[M&M CUSTOM]

I have done extensive searching on this subject both in the knowledge base, and all over the internet, to little avail.

I am more interested in seeing if it can even be done, not completele shutting off the gasoline supply, but adding a stream of propane into the intake to replace some of the amount of gasoline needed to run an engine correctly.

I forsee this only realistically possible on a MPFI/SPFI fuel injected engine that can more accurately sense A/F mixtures and reduce the injector firing time to make up for the added fuel.

This is mostly for highway cruising as an attempt to save fuel possibility.

Would a propane carburetor with reduced pressures 3-4oz compared to the standard 6 oz pressure do anything desireable if added before the throttle body?

Or do I have another wild idea that needs to actually meet reallity again?

I forgot to mention, all I really found for results on this subject were for small engines, and diesels.

 

[tm454]

Just like with the Nitrous...it's a rolling bomb in my mind!!! Good luck!


Tazz


Rat Rods Rule!

 

[MARCELO URUGUAY]

YOU CAN DO IT

IN ARGENTINA (SOUTH AMERICA) LOTS OF PEOPLE USES GAS IN THEIR VEHICLES, MOSTLY IN TAXIS. YOU CAN EVEN SHUT OFF THE GASOLINE.
IT KILLS PERFORMANCE BUT FOR CRUISING IT`S OK. LOOK FOR INFORMATION ABOUT "GAS VEHICULAR" IN ANY LATIN SERVER.

 

[Max Keith]

propane engine

In my area, there used to be a fellow that sold propane conversions for cars. They worked great, but as was mentioned, they lost about 5-10% on power doing it. I do know this guy spent a lot of time working with different cam profiles to see if propane worked better with wider or narrower lobe separations. Unfortunately Ive lost track of the guy and dont know what his conclusions were. I do know that he did own 2-3 different vehicles and they were all run on propane, starting them on gasoline.

 

[1BAD80]

Qualified conversion contractors can convert almost any gasoline-powered vehicle to propane. Conversions cost between $2,500 and $3,500 - a cost that would quickly be recovered through lower maintenance and fuel costs associated with using propane. Part of these conversion costs may be deducted from federal taxable income. Also, more automakers are responding to increased demand for alternative-fueled vehicles by manufacturing factory-equipped propane-powered vehicles.
For more information on conversions, go to the U.S. Dept. of Energy's Alternative Fuel Data Center Web site.

Most collages will have it for enviormental improvements.
For some research,
http://franzh.home.texas.net/engine.html
http://www.eng-tips.com/index.cfm
http://www.propanecouncil.org/newsroom/press_releaseDetail.cfv?id=29
http://www.mipga.org/Vehicle.htm
http://usepropane.com/find/locator_action
http://www.hawaiigas.com/propane/
http://www.mrsharkey.com/lpg.htm
http://www.hocongas.com/Commercial/engine.htm

 

[TurboS10]

It can be done, but I would just convert it and forget gas if you are trying to save money. My Dad ran several vehicles on propane when I was growing up and I must say it is a good alternative fuel. Propane burns very clean and that is great for engine life. You can change oil on a propane burning engine and the oil is still almost perfectly clean after 5000 miles. We put a junk, and I mean JUNK, 305 in my dads surburban that did not hold oil pressure from the time we cranked it up. It idled at 0 psi when warm to give you an idea of the quality of this engine. He ran the engine for 150,000 miles on propane before trading in the still running engine that used very little oil.

Chris

 

[Max Keith]

propane

I am curious, outside the benefits of cleaner burning and running engine, were there any benefits considering fuel mileage? The loss of 5-10% of the hp isnt a big deal when you have a pretty horsy engine, but if the mileage of a pound of liquid propane is compareable to or better than that with gasoline, that would be an added benefit. Just wondering what the fuel cost per mile was compared to gasoline.

Is it true that propane vehicles go down the road, with an exhaust thats smells like the vehicle has a severe case of flatulence?

 

[TurboS10]

Propane fuel economy goes down for sure. I think that you will loose 15-20%, but I am not 100% sure. You should talk to Propaniac(member on hotrodders). He knows alot about this stuff. Might just nudge him to respond to this thread.

Chris

 

[Max Keith]

propane

kewl

I just happen to remember, back in the mid 70's, Hot Rod magazine did an extensive article on Propane conversions.
I dont remember the exact year or month. The conversion they did was on an El Camino.

 

[1BAD80]

Taken from the sites above a little info on propane.
Farmers can enjoy immediate cost savings when they make the switch to propane gas, For example, one equipment distributor in California's San Joaquin Valley claims that farms that have switched to propane-fueled irrigation systems have saved as much as 20 to 30 percent when purchasing new engines. After the engines are paid off, the savings are expected to jump to 30 to 40 percent, depending on utilization.
The RPM of a propane-fueled engine, however, can be powered up or down by adjusting fuel rate. Thus, the engine's torque and horsepower output can be regulated to meet specific irrigation requirements. Specific torque output can be computed using torque curves provided with the engine.
Additionally, propane-driven engines offer several operational advantages over their gasoline or diesel counterparts. Because they run much cleaner internally than gasoline or diesel motors, propane engines generally require less maintenance. Parts, as well as oil, remain clean much longer and require replacement less frequently.

Range:
Superior to methanol, ethanol, and compressed natural gas (CNG), a 25-gallon propane tank can take a vehicle farther than 25 gallons of any other alternative fuel; almost twice as far as methanol and four times as far as CNG.

Miles Per Gallon (MPG):
Delivers up to 90% of gasoline's MPG, against only 21% for CNG, 54% for methanol, and 70% for ethanol.

Clean Burning:
Propane is clean burning. Because of this oil changes are needed less often and spark plugs can last from 80,000 to 105,000 miles. This reduces maintenance costs to less than those of a gasoline-fueled vehicle. Propane leaves no sludge, varnish, or carbon deposits in a properly turned engine, which is common in gasoline and diesel-powered automobiles. Because of this clean-burning characteristic, propane engines can operate two to three times longer than gasoline and diesel engines between tune-ups.

Engine Performance:
Propane is a premium unleaded fuel with a high pump octane rating of 104, without additives. The higher the octane the higher the fuel's antiknock properties, and the better the engine performance.

The site's are above for learning if one want's more info about it.
:thumbup:

 

["70" Cougar]

In my case

I have a 79 F250 4x4 camper special it has a 429 with a C6 tranny and its on propane . Yes it does stink but its only when you stick the exhaust tips in your nose or when you fill up . other then that its not too bad . you have to put hardened seats in the heads for the hotter running . but yess you get better mileage. I can drive all week in town on about $20.oo can. but get her on the highway and it about $50.oo can. for a 2 hour drive , but i think its my tranny or gears that makes it worse. Also if you loose your rad fluid your propane regulator freezes up and you stop. I just dealt with this ( lost a block heater) But other then these things it starts up beautiful every single morning noon and night.

 

[propaniac]

M&M

Yeah it would be pretty easy to do what you are thinking about. You could use an impco vaporizer that works on a vacuum to add fuel to your engine with an adjustable valve to control amount of fuel. You will also need some sort of venturi or carb to mix the fuel with the incoming air.( I have a couple of Ideas for this if you want, gonna need a mill though). I am just not too sure if it would work that well. I would suggest only having the propane on during highway cruise like you were thinking. Having it on all the time would freak the computer during startup, and you might have some backfire problems under hard acceleration.

If you want to give it a try let me know.

I have recently found a propane injection system that is awesome. Fuel mileage is within 1 mpg to gas and you can not feel any power difference between gas and propane. I was trying to put together something similar but a guy from the Netherlands beat me to it. I have it installed on one of my delivery trucks and it works great. I am going to be installing another one on my 98 BB truck. I will have pics and stuff when I start, just a little too busy now to play.


Anyway let me know

John

 

[paulo]

M&M. Gas conversions have pros and cons.Down here in Brazil governement is subsidizing CNG to cut on petroleum import.Most kits sell for around $1000 and take a day to install.On computerized cars the kit has to cheat the computer to think it is still pulsing the injectors but it runs fine.A local shop ran research tests on a chassis dyno and with the addition of a Unichip kit they got more power than on gasoline!The reason was a spark curve that allowed to explore the incredible octane rating of gas.We even ran a S10 2.2L with a turbo and gas.It was an amazing thing to drive.The more boost we gave the more it liked.It ran as strong as a 4.3L! Here we even have a Pick up race class with Ranger/Dakota/S10 running on gas only.And they kick ***!Good luck.

 

[Old School Nut]

i cant realy add to all this but i do know that hot rod or chevy high performance had a feature on a drag car in i think the 80's that ran on propane.... i will look for it at my friends place.. btw, can you use a propane vaporiser for methane?

 

[bigolblackie]

I used to drive propane powered Chevy Caprice taxicabs in the 90s,in fact I drove one of the first propane cabs in Toronto,and maybe all of Canada. I noticed the improvements that were made over the years back then,so by nowadays,things must be very advanced. The first cab was made much like a hotrod,they realy tried there best to make it work. It had headers and a very free flowing exhust{no cat} ex police car 350 v8. Back then propane was only around 10cents for a litre.{ do the math,for gallon conversion?} It seemed to me the car was damn fast,and had plenty of power,but it would suck back the propane at my estimation,at a little under twice as much as the gas cars. That was a long time ago.so maybe things have improved by now. I would think if you set the car up with gas miliage in mind,you will get better miliage,but you definatly can have good performace. Another thing i rememberis the car would never get stuck in the snow hardly,because the tanks were between, above the rear axle,it would drive right through 6" of snow no problem,meanwile others would get stuck,on the same path.:thumbup:

 

[Max Keith]

propane

The conversion rate is 3.8 liters per gallon. You do the math.

 

[propaniac]

Hey old school was this the car you saw? If so I am trying to find out some info on it for a friend of mine,( its his car)

If it is let me know

John

 

[Old School Nut]

no thats not it, but i looks pretty dang wicked! i would realy be interested in seing more pics of it and how it works... i love hydrolics, gas lines, electromechanical valves and stuff like that, looks like that car has a bunch of goodies!