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Slow but willing learner
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Rip, you are basically doing what I did and it worked out well. After making the shell, I hung it on the hinges and layed the skin on it, tacked the assembly together and finish welded.

That was before I was on the forum and don't have a lot of pictures but this will give you an idea.



After I made the main panel, I made filler pieces between the skin and shell that overlapped. This allowed me to adjust the outer skin to the shell in order to keep it flush with the body.

In this picture you can see the step where the panels overlapped and allowed me to fine tune it.

John

 

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I will endevour to persevere
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Discussion Starter #82
John, I am so jealous of your metal working abilities! Every time I see your work I grow green with envy..

You make it look so easy. After screwing with the old shell and not getting it done like I wanted I figured this method worked best for my abilities. I am going slow this time and carefully fitting each piece to make sure it fits. I am also doing a reality check every time I tack weld or otherwise secure something. When I worked on the old shell my main problem was getting in too much of a hurry. This time Mellow me is in control!:cool:
 

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Slow but willing learner
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The mellow you will do just fine. Patience is the key but the challenge to succeed will get you there.

I have noticed you are ADDICTED!!! Forming sheet metal is a lot like the flue. It is highly contagious but after you catch it you feel so good when it is over.

Remember to make each piece it's own challenge and to have fun with it. If it ever quits being fun,the project will wither on the vine. With every piece your skill will improve and you will want to move on to the next piece. :thumbup:

John
 

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I will endevour to persevere
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Discussion Starter #84
The mellow you will do just fine. Patience is the key but the challenge to succeed will get you there.

I have noticed you are ADDICTED!!! Forming sheet metal is a lot like the flue. It is highly contagious but after you catch it you feel so good when it is over.

Remember to make each piece it's own challenge and to have fun with it. If it ever quits being fun,the project will wither on the vine. With every piece your skill will improve and you will want to move on to the next piece. :thumbup:

John
Thank you sir for your kind words and encouragement, Coming from you it means a lot. Thanks John...:cool:
 

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Rod...from a Chrysler?
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Wise words from John.

I've found it faster to make one slow panel than 3 fast ones. First two in the trash and the third one, not so nice looking because it was rushed trying to play catch up.
 

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I will endevour to persevere
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Discussion Starter #86
Well here it is springtime for some of us but still a deep freeze for others. I got out to the shop today with the expectations to start back on the T Coupe. I was actually successful and made more progress in a couple of hours than I have the last few months.

Before I get to the Coupe details I want to speak about certain people whom seem to be on a life mission to be more of an [email protected]@ than of any help to anyone. These people know who they are and unfortunately they are everywhere we go! I normally let these people blather on about how damn smart they are or totally ignore them. Well about a month or so I got so Pi$$ed off I logged out of this place and stayed completely away from this place a little over 2 weeks.

I was really bothered by the dimwit. Then like a light being switched on I realized I spend way too much time on this damn computer, and that I am taking this thing too damn seriously. I have been letting this thing waste to much of my little time I have left. When I finally turned this computer back on I had accomplished a lot in the down time. It did prove my point.
I went on a bit of attack on the shop. I had way to much crap in there that was just using space I can use for fabrication. 2 truckloads of crap later I can now move about the shop and get to all of my tools without having to run an obstacle course.

I had a dark area in my shop due to lack of light fixtures. I actually needed 4 more fixtures. In a stroke of luck the local big box store was having a clearance sale on 4 foot troffer lights for $15.99 each and they were 4 foot 4 bulb fixtures complete with bulb and connection whip. A smoking deal it was. I convinced my brother to come over and do an install on the fixtures and I now finally have the right amount of light.


So here today I decided to get back on the deck lid and get on with body fitting. I last stopped where I was going to have form the back top of the deck lid skin and it was going to be “Interesting” at the very least. I had measured and marked and measured some more and had the bend line laid out. I watched a ton of video on this weird curve.

So I rigged up a portable adjustable saw roller to rest the skin on while I was tipping the skin. I ran it through a couple of time and got a good bend started. I switch to hammer and dolly and worked the edge farther. Then I went over to the shrinker to relieve the stress. I did this over and over very slowly and the edge formed pretty darn good. I need to finish bending and shrinking it a bit more but ran out of time today. Tomorrow I hope to have the flange completely formed and the hinge reinforcement plates laid out and ready to fit. The last bit will be the inner shell which has already been laid out. I might actually finish this deck lid this year.
Just a few in progress pics.. and a little Garage Art.
 

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Slow but willing learner
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That looks like real progress to me Rip.

I had noticed you were not around as much lately. It is good to see you both back in the shop as well on the forum.

Most of the time I am really good at not letting myself get sucked into controversies on the forum but sometimes I fall short big time. My intentions are to never reply to someone who does not try to be supportive. If they receive no reaction to their posts they will eventually get bored and move on. As you know, I talk a good game but sometimes I don't contain myself like I should. Work in progress I guess.

Please keep the pictures coming. I know there more here interested in what you are accomplishing than just me.

John
 

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I will endevour to persevere
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Discussion Starter #89
Thank you very much John and IDJ, Pugsy, Brian and a whole host of the regulars.

I appreciate the support and knowledge I get from all you guys. Yep it is fun to be back building. I really don't know why that jerk got to me as I can pretty much stay calm and unfazed.

Well as I said the jerk did me a favor and got me rolling on a very necessary task to clear up the shop and use some time to study how I needed to do this.

When I finish this deck lid I am going to do another body placement on the frame and get body mounts made. Things should go pretty good from there..

Ok enough time wasting I gotta go bend some metal.
 

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Rip,
Good to see you back at it. Glad your doing better since the last time we talked. Your trunk lid is looking good.


I have not been really working on mine, until lately. I bought a '63 Ford 4000 diesel tractor. I had to pull the head to see how the insides were. Which of course means that I have to paint everything before I can reassemble it, which also means I had to take everything off it, and fix & paint it. You know the typical can of worms deal.


I have been working on my coupe also lately.


My 327 is back from being machined. I just have to pick up the new pistons for it, and reassemble it.


I'll be watching your progress as usual.


I need to pick up some extra lights also. I'm told it's a O.L.D. syndrome type thing. lol


Talk to you later,
Pat
 

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I will endevour to persevere
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Discussion Starter #91
Well I mark another milestone in the book today. I have finally finished the framework for the deck lid in the rear. I also bent and formed the top rear edge of the deck lid so it meets evenly with the inside of the body. So I took the original corner braces and use some 1/2 inch box tubing and a piece of 18 GA attached so the flange has something to attach to.

There is a curved piece of metal with weatherstrip attached to seal the area between the inner body and deck lid.

I am going to start the bending process on the rest of the inner shell. This one will be simple with no fancy stuff and will be easier to build from scratch. I have the steel cut and ready to shape so I may do that over the weekend.

At last some progress and soon I can get away from this nightmare....

Enjoy the pictures,:cool:
 

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Slow but willing learner
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Nightmare? ....What is that? an acronim for Nostalgic, intimidating, great, heavily, transformed, master, automotive, restoration, exercise.

Surely, you haven't quit enjoying this. You certainly will be proud of it when you are done. Keep up the good work Rip.

John
 

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I will endevour to persevere
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Discussion Starter #94
I like that John, I am adding that masterful word to the tool box...:cool:
 

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I will endevour to persevere
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Discussion Starter #95
Reality Check Time.
Now that I am on the road to recovery from that nasty crud going around it is back to work and see if I can make any progress.

Previously I finished the upper rear of the Deck lid and the inner structure I made for support and reinforcement. The next step was to build the new inner shell I designed. I had the steel measured rough cut and ready to start bending and forming.

Today I started with a reality check and that was a rough fitting of my parts together to make sure what I am doing works! I measured and everything was on the mark. I laid the parts together to ensure I wasn’t missing anything. It all looks like this is going to work.

I had to bend the flanges on each side of the piece as they are what the skin attaches to. This flat piece is not square as it is wider at the top than it is at the bottom so I had already trimmed up the piece. I had to make a 5/8” flange on each side.

As luck would have it I went to bend the flange with my HF 30” brake. It wasn’t happening! I can cut and bend smaller pieces on my machine but trying to bend a 90 of 18 ga 30” long just is not gonna happen unless you are a gorilla or have two weighty friends handy. The best I could do was about 20 to 30 degrees so it was a matter of hammer and dollying the flange the rest of the way to the 90 deg. It wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be I just went slow and steady and didn’t try to move to much at a time. It took me about an hour and a half but I am personally pleased how it turned out.
So now I will be on to the next part which is working with the shrinker to match the curve of the deck lid. And start the fitting in the rear of the shell. This is fun and addicting. Oh and once I get the shell to match the deck lid I will need to roll a couple of beads in it to. My god I might finish the deck lid by next December……

Oh one more thing, When I bead roll the shell I heard that to minimize distortion of the panel you can do a pre stretch with something like an E-wheel. I don’t have one but I was wondering if a person could do the same thing with a wide curved upper wheel in the top and wide flat wheel in the bottom of my bead roller? I have forward and reverse on the bead roller seems like it might work.. What ya all think? :cool:

So here are some pics for public consumption::thumbup:

1. just laying the panel on top.

2. just making sure the lines go where they should.

3. side view.

4. edge is formed.

5. both edges formed.

6. getting it straight.

7. It fits between the edges like it is supposed to.
 

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Slow but willing learner
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A couple of things Rip. First, I am not sure pre stretching the metal with your bead roller would be practical. I believe it might leave more marks and cause more problems than what the benefits were.

Secondly, when making a large panel like that, the center of the panel is not going to want to adapt the curve like the sides do wnen you Shrink/Stretch them. You may have to over do it until you get the curve you want in the middle and then "back up" the sides to get the overall shape right. That is one of the reasons I like to roll the curve into the sheet and then tip the flanges on my bead roller maintaining the shape with the shrinker stretcher jaws.

Thirdly, I frequently make the panel a couple of inches longer while shaping it. The Shrinker/Stretcher will not be as effective at the very end of the panel. Making the curved sides first, then trimming the ends will help that issue.

Please, don't think I am being critical. What you are accomplishing is fantastic. I am only offering a few thoughts that you will discover on your own as you advance your skills. Hopefully, our lessons learned can save you some effort in the future.

John
 

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I will endevour to persevere
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Discussion Starter #97
A couple of things Rip. First, I am not sure pre stretching the metal with your bead roller would be practical. I believe it might leave more marks and cause more problems than what the benefits were.

Secondly, when making a large panel like that, the center of the panel is not going to want to adapt the curve like the sides do wnen you Shrink/Stretch them. You may have to over do it until you get the curve you want in the middle and then "back up" the sides to get the overall shape right. That is one of the reasons I like to roll the curve into the sheet and then tip the flanges on my bead roller maintaining the shape with the shrinker stretcher jaws.

Thirdly, I frequently make the panel a couple of inches longer while shaping it. The Shrinker/Stretcher will not be as effective at the very end of the panel. Making the curved sides first, then trimming the ends will help that issue.

Please, don't think I am being critical. What you are accomplishing is fantastic. I am only offering a few thoughts that you will discover on your own as you advance your skills. Hopefully, our lessons learned can save you some effort in the future.

John
Hello John, I do not mind receiving comments both criticism and compliments as long as they are meant to be positive and help me improve. I do not know a heck of a lot about body and fender but I learn from these little exercises, by taking advantage of both positive and negative comments and to listening to people like you.

Using the bead roller was just a off the wall idea. I agree it would make more of a mess. I like bouncing these ideas and thoughts just to see what options are out there.

I initially wanted to roll the piece and then tip the edges with shrinking when necessary like you had suggested but I had a couple problems with that.
First problem is I have a panel that is 31 inches in width and the opening for my roller is only 30" max!

my other problem was tipping that panel and making it work was just a little out of my comfort zone with being able hold the panel and tip it with my limited mobility. Doing the rear of my deck lid edge just about exceeded my ability to hold guide and form.

I did make the part longer on both ends just in case.... I am going to proceed very slowly and hopefully the panel will cooperate with me. here goes a big learning curve.. actually I feel fairly confident if I just go a little at a time and pay attention to everything and the addition of a liberal application of friendly percussive maintenance, The task should be doable. If it fails I have another piece of 18 ready to try again till I get it.. I sure wish I had the learning curve I had back when I was but a young 17 year old.

John thank for the response you made. I appreciate tips,hints, and possible gotchas. I respect your work and abilities and willingness to step up and share what you have to anyone whom wants to listen.

Thanks again John, and BTW the questions will continue.:cool:
 

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Slow but willing learner
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Hello John, I do not mind receiving comments both criticism and compliments as long as they are meant to be positive and help me improve. I do not know a heck of a lot about body and fender but I learn from these little exercises, by taking advantage of both positive and negative comments and to listening to people like you.

Using the bead roller was just a off the wall idea. I agree it would make more of a mess. I like bouncing these ideas and thoughts just to see what options are out there.

I initially wanted to roll the piece and then tip the edges with shrinking when necessary like you had suggested but I had a couple problems with that.
First problem is I have a panel that is 31 inches in width and the opening for my roller is only 30" max!

my other problem was tipping that panel and making it work was just a little out of my comfort zone with being able hold the panel and tip it with my limited mobility. Doing the rear of my deck lid edge just about exceeded my ability to hold guide and form.

I did make the part longer on both ends just in case.... I am going to proceed very slowly and hopefully the panel will cooperate with me. here goes a big learning curve.. actually I feel fairly confident if I just go a little at a time and pay attention to everything and the addition of a liberal application of friendly percussive maintenance, The task should be doable. If it fails I have another piece of 18 ready to try again till I get it.. I sure wish I had the learning curve I had back when I was but a young 17 year old.

John thank for the response you made. I appreciate tips,hints, and possible gotchas. I respect your work and abilities and willingness to step up and share what you have to anyone whom wants to listen.

Thanks again John, and BTW the questions will continue.:cool:
Thanks Rip. I don't doubt at all you will get there. We all have to work with what we have. It sounds like your going about it the best way you can.

Best of luck.
John
 

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I will endevour to persevere
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Discussion Starter #99
Progress inch by inch!

I started the slow bend and scream on the inner panel today. I learned a bunch and found some interesting ways to keep the center of the panel from distorting the curve.

As predicted by John I saw evidence of distortion in the curve. I was working a tiny bit at a time. I finally saw a way to help the bend to form evenly. I sound a 1X4 and a hunk of 3 in" round pipe. I laid the pipe cross way left and right across that big hunk of panel. The 1X4 was put on the other side of the panel and secured both pieces with a c clamp. The pipe helped with the curve forming as I could move it back and forward to support the curve. moving slowly and carefully I have the rear lower portion curved everywhere it should be, and so far no gotme's!!

There is the opposite end still to be messed with and I haven't decided how to finish it up yet. I have some ideas but nothing is cast. Next part will be making the rear look petty and then to make the rear final fits. Then I can decide the last fitment before it gets bead rolled.

So a couple of pictures are in order and they pretty well explain themselves. Still a ways to go but getting there..

BTW: A question for my online advisers? How should I go about folding the flange over in the rear when I go to finally put it all together? Is it just standard sneak up on it with a hammer and dolly, Or maybe a long dolly on the skin side anyway thanks. :cool:
 

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deck lid skin .

When I did the deck lid on the 31 nash roadster, I scribed it from inside then took the panel to the brake and made a very slight bend in the location to allow a gap to the sides of the lid.It was a single curve not like your 27 double curve, I bent the top and bottom to 90* in the brake then hammered them over the flange on my inner structure . On the sides the slight brake line gave me a line to work to, forming with a hammer and dolly along a little bit at a time back and forth. all my pict are on another computer
 
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