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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is not a political thread by the way. But our hobby and our cars we have loved are at risk of being illegal, not able to get fuel for them, crushed or museum pieces. Or do we need to convert our vehicles to run on Alcohol or Ethanol?
As on Jurassic Park.. Nature will always find a way.

We really need to take this serious with our next regime coming looking like it is going to happen.
 

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To quote the automotive section of the pipedream called the "Green new deal"

"Overhauling transportation systems in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector as much as is technologically feasible, including through investment in – (i) zero-emission vehicle infrastructure and manufacturing; (ii) clean, affordable, and accessible public transportation; and (iii) high-speed rail."


While they may tighten future emisions through advances in hybrid tech old cars will be grandfathered like they are now.

I was figuring on 87 grade fuel costing $6 at this point. Seen it last night for $1.80.

But if they really felt they could even attempt to LIMIT ice engines a fuel cost spike would be the first step. Followed by several other steps none of which would tell you you can't drive your 60's classic.

Emmisions reduction starts at the factories and power plants. Supercritical co2 is something I have been fascinated with over 10 years and something replacing steam in power plants.
Wind and solar are alternatives that while flawed are getting better.

But the biggest thing that will keep your ICE engine around for the next 20 or so years is infrastructure.
Even if everyone was given a Chevy Shocker new from the factory that could plug into a wall the grid is not up to the task.

Ever hear of a rolling backout due to air conditioning? Now double or tripple that impact then spread it nation wide.

We have time.
That being said electric is not bad. It is just stupid expensive to convert right now with battery tech still limited. A hybrid (range extender) will be around for several years.

I want to see the day when they tell boaters in select (high dollar) marinas that they can not run ICE engines any more. That might set a record for the fastest bill through congress to be recalled.

Gasoline may hit higher ethanol and algea ethanol levels. But it is not going to disapear overnight.

Fuel cost what it cost. If I drive a big block that gets 4-8mpg and it brings a smile to my face then I really dont care if gasoline cost $6 a gallon. I am going to drive that thing. I will buy a 30-40 mpg car commuter car. But that won't stop me from driving that 4-8 mpg car on the weekends.
 

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True Hotrodder
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Just for a different spin there are two things. One the destruction of an entire economy in this country related specifically to fossil fuel. Second the destruction of a world economy that is based on fossil fuels.

While our government may try to shove this down our throats, there are a lot of powerful governments on this world of ours that are not going to go for it.

No one has addressed the environmental impact of electric vehicles yet - it's been totally ignored but try to stifle fossil fuel and those issues are going to get raised.
 
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I asked this same question about 6 months ago and also prefaced it with not political but, I am building a 56 Chevy 3100 with an LS3 and Rodster Shop chassis for my fun and as a graduation present for my 2 year old grandson. One of the comments that made sense was, that i am changing the engine now, in 15 + years do another engine swap to electric when it becomes a lot more practical. He will have to do that because i don't think I will have it in me that far in the future but it made sense to me.
 

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Dang, I wish my grandpa would've given me a 56 Chevy pickup for my graduation, lol. I'm glad that your grandson will be brought up right though. (y)
 

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Did the green agenda gather votes ? Will anything other than lip service come out of it ,? Does the fact that there is at least 200 plus years of fossil fuel mean that we will give it up ? Yes , No , No ....:rolleyes:
 

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Even if everyone was given a Chevy Shocker new from the factory that could plug into a wall the grid is not up to the task.
Yeah, the f-ing "geniuses" in charge here in Commiefornia are spouting crap about being "100% renewable" blah blah, but they can't even supply enough energy to keep the lights on in some areas.
Then, since they've mismanaged the forests/brush areas and utilities so badly for so long, they've been shutting off power to millions of people so that the power equipment doesn't start fires...
So if you need to go somewhere during fire season, good luck with that.
 

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To convert all cars for example in Great Britain to electric power, would alone take app 50% of all copper production in 2018 and nearly the entire world production of neodymium in 2018.
(GB population is less than 1/1000 of world population.)

The electrification wave is run by:
1. People in lack of physics knowledge.
2. People that might be aware of the guys in pt 1, but recognize the smell of easy earned big money at a low risk.

Ok, so batteries might get better over time.
But how much better? 100 times better?
And at the same time in no need for rare minerals?
I highly doubt that.

My prediction is that the world will go short of batteries before it goes short of oil resources.

 

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Good points from everyone on this subject. I believe it really needs to phase in globally not just in the USA. This is a huge challenge. We can't agree in the US never mind globally. We all need to breathe and we all should participate. I enjoy my street rods and other gas powered toys and tools. Will I convert my street rods to electric?? Maybe?? How far into the future??
 

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"Global warming" caused by CO2 is the biggest hoax ever brought up by the elites! Guess what happened about 11,000 years ago? The globe started warming as it came out of an ice age. Not the first ice age by the way! How did it start warming without cars, trains, planes and electric plants? It is a natural cyclic event. The only difference is the elites are going to loose their beach front property in about 125,000 years.

Of interest. I worked at a science based learning center. I was tasked with researching placing solar panels on the 33,000 sq.ft. flat roof of our building. Using mid range panels (cost and efficiency) the return on investment was 35 years. That was strictly the cost of power calculated by the power company, not the cost of installation. Not too bad a deal until the life expectancy of the panels turned out to be 15 - 20 years.

Bottom line, get ready to dig into the left rear pocket for that green to pay for the green!
 

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True Hotrodder
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Good points from everyone on this subject. I believe it really needs to phase in globally not just in the USA. This is a huge challenge. We can't agree in the US never mind globally. We all need to breathe and we all should participate. I enjoy my street rods and other gas powered toys and tools. Will I convert my street rods to electric?? Maybe?? How far into the future??
This I disagree with completely! I am tired of people spouting off about "we all need to breathe"...the carbon that is given off by fossil fuel burning is consumed at an alarming rate by plants and trees. The forestry service in this country alone says that there are more trees now than a 150 years ago. I have all kinds of trees on my own property here and I have owned other property for 40 plus years, these trees are gaining 2 feet a year in height - heck I can't keep up with them.

I have no intentions of ever converting anything to electrical power, if you had any idea of the amount of real pollution that is generated obtaining the raw materials for Lithium you might have a bit of a different thought. With today's controls, our normal run around cars are damned near cleaner than sitting in a pine forest. This idiotic government of ours might try to shove EV down our throats, but I am going to fight them at every turn I can. Anyone that thinks using an EV is "helping" the enviornment is simply a FOOL.
 

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Certainly the whole concept needs expert scientific, engineering, and economic thorough investigation. Not get shoved down our throats by some bag of wind radical politician.
 

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They want us to believe that electric is more environmentally friendly... but the question is "Is it really?"
As has been mentioned, the required resources and resulting pollution from the manufacture and disposal of the electric components could pollute things more seriously than modern combustion engines.

Also, the whole "green" thing is being used as a tool by power-hungry creeps and weirdos just to get power/control, and relieve us of our civil rights (not just driving hot rods).

This "New Green Deal" thing is the prime example... it reads exactly like a Communist Manifesto... seriously!
There are many blatant things in that manifesto that have nothing to do with the environment, and everything to do with a Totalitarian Socialist/Fascist takeover of our society.
I also saw the "godfather" of the New Green Deal on TV... once and only once... Total Weirdo!
If anyone is unfamiliar with those details, READ IT.

Anyway, those types of things have pushed me into the "Cimate Change is likely a total hoax" column.

So the best thing is for people to vote for whatever opposes those weirdos and their manifesto... as long as it makes sense!
 

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How come no one has mentioned the hydrogen fuel cell?? A lot cleaner than electric.

IMO, electric is not the answer.
 

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How come no one has mentioned the hydrogen fuel cell?? A lot cleaner than electric.

IMO, electric is not the answer.
Unfortunately Hydrogen is not the answer, partly because of the huge amount of energy needed to make it - and the energy loss on the way from making, and until it has charged the fuel cell in your car.

Making hydrogen also need huge amounts of fresh water, and fresh water is a limited component in large parts of the world. Making fresh water from sea water would add even more energy needed for the process.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Solar Panels were all over the place on houses when I was in grade to middle school. Funny how as they got old they were not replaced. Hoax of running out of fuel then. Now we have more fuel than we can use. Old wells are replenishing ( They did not count on that). So now they use Climate Change to create the new hoax so for the new crop of ignorant young adults to people believe ( They create a new fake crisis about every 10 years to deceive the new adults) So they go out an buy solar again and will give up their freedom to be saved by the Govt. Now it is either they believe AOC and Bernie or they preparing for our fossil fuels prices going sky high. Then the 35 year return will shrink very quickly.

"Global warming" caused by CO2 is the biggest hoax ever brought up by the elites! Guess what happened about 11,000 years ago? The globe started warming as it came out of an ice age. Not the first ice age by the way! How did it start warming without cars, trains, planes and electric plants? It is a natural cyclic event. The only difference is the elites are going to loose their beach front property in about 125,000 years.

Of interest. I worked at a science based learning center. I was tasked with researching placing solar panels on the 33,000 sq.ft. flat roof of our building. Using mid range panels (cost and efficiency) the return on investment was 35 years. That was strictly the cost of power calculated by the power company, not the cost of installation. Not too bad a deal until the life expectancy of the panels turned out to be 15 - 20 years.

Bottom line, get ready to dig into the left rear pocket for that green to pay for the green!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
This I disagree with completely! I am tired of people spouting off about "we all need to breathe"...the carbon that is given off by fossil fuel burning is consumed at an alarming rate by plants and trees. The forestry service in this country alone says that there are more trees now than a 150 years ago. I have all kinds of trees on my own property here and I have owned other property for 40 plus years, these trees are gaining 2 feet a year in height - heck I can't keep up with them.

I have no intentions of ever converting anything to electrical power, if you had any idea of the amount of real pollution that is generated obtaining the raw materials for Lithium you might have a bit of a different thought. With today's controls, our normal run around cars are damned near cleaner than sitting in a pine forest. This idiotic government of ours might try to shove EV down our throats, but I am going to fight them at every turn I can. Anyone that thinks using an EV is "helping" the enviornment is simply a FOOL.
Didn't mean to start a war here. The storage of spent batteries is another problem. Very toxic to our environment. Gasoline just evaporates in old car tanks. But does not sit and pollute ground water and so forth for years and years. Also it does not take away our rare earth minerals forever.

I have been an Alex Jones listener for years. He is a bit of a fire and brimstone guy but cut through all of the crap and his message is real. While he and others in alternative media have been ripped for bing "Conspiracy Theorists" they have foretold of all what is happening now. Trump wanted us to become self sustaining and Sovereign. Biden is already talking with foreign leaders about coming back ( "We're Back" as he said) to stop all of that. Does General Flynn ring a bell? They tried put him in jail for high crimes doing the same thing??? Whats that tell you. Banana Republic .. World.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Unfortunately Hydrogen is not the answer, partly because of the huge amount of energy needed to make it - and the energy loss on the way from making, and until it has charged the fuel cell in your car.

Making hydrogen also need huge amounts of fresh water, and fresh water is a limited component in large parts of the world. Making fresh water from sea water would add even more energy needed for the process.
Funny how know one really answered my question?
I think we have all answered the question that Gasoline and Fossil Fuels are the most efficient form of Energy we have. You have to remember that it makes is to mobile and independent over all . With that they cannot control us, to powerful. They cannot let this happen.
 
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