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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,
I have yet to find a forum on a vehicle site dedicated to cooling issues. So, I am going to ask you all here.
I have an S10, OEM V6.
I installed a pusher fan and removed the clutch fan. That freed up a lot of room.
Now I'd like to install transmission and steering coolers. I have properly sized fans to fit them, left over from another time, another place.
I do not want to slow air flow through the radiator going down the highway.
Should I space the coolers behind, and off the radiator a inch or two, or mount them somewhere else?
I use rubber beaker plugs for spacers, with zip ties, to mount them on the radiator. Been doing so for years without problems.
This is my first use of a pusher fan.
Thank you.
 

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I installed a pusher fan and removed the clutch fan. That freed up a lot of room.
That's a really good way to make the average 4.3L V6 S10 overheat. Just sayin. I'm pretty sure the same goes for the older 2.8L models.

The original fan and fan clutch system on the S10 is way more than adequate to cool the engine. The 4.3L V6 S10s with the automatic transmission are rated to tow up to 6,000 pounds. I use 1997 with the Vortec 4.3L V6 to tow over 5,000 pounds regularly with no overheating issues. Of course, I have replaced my fan clutch whenever I've replaced the water pump. Both are replaced together as a unit whenever either fails.

I do have a steering cooler (bigger than the stock one), and an add on transmission cooler. The transmission cooler has a pusher fan in front of it. The steering cooler is actually between another pusher fan and the AC condenser. I added the condenser fan first because the one weakness of the stock S10 fan is that it doesn't keep the AC condenser cool enough in hot summer weather. Both my auxiliary coolers are in front of the AC condenser on mine.
 

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Let start with the year and model of the S10 and what fan was in there. The 11 blade fan, if used, moves a lot of air there really isn’t anything on the market that comes close.

About the only place on the S10 to mount auxiliary heat exchangers is behind the bumper and it’s under skirt. Here you have to provide an air source with a shallow linear scoop or drilled or cut vent holes. Another is under the bed but that requires plumbing with long runs.

Bogie
 

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Yes but the radiator is supplying preheated air. The effectiveness of heat transfer depends on the temperature difference of air entering over the fins to the liquid temp in the tubes. The colder the air flow compared to the hot liquid the faster and larger the heat transfer to the passing air. The other answers are a larger surface area or higher air flow.

My experience with V8 swaps in these and other smaller things doesn't leave much space in these things even with pusher fans stuffed between grill and condenser or radiator. Even my Alfa Spider that swapped a Ford 302 while living in Houston I sacrificed the factory AC for the V8, I have different priorities than air conditioning and stereo’s in my personal vehicles.

If your have heating problems that occurred after a successful build I’d look to age related changes in the cooling system from then to present or to tune changes to the engine.

I havent paid much attention to the Chevy V6 from 97 to 06 so I really don’t know how compatible an 07 is if you’re running it of the 97 computer. So there is this question sitting here as well.

Bogie
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I swapped all the ye 97 stuff on the 06. I updated to the newer injectors..
My concern is keeping the transmission cool and not impeding air flow. Maybe I can mount them 8n front of the radiator support, sideways, to catch air. Put the fans behind them for non moving cooling.
 

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I have mounted them below the bed without issue. Or next to the transmission. Exhaust, fuel, and ground clearence will determine what will work.

Mount your fan on top of the coolier to prevent leaves etc from getting stuck.

As far as the radiatior fans 2 pullers can straddle a waterpump pulley and have a shroud 1/2" off the pulley bolts easily.
 

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I do not see in your posts why you switched from clutch fan to pusher fan, but this is a recipe for problems.
First a pusher fan, by definition, impedes airflow, especially at highway speed, when the fan is not needed, which is just what you say you want to avoid... Fans are also often better at pulling than pushing air, too.
Then, nearly nothing beats an OEM clutch fan/shroud for efficiency; it does eat some HP, but for moving air, it is the best.
Then, the usual way (and the way that usually works!) of mounting coolers is in front of the coolant radiator: right in front of the rad is the A/C condenser, then the trans/steering coolers. There should be a bit of space between each.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I wanted to avoid the conversation. I am trying this change. If it fails I will go to a puller fan of some sort.
I'm seeing how much power loss, before it ever reaches the wheels, that I can free up.
I haven't paid new for anything, and can resell what I've bought.
Eventually I want to try an electric water pump. I have all the brackets and accessories on hand from a fan belt, 4 barrel engine that was given to me. I just need a pump. I'd like a new, 55 gpm one, to be better able to cool at low rpm.
I run at low rpms. No racing for me. Eventually, maybe, I will add a low rpm cam and top end parts. I've never bought a cam or had an engine with a non factory one.
I have a lot of projects, all waiting on funding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Projects:
Get my CUCV 6.5 turbo with the towing build up back to running.
Build the 4 barrel 292 I6.
Build either the 3.0 mercruiser (making an intake is a pain). Or, build a 3.7 mercruiser.
Then find stuff to put them in.
I've a tractor or two needing rebuilds as well.
 

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I wanted to avoid the conversation. I am trying this change. If it fails I will go to a puller fan of some sort.
I'm seeing how much power loss, before it ever reaches the wheels, that I can free up.
I haven't paid new for anything, and can resell what I've bought.
Eventually I want to try an electric water pump. I have all the brackets and accessories on hand from a fan belt, 4 barrel engine that was given to me. I just need a pump. I'd like a new, 55 gpm one, to be better able to cool at low rpm.
I run at low rpms. No racing for me. Eventually, maybe, I will add a low rpm cam and top end parts. I've never bought a cam or had an engine with a non factory one.
I have a lot of projects, all waiting on funding.
The power consumption curve is very slow till the RPMs get high. If your reaching for cash and glory it’s something to worry about, if going to work on the interstate not so much.



Bogie
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I am looking for peak cooling at lower than racing rpms. The fan and water pump being belt driven, perform best at higher rpm. Electric out performs belt drive in the lower rpm range.
 

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I am looking for peak cooling at lower than racing rpms. The fan and water pump being belt driven, perform best at higher rpm. Electric out performs belt drive in the lower rpm range.

Um no.

A belt driven clutch fan will outperform electric at lower rpm in almost every case.

Your typical thermostatic clutch fan turns at 30% when free and around 80% when engaged.

It takes very little force to turn the fan when free. I recommend a 5 blade(sbc car) and if you can fit it a 7 blade(bbc truck). You will feel and depending on the shroud hear when a 7 blade comes on.

By comparasion a electric will keep your engine cool and there are some powerful motors out. But more powerful motor are going to draw more amps. Your trading the clutch fan using engine power for the alternatior using engine power.

At low rpm that clutch fan is going to perform great as it is thermostatic (temperature) engauged not rpm based.

If you have a electric motor(s) that can move as much air as a 7 blade then at low rpm they are going to tax the electrical at idle for extended periods(like crawing offroad). The reason is s10/s12 63/96ish are only rated at those rpm above 3000rpm. They do horrible at idle or low rpm speeds. It is just the curves. The CS series like a cs130 which bolts in place of most s10/12 have a much better low rpm curve.
Tons of threads and step by step writeups on swapping from a s10/12 to a cs130 alternatior that will allow allow heavy amp electric fans to run without issue.


Ok onto your clearance issue.
You can straddle 2 fans easily.
Here is 3 fans in a old(very low cost) setup in my basement.
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Rim Gas Automotive wheel system

I have even ran 4 fans.

I always to run a dual or perferably tripple pass radiatior or at the very least run a all aluminum radiatior.

I dont have a issue cutting up the core support to set the radiatior under the core support to gain clearence to run a clutch fan. Of course this means your running a closed radiatior with a remote fill in the upper line or such.

But you can generally straddle the fans in a way where you wont need to move the radiatior forward.

Once the radiatior and fans are covered I go a step further and run 1.5" copper pipe instead of hose or AN-16 line(1") The copper pipe sheds heat(be mindful of where you put your arms) and can not collapse. Of course this is only recommended for straights. Copper also looks nice when polished.

Before you think about running a 180 or less thermostat or none at all. I will tell you from experence you want a 195F thermostat. Very short thermodynamic lesson here. Basically, the hotter you keep the cylinders the less thermal losses you will have when that compressed gas/air mixture explodes. This means keeping those cylinders hotter(within reason) the more power your going to make.
You want cold (dense) air going into those cylinders for more oxygen. But the actual water surrounding those cylinders you want hot to lessen thermal losses.

A 195F thermostat will keep that engine around 200 to 210 for hours driving at 1000rpm offroad or hours running 4000rpm down the highway. Speaking from experence here. I have had 4.5x and even 5.xx gearing running down the highway without issue for hours. Basically stopping because of the single didgit mileage to refuel. But I am telling you what works from experence.




Now, onto the actual post about remote cooliers.
First off just like you dont want your coolant to cold you also dont want your transmission/engine oil to cold. It has a range it likes to run at. In most cases simply running a heat sink is enough to see a noticable drop in engine/transmission oil temps. The simple fact your increasing capacity by running lines to a remote heatsink will keep things cool. Once again you can use copper(nicopp not freezer line) to have the line shed heat as the oil passes through it. If course you still need to use rubber for the flexable areas. But using nicopp will avoid a oil line rubbing the frame between the clamps. Use clamps to secure any lines to save you headaches.

Generally a remote oil filter(plate setup) will give you enough cooling capacity. Transmission you can also use a remote filter on. These filters act as a heatsink while being a filter(additional filter with auto transmission) and can be placed in a easy to reach area. If the engine bay is tight in a s10 then positioning the filters under the bed can make for easy replacment. But generally the remote filters will fit in that area by the blower motor, against the firewall once the AC is deleted or by the headlight the battery is not next to.

Notice I did not mention electric fans with the remote filters. Because your adding capacity, and running lines that are sheding heat you will find those fans won't be needed or if on all the time will over cool the oil placing cold oil back into the hot engine.


Well on the topic of cooling we should talk about diff covers. It is often a area overlooked. But most covers are just a horrible design that causes aeration in the oil or prevents the oil from running over the top of the ring lubricating the pinion. Most stamped factory covers do a great job at lubrication and not that bad of a job at cooling.

When looking at aluminum cover you want a cover mimicking the inside of that factory stamped cover. Anything that has webbing or ribs on the inside where the factory cast cover is smooth(around the ring gear) is almost guaranteed to cause aeration and a loss of pinion lubrication.

This post is long. But only touches on the actual books written on the topic of cooling. Its one of those areas you can get advice on what to do. But every ride is diffrent and you need to see what works best of your ride.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Much of that I appreciate.
I'm a fan of cast iron diff covers. Any stiffness is good in an axle.
I already own several fluid coolers, tube and fin, channel and fin types.
I'm staying with electric fans. Going to try some out of a Malibu.
 

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I'm seeing how much power loss, before it ever reaches the wheels, that I can free up.
Power loss to a mechanical fan on a properly selected and operating as designed fan clutch is almost zero when measured by any practical means in an operating vehicle. It's within the noise level between runs.

Don't believe me, go to your local drag strip. Make 3 runs with the original factory fan and shroud in place. Then remove the fan clutch and fan (and shroud if you want) and make 3 runs that way. Report back all the time slips.

I did this on a local deserted highway (zero to speed limit 65 runs), using Torque Pro to measure the zero to 60mph times, and using my 10Hz GPS unit. Results were identical either way. It was in the noise from the sampling lining up with the exact time I started and the exact time I hit 60mph.

Any "dyno testing" showing significant losses to a mechanical fan is flawed. Usually, they bolt the fan blade directly to the water pump pulley, which means there is no disengagement. Also, they never have the air flow of the moving vehicle, which reduces the "lost hp" even more because the fan is doing less work (and using less HP) in faster moving air with the clutch disengaged.
 

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I have yet to ever get answers to questions asked.
I do have a steering cooler (bigger than the stock one), and an add on transmission cooler. The transmission cooler has a pusher fan in front of it. The steering cooler is actually between another pusher fan and the AC condenser. I added the condenser fan first because the one weakness of the stock S10 fan is that it doesn't keep the AC condenser cool enough in hot summer weather. Both my auxiliary coolers are in front of the AC condenser on mine.
Weird, because I answered your question back on the 20th. I put mine in front of the radiator and AC Condenser. I've never had an issue with cooling.

Of course, my fan and shroud are stock for the 1997 S10, with two pusher fans in front, one small one directly in front of transmission cooler triggered by refrigerant pressure or transmisssion temperature. The other triggered by refrigerant pressure or engine temperature, and I've never seen either of them triggered by the temperature sensors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sir, the comment was on the fact that a question gets asked and answers are given about something else. Your answers regarding your cooler placements was greatly appreciated.
Here, and on other sites, I have noticed if anyone, not just myself, ask a question regarding anything irregular, they are inundated with advice not at all asked for.
Example: "just put an LS in it". If I wanted to go V8, I would ask about that. If I wanted the belt driven fan, I wouldn't have said I going electric.
It is just plain annoying being second guessed.
Some of us are well aware of all the reasons not to, but still choose to walk uphill. Fully knowing we may achieve what little summit we have, for the satisfaction it gives us of having done so.
 
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