Hot Rod Forum banner

1 - 20 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,653 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
:)


Boyd Coddington Shop raided........

read this..........

http://streetrodderweb.com/hotnews/0410sr_boyds/

It is about the registration of vehicles and false numbers.

So beware of falsely registering your VIN numbers, claiming your kit car is a [email protected]@ Ford, or putting a SBC into your 95 Mustang.


Big Brother is watching.


:welcome:
 

·
Got Ouzo for touzo
Joined
·
415 Posts
Wow, even the "untouchables" are getting it.

I know for a fact the majority of rods (pre 49) built up here have got false registration.


bonuts
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,288 Posts
screw the Man.

cracking down on registration of a kit as an old rod.....

I wonder how far this will go?

questions......
?if i built a tub on a 71 f-100 frame, could i no longer title it as the 71 f-100? it's still the same frame, motor, tranny etc that came with the f-100..... just a different body.....


?QUOTE 2. Register a vehicle where the value of the vehicle is understated;

so the truck i just bought for a 50 dollar bill, i should have appraised and then pay taxes on the appraised value? or the fifty I paid for it?


aren't there more important issues that should be dealt with?

this has been mostly rhetorical, but i do wonder.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
Let it go. So what, a bunch of kit cars were misrepresented, they're still kit cars. They lost millions of tax dollars, how much is it going to cost to recover those millions of dollars? billions?

Up here it's the insurance industry that has started to check things out. If your ride is over 15 years old, the insurance company can ask you for an appraisal. My brother had his insurance cancelled because he "misrepresented" his '84 S Jimmy. (5.7L, A/C, 700R4, etc.) This all happened six months after he submitted a 15 page appraisal (by a licenced appraiser) for the truck that listed everything and had pictures to go with it. What's misrepresented when you submit a report like that? I don't think California has it that bad, at least you can argue with the government.
 
Joined
·
3,214 Posts
In Virginia, it used to be that you payed taxes on the vehicle when you registered it, based on what you paid for it. It was amazing how many people bought cars for $100.00. Now they tax you based on what the book value is, and they have a minimum. A few years ago, I registered a trailer that I built. It cost me more to register it, and get a title, than it cost to build it.

I don't know how they determine what year a home built vehicle is in California. In Virginia, it is registered as the year vehicle that it most resembles. I read that article through. Does that mean that all of those kit('glass) cars are going to have to be registered as the year that they were built and conform to the emission standards of that year?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,453 Posts
Surprisingly, California passed a law a couple of years ago that really helped out the hot rod community. We can now register a car in the year it most closely resembles so a '32 'glass roadster built in 2004 can legally be registered as a '32 and put in any engine desired w/ virtually no smog controls.

Sounds like from the article that Boyd's was misrepresenting the price of the vehicle to steal tax $$. Shouldn't be any emission law violations there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
An aquaintance of mine builds AC Cobra kits. He built 17 of them for California about 10 (maybe 15) years ago. He was telling me that he had to find old chassis and VIN # to pass emissions because they were based on the chassis that the kit was built on. Is this true?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,453 Posts
Adkart - that good news is only for Kalifornia. Check you local listings.

Flyfish - Both of us are probably right, until they passed the rod favorable registration law in Kalif. just a couple years ago, the car vintage was based on chassis #. You could put a Ford modular engine and a 2004 Gibbons body on an original '32 frame and it was a '32. Put a fresh tubular chassis under that combo and it required 2004 smog stuff. Things are much better now in Kalifornia.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
The following is my understanding take it FWIW.

I believe that pre SB100 specialty constructed vehicles (kit cars) were assigned a year based on the date of the engine block. And had to have all of the factory supplied smog emissions hardware aswell as meet all of the emissions regulations for that year.

Post SB100 of you get a number then you can register it based on what the car ressembles, or based on the engine block year (owners choice). If you don't get a number then you go through the old process.

The clamp down is more about people who were using "agencies" (like titles unlimited) to register cars out of State and then using those registration documents to falsely represent either the vehicle value or year (for emissions reasons). Unfortunately for many of those people it was probably the only practical way to title their cars.

As I said this is my understanding, and if anyone knows better please chime in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
seems like nothing more than harrasment to me. When they start checking individuals cars, that's over the line. If a company is trying to faslely licence cars, fine, stop them so they don't cheat the state out of more money. But other than being dicks, why bother people that have had thier cars registered for years? spending millions to recover the million they lost. just stupid
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
My take on it is that someone figured out how much money was involved and the State is short of money.

The problem is it's impossible to legally re-register the majority of the cars (outside of SB100). They're talking about 10,000's of cars and SB100 only allows a maximum of 500 vehicles registered/year.

So without some sort of amnesty they won't see the money anyway. Unless it's from levied fines?

I don't know how this affects Hotrods, does anyone know how much of the original car has to be replaced before it has to be retitled?
 

·
Hotrodders.com Moderator
Joined
·
2,858 Posts
Sounds like someone tried to shortchange the state by misrepresenting the value of a car they won or bought from Boyd. Buy or win a car that maybe valued at a hundred grand, get a receipt for ten grand, you just saved a bundle. It happens everyday. Problem is, my opinion, if you won a car of Boyds valued at, lets say $200,000, could you sell that car for that much? Doubtful. Now if you took a car you bought for a thousand dollars, paid Boyd a hundred thousand to make it pretty, what is the car worth? I think Boyd is going to be the scapegoat for the state to put some fear into people, make them think twice about fudging on vehicle value. Just my 2c. Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
I think Boyd is going to be the scapegoat for the state to put some fear into people, make them think twice about fudging on vehicle value
Exactly, you don't go after "Fish Sticks" Tortellini if you can get Al Capone.
 

·
Are we having fun yet?
Joined
·
213 Posts
Hey Dan, did you know that the cost to register (new or used vehicle in California) a vehicle for the first time is right at 9.5%. So you purchased a car for $25,000 it cost you $2,375.00 just to get the little sticker for the first year. You think thats why their might be a few altered receipts (bill of sales)? I know that I don't have a money tree in my yard.

Norm.
 

·
Philippines Cowboy
Joined
·
888 Posts
Somewhat off the subject, but the state of California has been having trouble collecting taxes for centuries. In the 1800's, the sheriffs would collect taxes in gold coin and then pay Sacramento with Lincoln greenbacks. U.S. Supremes ruled that it was illegal to pay state taxes in California in anything other than gold and silver coin. Decision's never been changed, but try and tell that to the Franchise Tax Board!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,453 Posts
Another little known, less cared about fact - the California constitution is bi-lingual! I am a big proponent of English as the official language in the US. Can't imagine how immigrants ever expect to succeed here if they aren't conversant in the language. However the Calif constitution was written and ratified in both English and Spanish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
This is the kind of nonsense we go through with HD motorcycles all the time. FWIW, HD motorcycles (pre '70 or so) had only an engine number. which is stamped on the left side engine case. So let's take a look at this example: Custom builder has remnants of a 1952 Panhead engine, cases with "52EL2210" and no title. he is in New York (no titles issued prior to 1974). go to local DMV or State Police office, run the number to verify that there is not a certificate of destruction or reported theft of 52 HD with VIN 52EL2210. Go home, get bill of sale from anyone for 52 Harley with that serial #. Go to DMV office and file for registration only using bill of sale, and affidavit that original paperwork is lost, and that "bike" was legally obtained. Pay sales tax on $1000, or $1500. and be honest that it is a basket case. Build your custom, keep receipts for Frame, swingarm, transmission, forks. (any or all could have serial numbers) When you are finished, you have a legal 52 HD. In NY title will not be issued for pre 74 vehicles. If you need a title, take your transferrable registration to a "title state" and file for a title and registration there. in many cases you will need a VIN # verification. The engine number attaches to your registration / title and is officially the VIN. any other numbers on serialized parts (remember your receipts, and original receipt for tax paid) may be listed in the database of the state issuing the title as supporting documentation. Now the sticky part, since you have multiple serial numbers, some jurisdictions may brand the title as "rebuilt wreck" in which case you still would have a 52 HD. If the state decides that the bike is "Assembled from parts" you could get a title with a state issued "ID number" (essentially a VIN) which would make the bike a 200X Custom, not a 52 HD. then your modern safety/ noise/ emissions requirements would apply.
This all being said, I'd assume that Rods should be treated in a similar fashion. If you have documentation for a particular VIN, you should be OK. If you build a kit, frame or not you will have a certificate of origin and it should be treated as a 200x custom. Moving a VIN to a different frame and body is not rodding the original and should not be treated as such. Building a rod around a chassis and firewall with the VIN in place, regardless of the running gear should give you the original documented year, make, and model regardless of the other parts replaced.

Bottom line, California is a socialist state and will do anything to squeeze money from the population hiding under the banner of "for the common good"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,928 Posts


Bottom line, California is a socialist state and will do anything to squeeze money from the population hiding under the banner of "for the common good" [/B]


Right on brother. I just wish Texas would quit dragging their feet on a street rod provision to the titling process so we all could be legal.

Vince
 

·
Philippines Cowboy
Joined
·
888 Posts
Biggarmike said:
If you build a kit, frame or not you will have a certificate of origin and it should be treated as a 200x custom. Moving a VIN to a different frame and body is not rodding the original and should not be treated as such. Building a rod around a chassis and firewall with the VIN in place, regardless of the running gear should give you the original documented year, make, and model regardless of the other parts replaced.

Bottom line, California is a socialist state and will do anything to squeeze money from the population hiding under the banner of "for the common good"
I heartily agree with your closing statement, but it seems to be at odds with the sentiments immediately preceding it.

The purpose of licensing is control. It's not to gain revenue. It's not to save the environment. It's for control. That's what big government socialism is all about. Finding a way...any way...to gain an earlier registration year...or avoid registration altogether...should be the goal of all of us who recognize the forces working against individual freedom. Let's not allow little philosophical differences within our sport to keep us from uniting in the battle. Yes, I also admire someone who can restore an early vehicle, rather than one who bolts together new parts for a modern "look-alike," but I wouldn't want Big Brother bothering either one.

Please pardon the preaching. Perhaps the proximity of the election has me overly sensitive to this sort of thing.
 
1 - 20 of 53 Posts
Top