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Discussion Starter #1
pretty soon i want to upgrade the heads and cam to produce power. My goals for this engine are to have a daily driven 380-400 rwhp car. Its a 400 sbc not to sure on the year. It will be run on 93 octane gas all the time and i would like a 9.5-10:1 CR. I was thinking a pair of AFR 195 aluminum heads but i want a good cam for those to make power up to 6000-6500. I want this to be a serious street machine. Do you guys think i could make this power with the right set of heads/cam and intake to go with it. What do you guys recomend.

Thanks in advance,
Matt
 

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i would go with a set of AFR 210cc heads. to get that kind of rear wheel horse power, your gonna need a pretty health cam too. hydraulic roller would be best for a daily driver. i would go with around 250 duration cam @ .050" with around .550 lift with a 108 l/s angle. 10.0 compression. 400's like big heads & big cams. this should make right at 475-500 horse power @ the fly wheel, & still have sh!t loads of bottom end torque.
 

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I too agree with the AFR 210 heads. I currently have a car with a 11:1 383 with the comp package 210 heads (the $2000 ones) and that motor with a hydraulic roller cam with .236 .242 @.050 duration and .540 lift made 444 rwhp wtih a trubo 350 and and ford inch. I do beleive that my car is undercammed, so a little bigger one would work even better.

Adam
 

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Discussion Starter #4
so what stall do you guys recomend? i also think im gonna try to get an edelbrock Performer rpm EFI since this is my daily driver and dont want to get under 7 miles to the gallon. Do you guys think this will help in getting to my goal? Also what size combustion chambers are you running to get these 10:1 ratios and are you using flat top pistons or domed?
 

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i'm using dart heads with 72cc Chambers, with flat top pistons. i'm running right at 10.5 compression in my 400. as far as the stall, how heavy is the car that it's going in? what size rear gears? the efi set-up would be nice, but i don't know about the gas mileage. 500 horse power takes fuel to feed. i get about 5 miles to the gallon. but i dog the crap out of it too.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
its going in my 59 chevy apache id say it wieghs around 3700-3800 the rear gears are 2.73s but that could change.
 

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If you want a little more torque, which you might with a heavier vehicle, the 195's may be the way to go. On the other hand, if this is going to have street tires on it anyway, I dont think you will be able to hook it regardless of what you use for heads, so some top end may be what you are after. Another thing, I dont think you will be able to get 6500 RPM out of the 400 with the 195cc heads, not to say that the motor wouldent perform well with them, but if you are really after that RPM, I think the 210s are the way to go. If you went with the XR294HR (2800-6100 RPM, 242 248 @.050, .540 .562 lift) and mabye some 1.6 rockers, the 210cc heads, along with a 3000-3500 stall, I think that your truck would be a real screamer. No matter what you do, I would change the rear gears to at least 3.73's.

Adam
 

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killerformula said:
dunno if you need the 210cc's or that big of a cam.

284 roller comps
195 afrs
1 3/4 headers
10:1

500 horse at the crank with a 383.

K
has your motor been on a dyno, or just a guess?

firestone said:
If you want a little more torque, which you might with a heavier vehicle, the 195's may be the way to go. On the other hand, if this is going to have street tires on it anyway, I dont think you will be able to hook it regardless of what you use for heads, so some top end may be what you are after. Another thing, I dont think you will be able to get 6500 RPM out of the 400 with the 195cc heads, not to say that the motor wouldent perform well with them, but if you are really after that RPM, I think the 210s are the way to go. If you went with the XR294HR (2800-6100 RPM, 242 248 @.050, .540 .562 lift) and mabye some 1.6 rockers, the 210cc heads, along with a 3000-3500 stall, I think that your truck would be a real screamer.

Adam
udamnright, & with 3.73 gears, you'll love it

firestone said:
If you want a little more torque, which you might with a heavier vehicle, the 195's may be the way to go. On the other hand, if this is going to have street tires on it anyway, I dont think you will be able to hook it regardless of what you use for heads, so some top end may be what you are after. Another thing, I dont think you will be able to get 6500 RPM out of the 400 with the 195cc heads, not to say that the motor wouldent perform well with them, but if you are really after that RPM, I think the 210s are the way to go. If you went with the XR294HR (2800-6100 RPM, 242 248 @.050, .540 .562 lift) and mabye some 1.6 rockers, the 210cc heads, along with a 3000-3500 stall, I think that your truck would be a real screamer.

Adam
udamnright, & with 3.73 gears, you'll love it
 

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If your lookin for the extra MPG EFI would be the way to go. I still think you could obtain 7mpg carbed however EFI (Multiport) would give you a nice boost in gas mileage over that.

If your looking for more bottom end power (which would be nice in a heavier setup as you have) the smaller heads and cam would work better. Especially in conjunction with one of Chevies MPFI setups such as the TPI as they were designed for lower RPM torque.

If you want to build it midrange-high rpm then look at something like the Miniram setup (www.tpis.com) as its more a top end package.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i think i would go with the 210 cc and a nice stall and some better gears. But what about the combustion chamber size would 74cc be good with the stock pistons for what im looking for?
 

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59chevyapache said:
i think i would go with the 210 cc and a nice stall and some better gears. But what about the combustion chamber size would 74cc be good with the stock pistons for what im looking for?
no, you need a good set of forged pistons, or at least a set of "good"hypereutectic pistons, good rods, & a good crank. all the stock stuff would work, but your dependability wouldn't be there. 74cc chambers would be fine with a flat top, but if you use a dished piston, i would go with a 64cc.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
what all is required to run 5.7inch rods this is something i want to do so i mgiht as well do it when im upgrading everything? All thats needed is rods and pistons correct? or would a new crnak be needed too?
 

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your stock 400 crank will be fine as long as you don't plan to turn it 7 grand all the time. new rods & pistons are all you need for the 5.7" rods to work, but you might as well go with a 6" rods. it's not going to cost no more so why not. unless you just get a good deal on a set of 5.7" rods before you get the pistons. you can find pistons all over ebay for both 5.7" & 6" rods, some very good name brand pistons just used for a little while for half the cost.
 

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59chevyapache said:
i think i would go with the 210 cc and a nice stall and some better gears. But what about the combustion chamber size would 74cc be good with the stock pistons for what im looking for?

Yes with flattops(6cc valve reliefs) I'd go with the 74cc chambers. That'll give you approximately 9.75:1 compression. I'd consider decking the block to 0.010 - 0.015 and Fel-Pro 0.039 head gaskets to give you 0.049 - 0.054 quench, which these heads can take advantage of. May only give you 4-5 extra hp but will help with efficiency greatly. Will put you right under 10:1 compression as well. With EFI you could probably 89 octane on the street!

You can make +400hp very easy with AFR 195's, rpm air gap, headers, 9.5:1 compression and a +220* +0.480 hyd camshaft.

You can make +450 easy with AFR 195's, rpm air gap, headers, 9.5:1 compression and about the same sized hyd roller camshaft.

If I were you I'd go with the 195's instead of the 210's for several reasons.

#1 AFR doesn't call it a street head because it's not. You'll lose low end compared to the 195's and with a +3800lb truck you'll notice the lack of torque down low on the street I guarantee. More rear gear and a higher stall can fix this problem but then you're still losing fuel efficiency every time you leave a light and when cruising on the highway(you mentioned this concern).

#2 If you're not going to go with forged rods and spin 6500-7000 you're not going to get full use of the 210's. Getting full use of the 210's also means a larger cam, so again the fuel efficiency problem and emissions as well possibly(if yer truck has to do that).

#3 Take the cash you save buying the 195's over the 210's and put it towards a hydraulic roller setup. Depending on cam and compression you'll make anywhere from 450-500hp and 500lb-ft from as low as 2000rpm without a problem.

My '91 Camaro weighs 3100lbs dry and has the setup in the sig with a stock converter, 700R4 and a peg leg 2.73 rear. It's somewhat of a dog till 2000rpm and even then it doesn't even really pick up till 3500rpm IMHO. I'm running a stock crank and rods with Manley forged flattops and the only time I'll see 6000rpm is at the strip but I mostly run autox and some road racing. If you want to keep your truck a daily driver I'd highly recommend the 195's and a hyd roller setup. You'll get more power than you asked for in the first place(in the rpm range that's usuable 95% of the time) and if you think you'll want more later then go with all forged internals and put a 200hp shot of nitrous to it later on at the track. Does anyone really need more than 500hp on the street anyway?

It's easy to start getting excited about the bigger heads and bigger cams but if you want a daily driver remember to keep that in mind.

As for a converter and gears. I'd recommend 3.73's and at least a 2400rpm lockup converter. If you cruise the highway for any length of time I wouldn't go over 2600rpm but if things are close I'd go with something between 3000-3500rpm to get the most out of the motor. But then you'll still have to deal with traction :D I'm assuming you have the long truck trailing arms but that'll be the only thing on your side there.

Anyway, good luck with your buildup but remember the AFR heads make awesome power without needing much cam!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
i have leaf springs im not expecting traction at all. That was one of the reason i was kinda leaning towards top end power so i could hook on the street. I guess im just gonna get the 195s and im gonna have to take it easy on the street. Maybe the stock stall and some real sticky tires. What about the competition package? i know its a lot more but if it makes a considerable increase in power(20+hp) I would be willing to spend the money.
 

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I would recommend going with the Comp package heads if you have the money. You would be hard pressed to find another set of heads that are that size that flow that well for any price. I think you could expect 20 hp with the comp heads over the street heads as long as you use a cam with around .550-.600 lift (you could use 1.6 rockers to do this). This is because at low lift, the street heads and comp heads flow almost the same, but at higher lift(.400 and above) the comp package heads really start to shine over the street heads. I would recommend the XR288HR with a set of 1.6 rockers. this would put you at .550 intake lift and .570 exhaust lift.

Adam
 

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59chevyapache said:
i have leaf springs im not expecting traction at all. That was one of the reason i was kinda leaning towards top end power so i could hook on the street. I guess im just gonna get the 195s and im gonna have to take it easy on the street. Maybe the stock stall and some real sticky tires. What about the competition package? i know its a lot more but if it makes a considerable increase in power(20+hp) I would be willing to spend the money.
The right stall or the stall you go with will depend more on your cam choice than anything. A 2400rpm stall is actually quite conservative and you wont even notice the everyday driving difference of it over a stock stall until you're WOT. Your stock stall will probably cause the motor to stall out at idle in gear or be damn near close to it anyway if yer running more than 230* duration. Cam manufacturers have recommendations on stall and rear gearing with their cam listings. They are GOOD recommendations in most cases.
 
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