completely know the history on it. I know that it was in a 77 Camaro and the guy raced it all the time. At the end of one race it shut off completely and never fired up again. He told me it was because he didn't break the motor in properly after a Aftermarket Camshaft install, and that the timing was off. So then he rebuilt it with all new gaskets, bearings, and rings. I feel bad tearing apart all this work he'd done prior to selling me the motor. Even though it'll run perfectly fine the way it is now. It literally has zero miles on it and it's ready to run. I keep asking myself...Do I really want a stock 350? That answer is no. Should I tear down all his hard work to start off fresh and machine it? Yes! . I want to give it a 30. overbore and throw that 383 assembly in it. But I know I have a 4 bolt main block but not sure if it's a one or two piece rear main seal. I'll most likely end up buying the crank rods and piston separately since I'm trying to achieve really high compression and high horsepower Looks like I'm going to end up with one bad 350

Thank you to everyone for their input on my build.

:welcome:

 

[seaimp]

high compression

One last thing amigo,really high compression,not so good.12.5 -1 isNOT streetable at all. Yeah I know that is what I run, but I am a silly old Fool.I spend ALOT of money on high priced very volitile chemicals that are very dangerous to handle [Starts with aT,That is all i am going to say] in order to run high compression.10.5 ,11-1 cr is really the outer limit for any "normal"high performance use.9.5 with a turbo and nitrous to get up to spool speed? 10 -1 with a good solid roller can make solid tq /hp numbers, run on premium gas, and not detonate rings out prematurely.Good luck on your build, you sound like you are getting a plan together.Let me know how it turns out.