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Looking for a chassis that is not to expensive around one grand that is low enough (2-3 inch clearance more or less) something that is easy to work with and preferbally has alot of the stuff attached like suspension or is easily workable
 

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welder ?

If you have a welder build a basic T bucket frame out of 2 X 3 tubing !88 wall. The last 2 T chassis I built I used CCR's blue prints. For a low rat you would have to Z the front and more Kick in the rear. Have you read the eBook Cboy wrote , click on the top of the page . He used a lot of parts off a Ford f 100.
 

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front Z

A front Z allows you to use a suspension like the one shown but lower the body. some cars of the 30's have a curved front frame rails. My son's 36 plymouth has enough curve in the frame so that a stock height Mustang II crosmember will have it down in the weeds with out having to buy dropped spindles . When I was at BO HUFF's shop they had templates to make curved Z drops.. they made the curved side plates , and trimmed the Rect tubing just below the rounded edge formed it to match the new contour, They look good, like most of bo's projects. If you check out some of the Rat rod forums, or Hamb you will see lots of rat chassis builds.
 

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randy's red chassis.

The red one is very similar to the CCR chassis. You should also check out Speedway, they now offer some new chassis designs to complete "kits".
 

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The front end I used on this build was from Speedway... 6'' drop stainless steel front end... These frames are the easiest frames you can build and doesn't take much money to build it.... Now if you add all the goodies,, It can add up fast... Keep it simple and the cost will be much lowwer..
 

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The front end I used on this build was from Speedway... 6'' drop stainless steel front end... These frames are the easiest frames you can build and doesn't take much money to build it.... Now if you add all the goodies,, It can add up fast... Keep it simple and the cost will be much lowwer..
Some rodders have told me that when you get into the really serious axle drops, like the 6" you have here, you get into some bump steer problems. Is that true? How do you fix that?
 

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Some rodders have told me that when you get into the really serious axle drops, like the 6" you have here, you get into some bump steer problems. Is that true? How do you fix that?
Tech... What I have learn about it... Is You don't want any slack any where's for one... And you want the steering rod that leave's the box going to the front Passing through the mounting point of the radius rod.. (as close as possible) This I hear is important..But seen many not even close.. Not sure if I said it where it makes any sense...

Also the toe in has something to do with some of it as well... On T-bucket's,, Sometimes you have to play a little with toe in and sometimes it work's better with toe out... Seen it work both ways on t-buckets... Hope this made sense...
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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Looking for a chassis that is not to expensive around one grand that is low enough (2-3 inch clearance more or less) something that is easy to work with and preferbally has alot of the stuff attached like suspension or is easily workable
Check out Randy's build of the frame on his C cab, it's very do-able! Click here


Brian
 

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basic tools needed

YOu can build your rat rod with a few basic tools., In the mid 50's We had an arc welder in the old Blacksmith shop on the ranch. a bench grinder, hand held grinder, electric drill, and wrenches. We had a big Farm Forklift for stacking hay . it was nice to be able to lift a car body or engine-trans the easy way. I learned to soak 6011 arc rod in water, turn up the amps and burn with the arc, heat and poke metal to make the rough cuts , then finish with a grinder. today you can buy import tools that usually last for one project. just work fast so the 90 day waranty is still good. I bought a used Lincoln "tombstone" arc welder on Craigs list for $75 last summer that I can haul down to the pump on the farm where I have a power pole. My shop welders are big and heavy ani I need a fork lift to move them.
 

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Bump steer

T bucket Bump steer is usually caused by one or 2 things or a combination . The hairpins and drag link from the gear box should be the same length and parallel. they should swing in the same arc. Some of the old dragsters had a very long drag link and if you see some old picture of a launch with the front wleels up they point sideways as the front end comes off the ground . One fix was to have a center pivot link at the hairpin pivot area and a 2 piece drag link. In one of Coddington's books he diagramed the geometry when an old T bucket had the verticle steering column, Quite a bit of space between the pivot locations . The drag link was mounted low at the steering gear and ran up to the front axle.. passing over from the side view, the pivot point of the hair pins, Not ideal but it reduced bump steer.
The second thing is ackerman angle . backwards akerman with the tie rod mounted in front using spindles designed for rear tie rod Can cause bump steer with wide tires when turning on a bumpy road The front tire on the ground determines which way the bump wants to take you. Front tie rod is used on a lot of T buckets, and with narrow front tires your inertia keeps you going the same direction. I have had cars change lanes when the geometry was wrong. on bumpy curves. Both times the car went the direction I needed to go to advoid a crash. SOMEONE was looking out for me.
 

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The second thing is ackerman angle . backwards akerman with the tie rod mounted in front using spindles designed for rear tie rod Can cause bump steer with wide tires when turning on a bumpy road The front tire on the ground determines which way the bump wants to take you. Front tie rod is used on a lot of T buckets, and with narrow front tires your inertia keeps you going the same direction. I have had cars change lanes when the geometry was wrong. on bumpy curves. Both times the car went the direction I needed to go to advoid a crash. SOMEONE was looking out for me.
Never once did I see this cause bump steer... MANY t-bucket's run this set up for YEAR'S and still do.... And I never seen One yet change lanes...SORRY... I ran Mustang II spindle's turn backwards added the rack on the back side AND ran a Spool with 18.50's out back and this car WOULDN'T even change lanes on a WET road.. No sign's what so ever on ANY steering problems,,, Car drove better then many new cars I ever drove.... Plus this car WAS driven EVERYDAY..And never really seen anything under 75mph Unless the sign on side the road said so....Guess someone was with we as well..;)

I been down this road with this ACKERMAN CRAP here before... :nono:

Oh !!!! And I never worn out my tires either like some will say you will do...

Here's the frame it was done with and the car...


 

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opps !

Brian and I had a lot of comment last time when had this discussion , I did not want to stir things up again. I admire your builds. your creativity and have refered people to check out what you have done and at my age I can't make pretty welds like I used to . or what you do. I still tend to look at a car and after the first look admiring it say I would have done it different. That comes from being on the design review board . going over page after page of new Auto designs and finally signing the bottom of the blueprint. There are certain things that have worked and not worked since the horse got put out to pasture. Detroit did not always get it right and a few of us guys with more experience finally got to review what the kids were coming up with. Brian and I in the previous threads were pointing out that when ever possible a new builder should follow tried and true design criteria, I every once in a while look at some of my Society of Automotive Engineers Journals from the 1920's I have in my collection. A rat rod with 6.00 - 16 tires is going to handle differently than your roadster with "steam roller" tires. When I was the leader of a team of 6 engineers, we used to have a preliminary meeting and review each persons part of the project and everybody give input. One guy that was new to the team used to get very upset when someone made a comment that "I think you should do it this way."
An older engineer said calm down WE want this project to be a winner and everybody has different ideas and we can pick out the best way before we present it to upper management. I still think the early mustangs were the best built cars Ford Made
 

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Brian and I had a lot of comment last time when had this discussion , I did not want to stir things up again. I admire your builds. your creativity and have refered people to check out what you have done and at my age I can't make pretty welds like I used to . or what you do. I still tend to look at a car and after the first look admiring it say I would have done it different. That comes from being on the design review board . going over page after page of new Auto designs and finally signing the bottom of the blueprint. There are certain things that have worked and not worked since the horse got put out to pasture. Detroit did not always get it right and a few of us guys with more experience finally got to review what the kids were coming up with. Brian and I in the previous threads were pointing out that when ever possible a new builder should follow tried and true design criteria, I every once in a while look at some of my Society of Automotive Engineers Journals from the 1920's I have in my collection. A rat rod with 6.00 - 16 tires is going to handle differently than your roadster with "steam roller" tires. When I was the leader of a team of 6 engineers, we used to have a preliminary meeting and review each persons part of the project and everybody give input. One guy that was new to the team used to get very upset when someone made a comment that "I think you should do it this way."
An older engineer said calm down WE want this project to be a winner and everybody has different ideas and we can pick out the best way before we present it to upper management. I still think the early mustangs were the best built cars Ford Made
Thanks.. It's all good.. I may not be a Chassis Engineer.. But I have tested That Ackerman theory a little on the street and not out a book or on a drawwing board... I'm sure if you was doing some road course racing you would for sure see the difference.. I won't say you won't... But I did test this on the street along with running a spool on the street, (With pro street cars)

Now as far as the Ackerman,, Yes you will get a little tire scrub when you ture very sharp gone very slow,,(I get that on both,My 1999 GMC truck, And my 2000 Yukon) And that's ENGINEERED automobile !!!! Go figure..LOL.. ,,, But What I will say is you DON'T see it and everyday driving, And that I will defend.. Not trying to fight with anyone about this subject, And I won't,, But Like I said, I didn't do drawwing on a board or took what I read out a book,, I tested this,, Is it right, Maybe not... But it does work and pretty well I must say.... Now if you get the toe in or out wrong,,, That WILL let you know very fast..:D


Things that mean more to get right then the Ackerman,,

1.Caster..
2.Camber..
3.Toe in..(sometimes it has to be out)..
4.Your steering rod....

These are the MOST important things to get right when setting up your frames,,
I would say if you can get your Ackerman right, Do so,,, ;)
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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As poorly as I convey my thoughts I can see why others would feel I am saying "YOU ARE WRONG" when often I'm simply saying "I have another idea". I also know I will say "YOU ARE WRONG" and I hope others see beyond my poor attitude and see it as "I have another idea". This makes my poor attitude my problem and not theirs. But honestly, usually I mean "I have another idea". :sweat:

Brian
 

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As poorly as I convey my thoughts I can see why others would feel I am saying "YOU ARE WRONG" when often I'm simply saying "I have another idea". I also know I will say "YOU ARE WRONG" and I hope others see beyond my poor attitude and see it as "I have another idea". This makes my poor attitude my problem and not theirs. But honestly, usually I mean "I have another idea". :sweat:

Brian
Like I said.. I TESTED THIS...:D
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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Thanks.. It's all good.. I may not be a Chassis Engineer.. But I have tested That Ackerman theory a little on the street and not out a book or on a drawwing board... I'm sure if you was doing some road course racing you would for sure see the difference.. I won't say you won't... But I did test this on the street along with running a spool on the street, (With pro street cars)

Now as far as the Ackerman,, Yes you will get a little tire scrub when you ture very sharp gone very slow,,(I get that on both,My 1999 GMC truck, And my 2000 Yukon) I won't say you don't,,, But What I will say is you DON'T see it and everyday driving, And that I will defend.. Not trying to fight with anyone about this subject, And I won't,, But Like I said, I didn't do drawwing on a board or took what I read out a book,, I tested this,, Is it right, Maybe not... But it does work and pretty well I must say.... Now if you get the toe in or out wrong,,, That WILL let you know very fast..:D


Things that mean more to get right then the Ackerman,,

1.Caster..
2.Camber..
3.Toe in..(sometimes it has to be out)..
4.Your steering rod....

These are the MOST important things to get right when setting up your frames,,
I would say if you can get your Ackerman right, Do so,,, ;)
The toe out may somewhat make up for the lack of proper ackerman. When the inside tire is following a tighter curve than the outside which is does, it needs to be turned in more for that tighter curve than the outside wheel. Without ackerman it is at the very least turned the same as the outside wheel thus with toe out it could be making up for the lack of ackerman. What is really bad is when it has negative ackerman and the outside wheel is literally turning MORE than the inside wheel. Again, the toe out could make up for some of this, I don't know. There are many variables like tire width that can make a big difference on the effects of the lack of ackerman.

Brian
 

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road race time'

I spent a little time working on My good buddy, Bruce Cambern's 427 cobra . and he was very critical of everything. He worked his up way to be head of FORD SVO-Ford Racing before he retired. set the track record on the road race course at MIS. Won the 2009 optima and no one has yet came close to his times. and they wont let him race again ?? I am of the era when the Hotrods won the old road races south of the border . and always thought a hot rod should be able to out manuaver a sports car like they did in the old days. I went down to the Salt Lake Autorama show a coupe years ago and some one had a rat rod where they cut a Ford I beam in half turned it upside down and welded the center back together. None of the Geometry was right. center line thru the king pin, intersection point with tire contact point. castor point on road, etc. When I was in college I wrenched at a dealer ship , one of the other guy's brother built a 392 hemi powered stude for bonneville. I told him his front suspension was wrong, It started to dance and he got upside down close to 200 mph. He had already made one pass at 206, over the record and was making the back up run.
 
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