Paint prices and material amount.

2856 Views 17 Replies 7 Participants Last post by millercustomfab, Aug 30, 2009

americanLT1

Discussion Starter · Aug 26, 2009

Hey guys,

This post may be a bit premature as I probably wont have my car ready to paint until spring but I started to get some prices from local suppliers and it looks like I'm going with Dupont Chroma-base in viper red. He quoted me $500.00 a gallon and stated that I would end up with two gallons of spray-able base. Does that price sound about right and how much material do you think I'll need to shoot a Rambler American with good coverage and have a quart or so of base left.

Ed

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trees

· #2 · Aug 26, 2009

I painted my Coupe with Chroma Base in 1999. I liked the way it went on and still like the results today, BUT.... I hit a dog, big dog a couple of years after finishing the car and the local store could not even get close to matching the paint. I still had the formula and they used their chronometer and never matched it. Went to PPG and they got close, but not close enough. I went to RM and they nailed it as far as my and their eyes said. I will never use it again. (Plus $500 per gallon is way over priced in my book. In fact, I have give up on base coat/clear coat entirely and returned to single stage epoxy, wondering why I ever switched in the first place. Cheaper, less time consuming and less clean up.

Trees

milo

· #3 · Aug 27, 2009

If you base/seal with a quart of white first you'll only need half as much red.. :thumbup:

millercustomfab

· #4 · Aug 27, 2009

He hit it dead on. Use a sealer, or tint it close. It will save a lot of base. I would try going with 3 quarts instead of a gallon, and start painting on a day that you supplier is open. Mine is closed on Sat. now, and I plan my jobs around making sure the delivery guy can get down here just in case I knock over something( it happens). A gallon of clear will cover you, as long as you dont need to bury any graphics. I would however look into a different brand like nason if this your first paint job. If you are not happy with your job, it wont hurt your wallet as much.

mike the painter

· #5 · Aug 27, 2009

americanLT1 said:
Hey guys,

This post may be a bit premature as I probably wont have my car ready to paint until spring but I started to get some prices from local suppliers and it looks like I'm going with Dupont Chroma-base in viper red. He quoted me $500.00 a gallon and stated that I would end up with two gallons of spray-able base. Does that price sound about right and how much material do you think I'll need to shoot a Rambler American with good coverage and have a quart or so of base left.

Ed

This is one of the best questions I've ever seen, but first a question or two ...the answer I give you depends on the answers you give.You may be surprized...very surprized...So 1) have you ever painted before? how many? how long do you plan on keeping this car? does 1000.00 sound rediculus for paint? did you know that ,if done right a pro cant tell single stage from base clear? great question ... :thumbup: :thumbup:

mike the painter

· #6 · Aug 27, 2009

millercustomfab said:
He hit it dead on. Use a sealer, or tint it close. It will save a lot of base. I would try going with 3 quarts instead of a gallon, and start painting on a day that you supplier is open. Mine is closed on Sat. now, and I plan my jobs around making sure the delivery guy can get down here just in case I knock over something( it happens). A gallon of clear will cover you, as long as you dont need to bury any graphics. I would however look into a different brand like nason if this your first paint job. If you are not happy with your job, it wont hurt your wallet as much.

I can match it ....Just about any color with a technique called blending... once I even blended orange to red and no one could tell it was the wrong color(used lot car) it took the whole side of the car, but the point is... the brand of paint isnt important its the man mixing the formula and the man spraying but mostly its the painters job to get it right its not the paints fault it dont match...its the painters...but an experianced painter has a boat load of excusses for a bad paint match none of which are his fault...just remember ...its a poor craftsman that blames his tools for a poor quality job..

americanLT1

Discussion Starter · #7 · Aug 27, 2009

Actually, I just ordered the white spi epoxy primer and planned on shooting the base over that. I'm going to have hundreds of hours in the body of this car between body mods, panel fitting and smoothing I don't want to put cheap paint on it. Realistically though, It's a street rod and won't be driven daily or sit out in the weather but It will be driven enough that the potential for body damage will certainly happen so I need paint I can match easily.

I'm not an experienced painter. Over the last 25 years I've painted Two cars, one twice. The first was acrylic lacquer, second was acrylic enamel, last was bc/cc. I'm not totally set on a brand or bc/cc. Single stage might be a better option but it seems the more opinions I get the more confused I get. I am going to have a ton of time in getting the panels on this car as straight as possible and want a deep shine and paint as flat as possible, no waviness. The car I painted twice had acrylic enamel on it first and it was flatter than the bc/cc and I'm sure it was my lack of experience that caused that.

Because of my lack of experience I chose a solid color. Plus, The car needs to be painted in pieces and probably over several days. I'm also painting it in my two car garage that is space limited. This will also be my first time painting with a hvlp gun.

Also, Is one type of paint more resistant to heat than another. This is Arizona and this car has turbos on it so under hood temps will be high. I plan on insulating the underside of the hood with something but the turbine side of the turbos are only about 2' from the hood. Don't know if it's an issue but though I'd run it by you guys.

Thanks for the input and keep them coming.

Ed

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Irelands child

· #8 · Aug 27, 2009

If you are using a red DuPont Chromabase, that price is probably about right. Reds are very expensive. If it has some pearl in it - then it's more yet. I painted my AVATAR car last spring with Chromabase in Mustang Saleen Venetian Orange (it's really almost yellow). The list on it was over $650 a gallon. My supplier "helped" me a lot by selling to me at his cost (below net) and it still ended up at about $450/gallon and I needed 6 quarts plus a spare JIC as it is NOT a high hide color even over the light gray SPI epoxy. Now, what I ended up saving $$ on was using SPI Universal Clear - which for me, better then the Chromaclear.

Before you commit to a paint brand, take a look at the SPI colors. I would possibly have used their Grabber Orange had I not already purchased the DuPont before I knew about SPI.

Dave W

mike the painter

· #9 · Aug 27, 2009 (Edited)

the irish kid nailed it .....thats exactly what I use for nice work chroma base and SPI clear SPI epoxy is the best sealer Ive ever used(20% reduction).but if you want the best single stage, glasurite simply cant be beat ,its almost impossible to run,sounds like money isnt an issue....ether system cant be beat.plus the SPI tech hot line is absolutly the best, hands down,I would use the irish kids system if I were you.because of the company itself,even if it is was a tie for the best clear out there,the hot line makes all the differance .Can you tell how much I like it? I only wish SPI still made single stage paint that was some good stuff they both sand and buff like a dream. PS,You should ONLY use single stage for solid colors !!!

millercustomfab

· #10 · Aug 29, 2009

who said anything about blending? When you spill a gallon of paint you might want the store to be open.

mike the painter

· #11 · Aug 29, 2009 (Edited)

millercustomfab said:
who said anything about blending? When you spill a gallon of paint you might want the store to be open.

HAHAHA,I did spill a gallon of red paint when I was a young painter (just had to open it and see) it looked like someone bled out on the floor... for four years... I was going to put a chaulk outline of a body next to it... But I did the blend on purpose, to prove a point to my new painter that thought he knew something about paint...cost him fifty bucks......smartend up though never did make a bet with me again always listend afterwards too.....thanks for the memories... :thumbup:

imp: you buy your paint from a store? Well that explains it ...I use a mixing machine (just like the store)using a formula. :mwink: btw ........SS or bc/cc on grand am? sealer..no sealer? hint: its one of my lot cars.....

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millercustomfab

· #12 · Aug 29, 2009

Well I used to do bikes only, and did a lot of airbrushing and graphics. I used cheap spray guns, and I could get away with almost anything. Just got into to cars, because its all I seem to be getting lately, and yeah its quite a bit different. A lot more money for materials which burned me on the first car, and recently got an itwata w400 to do my clears. I was using a $35 campbell hausfield for clear because at around 45psi on small parts it laid out perfect, but on a large surface it wasn't quite cutting it anymore. Only thing that is the same, is if your bodywork is crap, the paint is going to be crap now matter how its done. I just moved into a real shop, and the only work I'm getting is word of mouth, cause I'm in a horrible location, and you cant see my shop from any street any where. Just plug away I guess, and things should pick up after a while. I've plugged a few tires for free when people driving through my area got a flat, and done some emergency welding on a trailer that snapped a tie down driving by with a load on it. That kinda stuff cant hurt.

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mike the painter

· #13 · Aug 29, 2009

well miller,you gota great gun i've been where your at with the business.I feel for you too. if I can help save you some cash ,I will there's a good many tricks I've learnd to that end.

mike the painter

· #14 · Aug 29, 2009

2

How about a shine like this for 200.00 at will last ten years ez?or you canlook into dupont, sherwin williams ...both are very good (I prefer SW) but urathane is what you want nothing less...on the low end I use Nason Ful-thane by dupont ...I dont like any of the others as far as the low side goes a gallon of red runs 200.00 in ful-thane and if you screw it up it's no big deal...go get some more and try it again.you have a lot of pressure on you if you have 800.00 in paint invested....as far as the paint store goes ..BEWARE...those guys love seeing you come in they work on comission and will try to sell you the most expensive stuff they got and will put down any other low end paint for that end...Now I'm not saying they'll lye but watch how they do it(its funny) they remind me of a used car salesman....

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americanLT1

Discussion Starter · #15 · Aug 29, 2009

The dupont distributor here actually informed me I could paint my car cheaper with nason vrs cromabase but I've heard that the coverage isn't as good. Nason may be a better choice for me since I'm not experienced and single stage is tempting if I knew there wouldn't be much difference in finish quality.
I bought a quart of nason ss to paint a few brackets and had a bit of trouble with orange peel using a finishline gun and I'm sure most of it's my lack of experience. When I paint the car I'll be using a sata NR2000 1.3 that I purchased a couple years ago but haven't used mainly because I apparently don't have enough air flow for it but was not aware of when I bought it.

There are so many things that can go wrong when your an amature painter it is a bit scary considering the cost of materials and the labor involved. This is why I ask a bunch of questions before diving in. Also, cost is more of an issue than it was when I started this project as this lousy economy has hit hard in my home so, I'm open for suggestions on saving without too much compomise.

Ed

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kenseth17

· #16 · Aug 29, 2009

If you are considering a cheaper base, I'd look into either pro-spray or utech. Both are polyester based (chromabase is a polyester) like the better lines of base are instead of enamel like nason, but run cheaper then dbc or chromabase. I haven't had the chance to use them much yet, but so far they are the best of the lower cost bases I've used. I haven't ever used nason's basecoat, but omni and limco has been very disappointing in the past in terms of coverage and both being a slower drying enamel base. Any paint can be a poor match or bad coverer even in the better lines, but the lower cost lines typically aren't the best coverers or matching.
But that being said, when I looked at the original color (I used silver though) on the car and what I sprayed in the pro spray it appeared pretty dang close, and if I had not been doing a complete, it appeared there wouldn't be much problem getting a blendable match. Covered well too. And was half the price per quart as what I was quoted for ppg dbc. I've been able to get a few blendable matches with limco, but the amount of extra work typically required isn't worth it, the polyester bases are so much nicer to work with.
Prospray can be tough to find. No one carries it near me, but chad who is a member here and on spi forum carries it, and may be able to set you up and ship to you. The Utech might be a little easier to find at a supplier near by, as it may be found at someone handling the sikkens akzo nobel lines.

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mike the painter

· #17 · Aug 30, 2009

dupont fulthane is urathane it always covers in two coats but I put three then sand and buff.... SPI was better but also low in cost

millercustomfab

· #18 · Aug 30, 2009

You do need to do your research on the paint lines and prices before you go to the supplier. I have seen folks here walk out of their supplier with a clear, twice the activator they need for it and reducer for a clear that doesnt use reducer. If your clear is a 4 to 1 ratio, you dont need a qt of activator for a qt of clear. But take your time, as it is a fairly expensive task already, and it wouldnt hurt to spend a decent amount of time with your gun and a few test panels getting your gun set up. I'm pretty heavy handed with the clear so when using a cheaper gun, i'll normally turn my paint flow down and slow down my travel speed. It takes a little bit to get you gun tuned to the way you spray but its worth it.

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