new wiki: Pricing professional painting

2103 Views 16 Replies 5 Participants Last post by deadbodyman, Jul 9, 2009

Jon

Discussion Starter · Jul 3, 2009

A recent discussion reminded me how frequently we have threads on pricing professional paint and body work, so, a few minutes ago, I started a wiki article on it: Pricing professional painting.

A similar topic of frequent discussion (and contention) inspired a previous wiki article: Cheapo paint job, so I thought that this one would work out similarly well.

Having the same discussion repeatedly makes inefficient use of our professionals' time, so, hopefully, a wiki article will provide a superior resource, while making the best use of our intellectual resources.

In addition, in the wiki format, unlike in forums, the discussion/debate/argument/smackdown over a subject is done separately from the actual article. To discuss the article, without actually changing it, click the "discussion" tab at the top of the wiki page.

For details on editing wiki articles, see the 8-sentence quick-start guide. Thanks.

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

mike the painter

· #2 · Jul 3, 2009

I find that most times theres an arguement its among pro's and their BOTH right and Both wrong.and usualy its just a simple misunderstanding or interpitation of a punctuation mistake.I feel theres "much to learn" by just listining to what their saying because its just like a debate.But once the name calling starts all the learning and views from BOTH sides ends.threats are just rediculous,name calling sounds childish and once it starts,nobody wants to go back unless they want more.it makes us all look bad. lets try to lead by example and act respectfull of all members after all were all rodders,the only time my dad and I EVER got along was when we worked together on an old car. Cars should be the one thing that bridges all gaps in generations and cultures, people from other countries are members.So lets at least make an effort to act like professionals and lead by example even though were not face to face... and "enjoy" . I'm still a new guy, here, and on the computor.but I see great potential here.and I'm trying to do MY part...Jon I didnt know how often this subject of pricing has been brought up,it was my first time seeing it, as is everything.sorry but argueing is a waste of time and I see no need to visit "wiki "just the one time I was suspended ,still dont know why. "politics"

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AntnyL

· #3 · Jul 4, 2009

Nicely done Dbm. I was trying to follow along a few threads looking for tips, but got discouraged after the threads went off on weird tangents. So hopefully this thread will help. I have a question, but first a little background on the subject vehicle; I've stripped my 55.5 Chevy truck down to bare metal, repaired the sheetmetal with welded patch panels, and filled all the areas of known highs/lows with a little filler. I rough sanded everything with 80-grit, and that's where it sits now. I plan to shoot it with epoxy primer, followed by coats of high-build primer to fill the sanding scratches. I do NOT plan, nor want a shiney final finish, just a flat "primer look" since this is a hot rod truck. My simple question is: should I sand with 40-grit prior to shooting the epoxy? Or will the 80-grit be a better base for these primers?

Thanks in advance for your time and advice. :welcome:

Antny

NEW INTERIORS

· #4 · Jul 4, 2009

AntnyL said:
Nicely done Dbm. I was trying to follow along a few threads looking for tips, but got discouraged after the threads went off on weird tangents. So hopefully this thread will help. I have a question, but first a little background on the subject vehicle; I've stripped my 55.5 Chevy truck down to bare metal, repaired the sheetmetal with welded patch panels, and filled all the areas of known highs/lows with a little filler. I rough sanded everything with 80-grit, and that's where it sits now. I plan to shoot it with epoxy primer, followed by coats of high-build primer to fill the sanding scratches. I do NOT plan, nor want a shiney final finish, just a flat "primer look" since this is a hot rod truck. My simple question is: should I sand with 40-grit prior to shooting the epoxy? Or will the 80-grit be a better base for these primers?

Thanks in advance for your time and advice. :welcome:

Antny

I myself wouldn't use the 40-grit,But I would wait to see what the painter's will say.I have found that it's to hard to cover all the scratches..

cjperotti

· #5 · Jul 4, 2009

I start with 40 grit, then move to 80 grit. then finish with 120 prior to priming.

mike the painter

· #6 · Jul 4, 2009 (Edited)

first I gotta say I'm originaly from saratoga springs,NY and still have family there.This might be the wrong place for this and be conciderd off topic but I'll give ita shot.....I gotta assume you know a little and everything I tell you will be for people just like you.usualy I treat and etch the metal then epoxy prime THEN bodywork but I've done some experiments and know the best way first hand,BUT the only differance is in the jobs longevity so the differances of priming first etching are very minor and ALL procedures work.even 2k primer sticks to unetched metal very well,not that I'd do it but if you did its not that big a deal for you the job will still get done and look good for a few years then you'll find something else and sell it so getting the best materials and useing the best procedures will only cost more and take you more time but since your not a pro the out come will be the same...,Ok? since your there I'll start from there the easiest way to do this is break that big a zz job down to bite size pieces...stand at the drivers headlite you need a system ..walk down the driver side to your first bondo spot...you start here and walk around the truck till you end up in the same spot again...start with polyester finishing putty its like a thin soupy bondo..I like ez sand by evercoat it sands ez and dont clog the paper.. use it for 36-40 & 80 grit scratches use it just like bondo but just a thin coat,cover the whole spot over lapping two or three inches.go down to the next spot,etc ,till you end up back at the lite,again..get a can of semi or flat black spray paint (the cheap stuff)lightly mist a fog coat over the putty(this also works for the bondo)block it lightly with 80 to knock down the high spots till its flat and all the black is sanded off we call this a guide coat it lets you use your eyes to sand since rubbing your hands over it will mostly confuse you but I do this because it makes it faster...then sand everything with 180 da then resand the metal to shine it up .80 is faster..then I 180 the metal but 80 is good enough,the epoxy will easily fill 80 since I've filled 36 grit scratches with it in one of my experiments I can only recomend SPI because its the best (but very inexpencive)the other epoxies I used dont even come close,so if you use something else I dont know if this will work.and the epoxy does stick to bare unetched metal well enough to not worry about adheation. spray a couple very wet coats and let it sit 24 hrs.you can leave it just like that or sand it down again with 180 da and reshoot two or three more coats for a real nice sheen..it'll take time to cure completely but its no concern, its done.Now...if I missed anything or if anyone wants to know why I told you to do something a certain way do speak up, a discussion is good it'll help clairify some foggy points.pros,your input will help too, I dont know ALL the tricks and I can learn something too,plus it'll give my finger a rest. At first I thought this might be off topic but it might be spot on for an example of what we all want to accomplish (a love of the work) :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: I can post some pics if it'll help

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cjperotti

· #7 · Jul 4, 2009

I guess everyone does things different. I can’t stand etching primer. My process is to clean any bare metal by sand blasting it then use PPG metal prep to bring out any impurities. I will follow that with PPG zinc chromate. Two restorations I did in 88 are still in the same condition as when they left my shop 21 years ago. I live in Upstate NY.

I agree with your follow-up in sanding. However, I don’t use a DA for feathering glasswork or primer. Feathering old paintwork, yes. As far as putty, I use good old Nitro Stan. Yes, I’m a relic of the past. My methods are old but my career and success has been built on my experience. It’s hard for me to abandon what’s worked best for me over the years.

AntnyL

· #8 · Jul 4, 2009

Great info, thanks guys. I hadn't planned on the EZ Sand step, I thought the high-build primer would take of the 80-grit scratches. Am I wrong to think this? If so, I'll do the EZ Sand. A little more info: I basically skim-coated the entire truck with filler. It had 50+ years work of little dings, dents and deep scratches in the metal. So between that, and all the little body mods I made (rounded the door corners, re-shaped the drip rails, pancaked the hood, etc), I skimmed the entire thing. So does "high build" primer fill 80-grit scratches? I've never used this stuff and am willing to learn. Thanks again guys, you guys are great!

Ant

mike the painter

· #9 · Jul 4, 2009

I dont like etching primer ether its a waste of money as far as I'm concerned,I etch with ospho and scrub it in with a red scotch brite,once you try it you'll feel the same way....but like I say they all work.just some are better.I think Ive done it every possible way there is

mike the painter

· #10 · Jul 4, 2009

AntnyL said:
Great info, thanks guys. I hadn't planned on the EZ Sand step, I thought the high-build primer would take of the 80-grit scratches. Am I wrong to think this? If so, I'll do the EZ Sand. A little more info: I basically skim-coated the entire truck with filler. It had 50+ years work of little dings, dents and deep scratches in the metal. So between that, and all the little body mods I made (rounded the door corners, re-shaped the drip rails, pancaked the hood, etc), I skimmed the entire thing. So does "high build" primer fill 80-grit scratches? I've never used this stuff and am willing to learn. Thanks again guys, you guys are great!

Ant

I use ez sand just like build primer and save an a zz of money in tape time and material it sands like butter,isand all the way up to 320 and prime with epoxt or regular primer from SPI nothing else.two gal of epoxy costs 170.00 one gal of primer cost 120.00 saving 50.00 just on primer makes a big differance when its time to eat

AntnyL

· #11 · Jul 4, 2009

deadbodyman said:
I use ez sand just like build primer and save an a zz of money in tape time and material it sands like butter,isand all the way up to 320 and prime with epoxt or regular primer from SPI nothing else.two gal of epoxy costs 170.00 one gal of primer cost 120.00 saving 50.00 just on primer makes a big differance when its time to eat

Gotcha. Yeah, i hear ya on the price of materials. Ouch.

cjperotti

· #12 · Jul 4, 2009

deadbodyman said:
I use ez sand just like build primer and save an a zz of money in tape time and material it sands like butter,isand all the way up to 320 and prime with epoxt or regular primer from SPI nothing else.two gal of epoxy costs 170.00 one gal of primer cost 120.00 saving 50.00 just on primer makes a big differance when its time to eat

Now your talking my language. Cutting costs where you can without sacrificing quality. I'll have to give that ospho a try and see if it performs as expected.

mike the painter

· #13 · Jul 4, 2009

read the directions first some have trouble

cjperotti

· #14 · Jul 4, 2009

You wouldn't happen to have a link to their tech sheet would you? I had a bad experience with directions on a can. It failed to inform me what the product was not compatible with.

AntnyL

· #15 · Jul 9, 2009

What is "ospho" and where does one get it/info on it?

mike the painter

· #16 · Jul 9, 2009 (Edited)

5

Now we ARE off topic Pm me for any additional info but Ospho is phospheric acid,that cleans metal extremly well it dries with a protective coating that wont start rusting inside not even surface rust for media blasting.....bondo wont stick to it!!!!! you must epoxy prime then bondo.....before you epoxy you sand with 80 or 180 just like you would any other coating to assure adheasion.....theres a little more to it but thats basicly it...it also disolves surface rust without any sanding at all and treats rust,neutralizing it.its great for etching bare metal.If enough people want to try it I'll explain my whole proceedure in detail including pics just pm me and I'll start a thread.BE fore warned :its no mirical cure and its a lot of work but in my opinion and with 35 yrs experiance its hands down THE best way to start a major resto project.You guys got nothing to loose and I have everything to loose if its not completely true ........sooooooo.....who wants to give it a go? Get an old hood and PM me.heres some pics to help you make up your minds

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mike the painter

· #17 · Jul 9, 2009 (Edited)

2

this roof is as bad as I've ever seen....oops this is what happens when you touch bare metal with bare hands (done on porpose)so use gloves and the primer on the side still sticks to bare untreated metal as you can see but just much better treated.the last two pics posted previously are before and after working the roof,(very rusty)the paint for this car runs just under $1,000 if it doesn't last I'm screwed.....but I'm not worried in the least,I've donethis before,(many,many times) the first pic below is a hand print this car is done now,without ospho or epoxy as an experiment.Conclusion:even if you dont treat,etch or use epoxy the job will still be done but will have trouble hitting the five year mark,with ospho and epoxy?who knows twenty years?more?15.00 for ospho 90.00 for SPI epoxy.....for 100.00 who wants to take a chance? Not me......

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