Ok, a few more stupid questions about this top.

32495 Views 174 Replies 8 Participants Last post by John long, Oct 14, 2012

MARTINSR

Discussion Starter · Jun 13, 2012

I see in the GM assembly manual these things called "fillers". Over at the Goodguys I was able to see down into this area on a car and it looked like there were some dense foam pads at this spot. Is that all these "Filler" amount to, sort of a pad where the tack ("trim") strip screws to the body?

Next, it shows this measurement for the rear bow. It's extremely clear, 17 and 5/8 inches from the inside of the rolled edge on the rear bow to the center of the next bow. This is perfectly clear, make a stick that goes here to hold it and done deal, put the rear curtain in. That's how I see it at least.

But then they give this very elaborate directions for making a stick that would go there and it's adjustable! Why the heck would it need to be adjustable if this measurement is so defined and clear?

Thanks, Brian

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MARTINSR

Discussion Starter · #2 · Jun 13, 2012

Oh yeah, another question. This one on the stapler. I went to the hardware store and found that they don't have any pneumatic staplers that use the staple like I found in the top when I tore it down. They were the normal 1/2" wide or so quarter inch deep staple. I forget the terminology but they were half as wide.

Can you literally hand staple these tops? I have a high quality hand stapler but haven't tried any tests, is there hope to just hand staple it?

How about stainless staples so they don't rust, is there such a thing?

Brian

geezer69

· #3 · Jun 13, 2012

i started out with an electric stapler and went to air. them hand staplers wont do it.

DanTwoLakes

· #4 · Jun 13, 2012 (Edited)

MARTINSR said:
Oh yeah, another question. This one on the stapler. I went to the hardware store and found that they don't have any pneumatic staplers that use the staple like I found in the top when I tore it down. They were the normal 1/2" wide or so quarter inch deep staple. I forget the terminology but they were half as wide.

Can you literally hand staple these tops? I have a high quality hand stapler but haven't tried any tests, is there hope to just hand staple it?

How about stainless staples so they don't rust, is there such a thing?

Brian

Yes, there are stainless steel staples available for most staplers. Hand stapling would be difficult, but not impossible, they used to put them on with tacks and a tack hammer. I generally use my BEA gun (the blue one on the right) with stainless staples for tops, but the Central Pneumatic 96359 shoots Arrow T-50 staples, and would work also. There are stainless staples for it also. You could also buy a DuoFast electric stapler that shoots T-50 staples.

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DanTwoLakes

· #5 · Jun 13, 2012

MARTINSR said:
I see in the GM assembly manual these things called "fillers". Over at the Goodguys I was able to see down into this area on a car and it looked like there were some dense foam pads at this spot. Is that all these "Filler" amount to, sort of a pad where the tack ("trim") strip screws to the body?

Next, it shows this measurement for the rear bow. It's extremely clear, 17 and 5/8 inches from the inside of the rolled edge on the rear bow to the center of the next bow. This is perfectly clear, make a stick that goes here to hold it and done deal, put the rear curtain in. That's how I see it at least.

But then they give this very elaborate directions for making a stick that would go there and it's adjustable! Why the heck would it need to be adjustable if this measurement is so defined and clear?

Thanks, Brian

I don't know what the fillers are for, none of the tops I've done had anything like that. That 17 5/8" measurement baffles me, unless that has something to do with the pads. The bow height is the important measurement. Get that right and you will be fine.

MARTINSR

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 13, 2012

DanTwoLakes said:
Yes, there are stainless steel staples available for most staplers. Hand stapling would be difficult, but not impossible, they used to put them on with tacks and a tack hammer. I generally use my BEA gun (the blue one on the right) with stainless staples for tops, but the Central Pneumatic 96359 shoots Arrow T-50 staples, and would work also. There are stainless staples for it also. You could also buy a DuoFast electric stapler that shoots T-50 staples.

Where did you get the stainless staples?

Brian

MARTINSR

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 13, 2012

DanTwoLakes said:
I don't know what the fillers are for, none of the tops I've done had anything like that. That 17 5/8" measurement baffles me, unless that has something to do with the pads. The bow height is the important measurement. Get that right and you will be fine.

I'm thinking the fillers are a little pad of some sort that get lost after the first top is replaced. On the measurement stick, how in the heck do you set the bow height? This measurement stick is all I have found to measure where that rear bow goes. But now that I think about it, it is measuring it to the top it's self. With the adjustments I have done to the top at the windows (along with the windows) THAT has changed the location of that rear bow to the body. So if that rear bow height is so critical, how the heck do I set it?

Brian

MARTINSR

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jun 13, 2012

This sort of explains it, if you didn't get the measurements from the old top, then you use this 17 5/8" distance. But again, this is the rear bow to the next bow not the bow "height". Where do you measure the bow "height" from the rear body edge?

This is the step 16 mentioned.

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John long

· #9 · Jun 13, 2012

Brian, I bought a rebuilt used stapler from an auto trim supply house in Koxville, Tn for about $100 years ago. I have used it for all kinds of things. You will not regret buying a good stapler. If you want the name send me a PM.

John L

Gringo

· #10 · Jun 13, 2012

top

The little pads have a couple of purposes. They go on metal first over the holes in the body. They can be thick tape, rubber, or a clump of body sealer. They are to seal bolts so they don't leak into trunk and I think they space top out a bit so water doesn't sit there and can drain down to drain tube. As for stainless staples, I don't use them. They are out of the weather and usually last as long as the top. You should get 1/4 and 3/8 staples, gonna need some longer ones in some areas. As for that measuring stick, that is when you put the pads on after you set rear bow height. Harbor freight has a stapler. I bought one to use in shop for general use and seems to work fine. What is this car? I can look up rear bow setting for you. As for an adjustable stick, I'm guessing that is so you can use it for different tops?

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Gringo

· #11 · Jun 13, 2012

tops

Just another thought. Have you had body off frame, or had top mechanism out of body? Do your doors and windows line up good? Are body mounts good? Now is the time to check all this stuff. Put top in closed position and make sure weather seals fit all windows etc. If not adjust your mechanisms to fit. More fun stuff to think about. Just saying.

MARTINSR

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jun 13, 2012

It's a 1965 Buick Skylark and yes the top was restored and it has been all lined up with the windows and rubbers (PITA!).

What you are saying all makes sense, thanks. On the "fillers" some rubber washers sound like a deal.

On the measurement being after the bow height has been set doesn't make any sense to me. The only think you could change with that measurement IS the rear bow height, or am I missing something? How do you "set" the rear bow height? If you held it there some how (being it falls freely) at a certain height, setting that 17 5/8" distance would require you to change that bows height, would it not?

Brian

DanTwoLakes

· #13 · Jun 13, 2012 (Edited)

The bow height is from the center of the edge of the chrome trim around the body opening for the top to the center of the rear bow. In your case it's 20 1/2". Yes, it falls backward to open the top, but the key is making the rear bow stay at that length when the top is up, not going down. You set it at the correct height with the top's frame completely up and latched. The pads are stapled to the rear bow as well, and they will hold it at that measurement. The opening in the top is centered on the rear bow, and then the wire on is put over the seam.

T-50 staples, plain or stainless are available at most home centers. I got those at Home Depot.

MARTINSR

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jun 13, 2012

This is so odd that everywhere I have heard about this "bow height" yet in the GM manual they had a plan to confuse me as the bow height is measured from the other way!

Right off the bat I am befuddled as to what an inch one way or the other on this bow is going to do? The GM manual talks about it like it's a frigging piston ring gap or something. If that bow is up or down an inch what the hell would it matter? I could see with a fixed height window, or a glass window. But isn't the height of the window what the whole thing should be based on? What if the repro window isn't perfect, what if the repro top isn't perfect? I am lost on this whole thing being so critical when there is no mention of the top or rear window when this height is discussed.

Brian

MARTINSR

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jun 13, 2012

DanTwoLakes said:
The bow height is from the center of the edge of the chrome trim around the body opening for the top to the center of the rear bow. In your case it's 20 1/2". Yes, it falls backward to open the top, but the key is making the rear bow stay at that length when the top is up, not going down. You set it at the correct height with the top's frame completely up and latched. The pads are stapled to the rear bow as well, and they will hold it at that measurement. The opening in the top is centered on the rear bow, and then the wire on is put over the seam.

T-50 staples, plain or stainless are available at most home centers. I got those at Home Depot.

I am dying to get home tonight and measure the bow height, thanks so much for putting up with me.

Now, what in the heck is the "wire" you mention?

Brian

DanTwoLakes

· #16 · Jun 13, 2012

The rear curtain goes on first, and the bow height has to be right before you staple the rear curtain to the rear bow. There is an opening in the top that gets stapled to the rear bow. If the bow height isn't right, the opening in the top won't line up with the center of the rear bow. There's a piece called wire-on that is stapled over the seam in the top at the rear bow. If the bow height is off by an inch in either direction, there's no way to cover the seam with the wire-on.

MARTINSR

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jun 13, 2012

DanTwoLakes said:
The rear curtain goes on first, and the bow height has to be right before you staple the rear curtain to the rear bow. There is an opening in the top that gets stapled to the rear bow. If the bow height isn't right, the opening in the top won't line up with the center of the rear bow. There's a piece called wire-on that is stapled over the seam in the top at the rear bow. If the bow height is off by an inch in either direction, there's no way to cover the seam with the wire-on.

Ahhhh, I need to get my top out of the box and get a good look at it!

Thanks Dan, Brian

Gringo

· #18 · Jun 13, 2012

top

Does that second bow move? If not that should be your height. Some move back and forth a little. In my Atlas chart it shows 21 1/2 with a plus or minus of a 1/4" Find center of rear bow and center of chrome strip. Measure out 18" each way from center and mark. Measure at these points. Measure from center of tack strip to edge of chrome. I usually cut a couple of wood to hold in place. You will find out later as you start to put top on why you need rear set right. There a couple of funky slits in top that must end up over tack strip. Mark center of top and work out each way. Good luck.

DanTwoLakes

· #19 · Jun 13, 2012 (Edited)

This is a '65 Buick Skylark. The bow height is 20 1/2" according to Aro, Robbins, and Electron. The '66 and '67 Skylark are 21 3/4".

Gringo

· #20 · Jun 13, 2012

top

Dan are you using only center measurement? as opposed to the 18" from center. This could be the difference. My chart is old. It only goes to '73 but I've found it still works.

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