Hot Rod Forum banner
41 - 60 of 67 Posts

·
©®™
Joined
·
1,306 Posts
Rob Keller said:
Hey Y'all
I know this is a Old thread but seems to have most of all the necessary info for POR~15.
:
You haven't searched enough. This thread does not have near the amount of information on the POR15 [email protected]
I might use it on patio furniture but that would be about it.
If I were going to buy a classic car and it had one drop of POR15 on it, I would run as fast as I could.

It is a must to read this entire thread. Be prepared, it may take you an hour to read it.
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/rust-what-acceptable-permanent-ways-get-rid-47303.html?highlight=POR
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,920 Posts
Roger, I just sat through the whole 12 pages again! :drunk: Brings back some memories and reminds me once again of why I would never use POR again. back when that thread started I was in the middle of researching ways to deal with rust and I got involved in that mess because the timing was coincidental with what I was doing. At that time I had coated the rust free (sandblasted) underside of my Mustang with POR15 because of the things I had read about it but I could not help but be a little skeptical of any new "miracle cure". Since that time I have not only come to understand why products like epoxy are far better for clean metal but I am more convinced than ever that treating and leaving rust is a P%$$ poor way of doing things! Use POR/Rust Bullet and the rust is GONE? :confused: Think about that, where did it go? The fact is it went nowhere and is still right where it was just waiting for the chance to erupt again. Since that thread started about 4 years ago I have personally seen several failures of these rust "cures" on the old Mustangs that I work on as a hobby. One in particular from about a year ago is a prime example where POR 15 was used to treat rust on the rear floor under the seat. This commonly rusted area is often "treated" with these miracle concoctions but it has failed in every single case I have seen because of one very important consideration that is all too often overlooked, it CAN NOT somehow magically creep into seams and other areas where rust is trapped and that is where the major problems with rust are in the first place. This particular 66 coupe had already been painted, inside and out, and the owner was shocked at how much rust was now under his rear seat. The rusting was discovered while replacing the exhaust and was seen as staining on his new paint underneath but when we removed the rear seat and started picking at the por "repaired" :rolleyes: section the damage quickly became apparent. The rust trapped between the seams had continued, indeed probably accelerated due to contamination from the POR acid treatment used prior to application, and had caused the POR to start to peel in this area. When we started scraping the POR there were substantial areas that came off easily due to rusting underneath caused by the moisture getting under it from the seam area that had been painted over but not down into the insides of the seams where it can never reach! That is the major problem with this junk, even if it did truly stop rust it is impossible to "treat" trapped rust and the rust you can easily get to with a brush or spray gun is only part of the problem. Paint with POR 15 or Rust Bullet and the rust is GONE? Yeah right!
 
Joined
·
3,214 Posts
Paint with POR 15 or Rust Bullet and the rust is GONE
Red... That, unfortunately is the childish mentality we keep running into here anymore. Just cover the rust up and it is repaired. If you can't see it, it don't exist.

I myself am always looking for an easier or cheaper way to do things, and am willing to learn all I can on most any subject. I guess I have been lucky to have been able to see how well those prducts don't work without me having to do the testing, and purchasing the products myself thru the vehicles I have had to work on. People are always saying that each product has been tested on oil rigs, bridges, or even the space shuttle, and such. The fact is that anyone that could actually come up with a product to stop or remove rust would quickly become rich. I could advertise a 9 volt battery that would remove and stop rust for sale for $20 and sell thousands of them with a guarantee. Since about 1 in 20 would return them when they didn't work, it would be a money maker. That is the same deal with the miracle cures.

Aaron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Guys,
Here's my two cents worth on POR-15. It is a good product......when used as it is supposed to be used, and the parts to be coated prepped accordingly. I've never used Rust Bullet, but I'm sure it's probably okay too. A person can't paint over rust and expect it to just go away. You might as well use Rustoleum rattle-can paint. I bought the kit of degreaser, metal ready and black coating. I sandblasted everything on my 40 Chevy that I was going to coat; frame, front suspension parts, rear end housing, top and bottom of the car floors, etc. getting rid of as much rust as I possibly could. I applied the degreaser, then the metal ready, per the instructions, then applied two coats of POR-15. I did this about 4 years ago now and, so far, everything still looks great. There probably are as good or better products out there...technology does go on....but this does work pretty well.
 
Joined
·
3,214 Posts
Marc... You could have simply wiped the surfaces with wax and grease remover after the blasting and applied a quality epoxy primer and been as well off or better. The fact that the epoxy will stay somewhat flexible, which means less likely to crack from flexing makes it a better solution. The POR will get cracks in the hard surface and allow air and moisture to penetrate. This allows rust for some time when it looks just fine. When the POR does come off, there is serious rust damage under it. I have seen this before.

Of course the manufacturer will say that there was something that you did wrong. :D

Aaron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,920 Posts
Adtkart, You beat me to it on that one! I find that epoxy seems to work quite well in a case such as that and it is much easier to work with than POR 15. It seems whenever the POR fails there is always the same excuse that it was not applied right but try to tell that to the guy who owns the 66 Mustang I was talking about earlier. He followed the instructions to the letter and IMHO that actually caused bigger problems and is what I was talking about when I said before that the rust in the seams was probably accelerated by the prep work. That acid wash (Metal Ready) got into those seams where it could not be practically removed and then there was the problem of the water that was soaked in on top of that. The water had to be used since it is required that the Metal Ready has to be rinsed off but again what about those seams? :pain: How would you wash that crap out of the inside of a door for instance without getting it into tight areas and seams, not many places where the rust would be conveniently located on an open area without seams or other tight areas involved. In the case of the Mustang the floor was prepped EXACTLY according to instructions but in less than 6 months he had a bigger mess than when he started. Not only did the rust start to swell up between the seams but it then spread under the layer of POR that was applied to the floor and the top of the torque box leaving the POR to peel off in sheets. (The POR peeled off in sheets, haven't we head that several times before?) I have yet to hear from anyone about how this stuff is supposed to crawl into inaccessible places like the seams (there's that word again) and stop rust it can't even touch. Paint over rust and it's gone? Nope only a few thousandths of an inch under that thin layer of shinny paint is that soft, powdery, ugly mess just waiting to come back to haunt you. Gone? I think not!



Edit-I had referred to a little test I had done but after thinking about it I realized I was doing exactly what I said I would not do. :spank: This kind of testing is just too crude and uncontrolled to have enough real meaning to be used in a discussion such as this. My test was never intended to disprove any claims made by any product anyway and in fact was only done out of my own curiosity as to how well epoxy would protect from further corrosion on lightly rusted metal. Also let me point out that of the three test panels using two products neither of the two products have actually failed so far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
rust bullet

The rust bullet does not cure rust . It bonds chemically with the rust and anywhere it can bond with ferrous oxide in the open with all the loose stuff knocked off it will displace the water, bond with the rust, and disrupt the chemical reaction so that rust cannot increase. If you have rust in tight folded areas that the rust bullet cannot get to, the the reaction carries on. If it wasn,t so G.D expensive I would paint all my metal with it .It really sucks on I,ll tell ya.
Clint
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,920 Posts
price said:
If you have rust in tight folded areas that the rust bullet cannot get to, the the reaction carries on.Clint

And the rust left in there is OK then? That is the same problem as with the POR15 even if it did stop the rust you can easily brush or spray it on the car is still rotting apart in the seams! In almost every case of body rust that has gone too far to sand or grind off seams and folds or other inaccessible areas will be involved so are these just supposed to be ignored? That is exactly what happens most of the time when POR or Rust Bullet is used and is exactly why most of them fail. Again no matter what you cover it up with POR15, Rust Bullet or whatever the rust is STILL THERE! If you started with a rusty car and use this crap then no matter how much time, effort and money you put into it the dang thing is STILL GOING TO BE JUST AS RUSTY! Just as with that Mustang the rust will come back and of the ones I have seen the hidden rust is where it reappears first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,177 Posts
Try this, it will do what you want.

http://www.kimballmidwest.com/Catalog/CatalogIndex.aspx?p=4030

It is thin enough to get into cracks, converts the rust to black oxide, hardens, and is paintable.

Used by the semi-tractor industry to treat the rusted tractor frames (that run in salt country all the time).

I have treated a heavily pitted deck lid with it, finished the panel to show like quality using PPG base/clear and am awaiting the next 10 years of it sitting outside to see if it lasts. LOL

oh ya, only $ 81 gallon + shp, and that will go a long long way.

(sort of similar to the Eastwood stuff, but easier to use)
 

·
©®™
Joined
·
1,306 Posts
ScoTFrenzel said:
Try this, it will do what you want.

http://www.kimballmidwest.com/Catalog/CatalogIndex.aspx?p=4030

It is thin enough to get into cracks, converts the rust to black oxide, hardens, and is paintable.

Used by the semi-tractor industry to treat the rusted tractor frames (that run in salt country all the time).

I have treated a heavily pitted deck lid with it, finished the panel to show like quality using PPG base/clear and am awaiting the next 10 years of it sitting outside to see if it lasts. LOL

oh ya, only $ 81 gallon + shp, and that will go a long long way.

(sort of similar to the Eastwood stuff, but easier to use)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,920 Posts
ScoTFrenzel said:
It is thin enough to get into cracks, converts the rust to black oxide, hardens, and is paintable.


SURE it will! :rolleyes: Ospho by any other name is still Ospho, or maybe Rust Mort, or etc. Just another Phosphoric acid solution that does have it's uses such as REMOVING rust if used properly. Let it seep into seams and crevices where it will come into contact with ALL the rust in there (yeah right!) and that rust will be converted never to be a problem again, haven't we heard all this before? :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,391 Posts
There are believers.......and the rest of us. Yep, I tried it - it looked good, felt good and might have even tasted good. But what it didn't do was 'cure' my rust problem. That was many years ago and on a car that 'needed help'. I'm thinking that if you had some minor pitting with a very small amount of surface rust and on a flat surface, it might work to some extent. If you have crumbly rust and seams that have crunchy rot, this stuff WILL NOT WORK. Rusty steel is just that - rusty and compromised steel as far as looks and strength. It will look good for a while - but the problem will still be there. Rust never sleeps.

{Psst - I gotta a tip on a great money making paint deal - yah wanna get in on it - just send me 10,000 dollars and you'll be the first to get a dividend (that is right after me)} :nono: :D

Dave W
 
Joined
·
3,214 Posts
YEP!!!!! Everyone of those miricle cures is used by some industry to cure their rust problems. If they really worked, can you imagine how much those industries would save by not needing to buy new equipment? They would use the product one time, it would cure the rust problem, they would spend whatever to keep that equipment running where it didn't need replacement.

BTW... Most trucking complanies require that their equipment be kept clean to avoid corrosion problems.

Aaron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,177 Posts
adtkart said:
BTW... Most trucking complanies require that their equipment be kept clean to avoid corrosion problems.

Aaron

Cruise a few truck stops and see how clean and rust free semi tractor frames are. :thumbup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,920 Posts
ScoTFrenzel said:
Cruise a few truck stops and see how clean and rust free semi tractor frames are. :thumbup:

Also take a look at how thick they are.

Thats what some guys seem to overlook and that is that when metal rusts it loses part of it's mass and when something as thin as body sheetmetal rusts, heavy enough to scale and pit anyway, it can easily wind up way less than half as thick as when new. So even if you could stop the rust the only way to get the strength back is to replace the metal. Rust is SERIOUS damage and you can no more paint it away than you could paint over dents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
747 Posts
38ChevyCoupe said:
I purchased a gallon of this por 15 to paint my frame with, I thought it would take most of it but I put 2 coats on and only used about a quart it went on so easy I had to tell you guys. I was wondering if anyone else has used this stuff and what you thought about it
I like it too, but I recently tried KBS Rust Seal and like it better. It seemed to be a little thicker and still flowed very well. Both products are really good.
 
Joined
·
3,214 Posts
ScoTFrenzel said:
Cruise a few truck stops and see how clean and rust free semi tractor frames are. :thumbup:
I can do better than that. I drove a long haul truck for a couple of years. Spent many hours in truck stops and I know what trucks look like. DOT regulations are very strict on the condition of the frames on trucks that are on the highways. I don't see any REPUTABLE Trucking companies covering corrosion on their truck frames.

Aaron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
The Europeans are the experts on what to use to both repair rust and prevent it .All tests I've seen done,On steel samples in controlled tests with all sorts of factors included,have indicated only one product that works and neither Rust bullet or POR 15 came anywhere near it.
Dinitrol
 
41 - 60 of 67 Posts
Top