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Hello so I've been told back then when a sbc started having issues of a flat cam mechanics would replace it and be on there way. I wanna know if anyone's done that before and had no long term issues. Would super small prices of metal be able to pass through and not be a big worry for the new cam break in? There would have to be some left over if the cam was going flat over time. The oil filter would catch the big stuff but there's gotta be atleast some super small pieces in there that can go through the passages and not hurt anything.thank you
 

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It’s more like the lobe and lifter foot grind away making small particles over much time. At full high mileage tear down its hard to say if that caused the commonly found scratches in crank journals or not. It’s seldom that you don’t find that kind of journal damage whether there’s been a cam lobe and lifter failure or not.

Bogie
 

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It’s more like the lobe and lifter foot grind away making small particles over much time. At full high mileage tear down its hard to say if that caused the commonly found scratches in crank journals or not. It’s seldom that you don’t find that kind of journal damage whether there’s been a cam lobe and lifter failure or not.

Bogie
It’s more like the lobe and lifter foot grind away making small particles over much time. At full high mileage tear down its hard to say if that caused the commonly found scratches in crank journals or not. It’s seldom that you don’t find that kind of journal damage whether there’s been a cam lobe and lifter failure or not.

Bogie
It’s more like the lobe and lifter foot grind away making small particles over much time. At full high mileage tear down its hard to say if that caused the commonly found scratches in crank journals or not. It’s seldom that you don’t find that kind of journal damage whether there’s been a cam lobe and lifter failure or not.

Bogie
It’s more like the lobe and lifter foot grind away making small particles over much time. At full high mileage tear down its hard to say if that caused the commonly found scratches in crank journals or not. It’s seldom that you don’t find that kind of journal damage whether there’s been a cam lobe and lifter failure or not.

Bogie
you're saying you can't tell the difference between normal wear & the damage caused by a a cam failure ?
 

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GM built a bunch of SBC in the 1970's that had early cam failure. I replaced many without doing anything special, just a oil change. Had no repeat failures that I know of. The struggle was getting the old liters out as they would not pull out normally so I used a piece of thick rubber sheet that I pushed into the cam tunnel with the aid of a slotted piece of PVC. Then I could just push the lifters down onto the rubber and drag them out the front with a magnet.
 

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2nd hand knowlege (Im 40) but there was a rash of these issues with fleet vehicles in the 70s. My Pops moonlit at a small dealership after hours doing R&R on plastic tipped timing sets and camshafts for some fleet accounts. Mostly 307s but some 2bbl 350s as well. After the first few had problems, the fleet manager decided to do it as preventative maintenance. Only other thing I remember Dad saying was that some of these had added a supplimental filter that used a roll of toilet paper. No Im not kidding. Toilet paper.
 

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Yeah, couple of us did many side jobs on flat camshafts in GM cars. We did a lot of R&R on 4 cylinder Vega engines in the 1970s too.

Camshaft jobs we poured solvent in the valley of the block (intake off) that drained directly out the oil pan drain. Before the intake was installed we poured oil in. Also used a GM oil suppliment additive.
 

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you're saying you can't tell the difference between normal wear & the damage caused by a a cam failure ?
Yes, with complete tear down between high mileage SBC’s showing lots cam lobe and lifter wear versus those with good cam lobes and lifters the damage on crankshaft journals is indistinguishable in general. There’s always an outlyer but these are exceptions not the rule.

Bogie
 

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Great, now I spent a few hours noodling around bout Frantz oil filters. They really do use single ply tissue paper as a filter media.
What a world we live in.

Do any of you elder statesmen have positive things to say about them? Is there a place for them in todays world; or a curiousity better left as a conversation piece?
 

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Great, now I spent a few hours noodling around bout Frantz oil filters. They really do use single ply tissue paper as a filter media.
What a world we live in.

Do any of you elder statesmen have positive things to say about them? Is there a place for them in todays world; or a curiousity better left as a conversation piece?
My dad's paint booth used a toilet paper filter on the incoming airline. 1960's era
 

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Yes, with complete tear down between high mileage SBC’s showing lots cam lobe and lifter wear versus those with good cam lobes and lifters the damage on crankshaft journals is indistinguishable in general. There’s always an outlyer but these are exceptions not the rule.

Bogie
Based solely on my experience , I'll agree to disagree on this point .
 

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GM built a bunch of SBC in the 1970's that had early cam failure. I replaced many without doing anything special, just a oil change. Had no repeat failures that I know of.
I've only experienced one wiped cam. It turned out to be a few lobes on a 454. The customer told me to do a cheap fix, so I replaced the cam & lifters and changed the oil & filter. Did the usual moly paste on the lobes and lifter faces, and added Driven BR30 break-in oil. Although he had planned to sell the car (a Chevelle), his teenage son was still driving (thrashing?) it a year later, and it was running fine.

I think most of that junk falls in the pan, never to be heard from again. That said, had it been my engine, I would have torn it apart, tanked it, blew out all the oil passages, and replaced the cam bearings.
 

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I've only experienced one wiped cam. It turned out to be a few lobes on a 454. The customer told me to do a cheap fix, so I replaced the cam & lifters and changed the oil & filter. Did the usual moly paste on the lobes and lifter faces, and added Driven BR30 break-in oil. Although he had planned to sell the car (a Chevelle), his teenage son was still driving (thrashing?) it a year later, and it was running fine.

I think most of that junk falls in the pan, never to be heard from again. That said, had it been my engine, I would have torn it apart, tanked it, blew out all the oil passages, and replaced the cam bearings.
the GM problem was in the SBC and happened over thousands of miles, and perhaps many oil changes.
 

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1979 Chevrolet Malibu 496-TH400-9" (cruiser). 1992 Chevrolet S10 355-700r4-7.625" (daily driver).
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Great, now I spent a few hours noodling around bout Frantz oil filters. They really do use single ply tissue paper as a filter media.
What a world we live in.

Do any of you elder statesmen have positive things to say about them? Is there a place for them in todays world; or a curiousity better left as a conversation piece?
I wouldn't consider myself an elder statesman (I'm 50). I get the sense these were used more often on vehicles with potentially longer oil change intervals? By design or because it was cheaper to do so? Somehow the latter seems to be a strong motivator in too many decisions.

I'm just a hobbyist and have only seen them. No experience there. This was just a thought that popped into my head when I read your post. I'm curious to hear the responses.
 

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Great, now I spent a few hours noodling around bout Frantz oil filters. They really do use single ply tissue paper as a filter media.
What a world we live in.

Do any of you elder statesmen have positive things to say about them? Is there a place for them in todays world; or a curiousity better left as a conversation piece?
I remember them in the JC Whitney catalogs when I was a tween wishing to be old enough for a car. Even then I always considered toilet paper oil filters to be in the same group as under-dash 45rpm record players and stick on spinner headlight brushes!
 

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You need to be careful who you buy cams from these days.
Lots of junk manufacturers who have 5 star ratings selling oil pans. The oil pan is a stamped piece they sell for stupid cheap. Not much there to mess up so they get a 5 star rating. The more expensive camshaft may not be even hardened. But they have that 5 star for that oil pan so on some sites it shows them rated at 5 star.

 

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Great, now I spent a few hours noodling around bout Frantz oil filters. They really do use single ply tissue paper as a filter media.
What a world we live in.

Do any of you elder statesmen have positive things to say about them? Is there a place for them in todays world; or a curiousity better left as a conversation piece?
Pretty much an idea before real filtration took over. Messy to service and not overly effective. Imo.
 

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Back in the day oil filters often were an option rather than standard. These were usually plumbed with inadequate hose that frequently failed, as happened on my mom’s 49 Plymouth wagon one night on old US 80 in SanDiego’s Mission Valley which when I was a kid was driving through semi desert country side, looking nothing like it does today with miles and more miles of malls, stadiums, restaurants, appartments, pavement and more pavement.

Some of them were the Frantz we never had one but some neighbors and friends did. I don’t remember anyone reporting problems but back then they were controversial as they continue to be so if anyone had a failure tied that filter I’m sure it was never talked of out loud.

Changing the filter on my mom’s Plymouth was a messy ordeal it mounted on a bracket at and above the rear of the engine. You unscrewed a bolt securing the top cover to remove the filter element putting it in a pan or bucket to drain. This operation always spilled oil on the side of the engine and on the starter motor. That was mopped up with a rag as was the gunk removed from the bottom of the filter housing, (can). The night the hose blow my dad cleaned up the mess with his undershirt, than wrapped the hose in electrical tape as I held his GI issue 90 degree flashlight. Keep in mind LED bulbs were about 60 years in the future so this was about as bright as a birthday cake candle. Electrical tape back then was a sticky cloth material often called friction tape. This Rube Goldberg patch got us home which was about 30 miles. Back then you never ventured from home without a tool kit and some common failure parts, bailing wire and friction tape and a good spare tire with lug wrench and jack. The link shows a picture of this thing but I remember a hex bolt not a Tee handle for removing the top cover. Over the years the Plymouth became the ranch vehicle after it served to teach my brother and I how to drive. It lasted in my parents hands till into the late 1980’s or early 90’s, I don’t remember exactly when it just wasn’t there on one of my visitations home. That was my mom’s car until I graduated from college in 62, that year my mom got a new Ford Fairlane with a 221 V8 and her first automatic transmission, a black, two door with a red and white vinyl interior. She drove that for 25-30 years. My parents having come of age during the Great Depression always got a long life from the things they purchased.


We had a neighbor a hill over who was, also, our high school chemistry teacher, he put a Frantz on everything from his tractor to both his cars.

Getting back to cam lobe and lifter failure in my experience it is mostly similar to grinding, the surfaces just erode into the oil as fine powder. In the good old days it was probably trapped in the forever sludge rather than a filter not to mention that filters back then only stopped pea gravel there wasn’t any expectation of micron level filtration. Oil sludge and gooey gray lead deposits from the leaded fuel was everywhere non pressure oil wasn’t unless your engine like the Chevy inline 6 used oil dippers for rod bearing lubrication, those risked gooing up if you cheated the engine on oil changes.

Bogie
 
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