Hot Rod Forum banner

101 - 120 of 326 Posts

·
Grand Prix user
Joined
·
5,416 Posts
question for my online advisers? How should I go about folding the flange over in the rear when I go to finally put it all together? Is it just standard sneak up on it with a hammer and dolly, Or maybe a long dolly on the skin side anyway thanks. :cool:
When I fold an edge, if it is straight I like 2x4" wood. If it is curved, I like whichever DuraBlock is my least favorite, or I have a rubber 9" wet sanding block. I only use a metal dolly for the final pass. None of the above should touch the panel face, stay on the radius and watch how hard you hit it. Don't want to stretch that skin edge or bump it out.

I think if I were you and I had stepping dies for the bead roller, I might scribe it like timo then then very lightly roll a step. As a start, since its curved. My question is did the original rumble lids have the same radius on the bottom gap as the rest of the lid? I skinned a 31 Model A rumble lid and man it gets tight down there when opening.
 

·
I will endevour to persevere
Joined
·
1,048 Posts
Discussion Starter #102
Good ideas on the edge.. This being a coupe the top as I call it I believe to be a sharper bend. When I get to that radius I think I will just work the inner to lay across the braces in the top. Tack it to the braces and trim the corners some to allow air to circulate .

That reminds me, I am wondering about some spacing material to use in the 3/8 gap between the inner and out skin. I initially was going to use strips of 18 ga tacked to the inside of the inner shell these things were going to be hat shaped and spot welded to one panel only. I don't like that the metal strips would rub against the skin when vibrated. I also thought about some closed cell foam laid out before I put the 2 pieces together. Any idears?:pain:
 

·
Grand Prix user
Joined
·
5,416 Posts
Oh, heck I'd say treat it like a door or hood skin... I believe most folks would use seam sealer, in the way that windshield urethane is used. As a "bed". In a bead, around tight spots. Or tall dots here and there. Applied just before final install of skin (do not lay lid on face while sealer cures, set it on a side) Maybe you could use butyl rubber instead but that migrates. Whatever you do, avoid materials that harden. Popular urethane seam sealers should do. If its hard and sticks you might catch a dent from that. Foam might squeak and or not last. You can stick layered sound deadening in there too. One layer would actually probably prevent problems by itself, with sealer dots. Thats my official late night stab at your Q anyhow. I better quit. Catch you on the flipside.:)
 

·
Slow but willing learner
Joined
·
5,156 Posts
Progress inch by inch!

I started the slow bend and scream on the inner panel today. I learned a bunch and found some interesting ways to keep the center of the panel from distorting the curve.
......
........
.......
...........
............


BTW: A question for my online advisers? How should I go about folding the flange over in the rear when I go to finally put it all together? Is it just standard sneak up on it with a hammer and dolly, Or maybe a long dolly on the skin side anyway thanks. :cool:
I hope I understand the question.

If you are referring to the bottom flange running accross the panel, maybe you could cut a heavy piece of angle iron that would just fit between the side flanges and sandwich the panel between another piece of angle or square tubing or even hard wood.. Then you could break the flange with a slapper.

Good ideas on the edge.. This being a coupe the top as I call it I believe to be a sharper bend. When I get to that radius I think I will just work the inner to lay across the braces in the top. Tack it to the braces and trim the corners some to allow air to circulate .

That reminds me, I am wondering about some spacing material to use in the 3/8 gap between the inner and out skin. I initially was going to use strips of 18 ga tacked to the inside of the inner shell these things were going to be hat shaped and spot welded to one panel only. I don't like that the metal strips would rub against the skin when vibrated. I also thought about some closed cell foam laid out before I put the 2 pieces together. Any idears?:pain:
I am not sure myself, you need any spacing material. No bigger than a model T is, I suspect when assembled and welded it is going to be pretty strong. Did you not make it out of 18 gauge?

John
 

·
I will endevour to persevere
Joined
·
1,048 Posts
Discussion Starter #105
John,

Yup I am using 18 ga. Sometimes it feels like working 3/16 steel. You are right It will probably be stiff enough that any flexing etc will be absolutely minimal.
IDJ, Good idea about mat and dots. It would be a perfect time to add FatMat or a reasonable facsimile and have it insulated to boot. The dots are a good idea..

I love coming here and tossing ideas around. There is a wealth of information to tap..

Thanks guys, Now back to work or "No Soup For Me" :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
424 Posts
Hi Rip VW, I am into late T model stuff and was pleased to find your project thread.
You are doing a grand job of it.
I'm assuming it a 1926 going by the door hinges? I'm building a 1926 T 5 window pickup which is a body remodelled from a coupe that was in pretty bad shape.

Attached is a link to my chassis so far.

https://youtu.be/5GQ8Ujaq7MY
 

·
I will endevour to persevere
Joined
·
1,048 Posts
Discussion Starter #107
Hello fifty V8,

Thank you for reading my thread. The Body is actually a real 1927 body. It has no wood around the windows etc like 26 and earlier. As for the door hinges your guess is as good as mine.

I looked at your utube videos and your chassis and motor are beautiful works of art. There is a lot of beauty in the combo. You do excellent work.

My T has been a heck of a learning experience and an awesome way to de- stress from life in general. Plus the shop is a great place to hide from the "Honey do's"...

I am finally seeing some light at the end of this deck lid deal. This has been the most challenging part of the build and the longest part.

The funnest part of the project has been learning how to do some of this metal work and the freedom of creativity I have..

Thank you again for the good comments and I invite you to follow along as I learn and complete..:cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
424 Posts
Thankyou also for the kind words and keep up the good work.
I have a 26 coupe body all done with full a steel roof fitted and hope for it to be my next project.
I've acquired an E type Jaguar IRS set up which I hope to use.
I'm still toying with the idea of running it full fendered since I have them.
Good decklids are hard to find and can be expensive to acquire even if found, so reconstructing yours is well worth the effort.
 

·
I will endevour to persevere
Joined
·
1,048 Posts
Discussion Starter #109
I’m getting closer

Well I am getting close now. I think 1 or 2 more sessions and the inner panel will be eighty percent complete. I will just need to do a bead or two for strength. The best step after that is to give all the internal parts a good covering of SPI Epoxy. Then final assembly and I will be done with this seemingly lifetime project Deck Lid.

Ok I need to mention John Longs warning about rolling first then tipping the edges! He was absolutely correct!!! Unfortunately, I did not have access to a slip roll wide enough to do that. I guess I could have split the piece down the middle, rolled each side then welded it back together. That was not a way I wanted to do, so I had to do what I could with what I had and make it work. I stretched the flange to start the curve and noticed within a few stretches that what John had predicted was coming true. The center was not going to play well with the rest. I tried my steel pipe method to slowly work the curve but it was so slow progress wise making the curve in the center and it wasn’t consistent. What I needed was a buck or something with the correct radius.

(Enter Idea 1)

I was out in the storage shed when my gaze shifted to two hunks of 6 inch PVC sewer pipe lying on the shelf. I pulled them off and got an idea for a radius to use to form the deck shell curve. I also spied a hunk of closed cell dense foam that could go inside the sewer pipe. ( actually the stuff was left over from a previous project) I used the round foam to connect the two pieces end to end and it is almost wide to span the entire panel.

(Closer)

Basically I place the tube in the radius and block the other end of the shell across the back so the shell won’t move. I then block a 2X4 to the bench and add pressure to the center area right over the pipe radius. It actually works as there is enough give in the tube that the steel follows the radius and I can slightly over bend on each pass and it springs right where I want it. It is like a poor man’s Frugal Man’s slip roll. Progress is slow but I am not hurrying on any of it as that is when things come un glued for me. I can see a screw up in the bend and recover easier because I am really trying to not blindly leap ahead like I have been known to do!

(Closer Yet) and (Closest Yet)

One last note, I have figured out how the end will work and it is I think a great idea. More on that idea next post. I will not be getting much done on it for the next week. Have run into a couple of issues I need to address. Onward to tomorrow..
 

Attachments

·
I will endevour to persevere
Joined
·
1,048 Posts
Discussion Starter #110
Ah one more thing this morning,

The Idea on finishing the back of the shell with a 45 cut in the inner shell looks like a go. If I try and go all the way to the corner of the deck lid skin it causes an access problem for the deck lid hinge. I dug the old shell out and looked and it was done basically the same but not as big of a cut.

The corner braces are actually taller then the depth of the deck and the original shell raised up over them. As I am making the inner shell flatter it looks like a good idea to end the shell about a 1/2 inch long on the 45 and make a 90 deg flange that will meet the 45 section of the corner braces. I can then rivet the flange to the corner brace. the the rear of the inner shell will rivet that part to the rear cross base. :thumbup::cool:

Here is a photo illustrating how this will work I hope.
 

Attachments

·
I will endevour to persevere
Joined
·
1,048 Posts
Discussion Starter #111
Time for a update!

Well after surviving another round of that crap going round and getting some progress on the now infamous deck lid shell. But just as I started making progress I had to visit a sick friend and house sit for him while he got out of the hospital. We got chore services set up and him settled but it was hard going over a week from home with no toys to play with.

So upon return I went to work on the deck lid shell. I slowly worked to make that curve by hand and after beating the crap out of things I am almost at the final dimensions to fit so I am feeling better. I still need to trim the rear about a inch and a half.

during the forming I found I had made a mistake on how much clearance I had in the rear corner brace assembly. I also forgot they needed to be open and accessible to install the mount blocks for the hing pins. So a trim here and a bump here and a trim of the forward corner brace flange and I think I am ready to trim the steel and screw it together for fit. I do want to roll a bead or two down the center to stiffen it but after that it is break it down clean sand and shoot a coat of SPI Epoxy all on the inside before assembly. Man I can almost taste the end of this lid!!!!

During my stay out of town I did some planing and such getting ready to build a harness for the engine interface like sensors and such. I have been thinking out of this box again and decided to use a secret stash of parts and decided to make the engine electronically controlled! I am using a 92 Bronco 351W truck intake an injectors. I am using a Mega squirt N Spark. for fuel and ignition. No distributor as I will be firing the engine with a Ford Edis 8 ignition and 2 coils.

I built the megasquirt a few years ago but the project it was destined for never materialized! I have been building some spark and basic fuel tables based on final engine configuration. My eye is on a better system after the rig is done but what the heck..

So some pictures for your tired eyes..

progress1 it's getting close to fitting.

progress1.5 here is some clearance problems, need to cut this brace so it's height above the panel is 5/8 ths of a inch max.

progress 2 Need to fit to shell again to get the right measurements and cut the end

progress 3 Nice Fit on the left just needs trimmed

progress 4 Ready for the The Trim fitting

Prog Detail 1 The New induction system for the T

Prog Detail 2 nice Area back here to put the coils into

Prog Detail 3 just a general view

I am Endevouring to Persevere! :cool:
 

Attachments

·
I will endevour to persevere
Joined
·
1,048 Posts
Discussion Starter #112 (Edited)
I have been working on and off on getting the inner deck lid panel formed and getting it ready to lay a good several coats of Barry's best SPI Epoxy Primer.

I have the panel formed and fit, however I still should roll a couple of beads in it and this is where I call on my technical advisers!! John,Pugs, anyone.

I am concerned about distortion in my panel when 3 beads are rolled lengthwise into it. If you look close at the panel photos you can see my crude marks on the panel representing 3 beads. I did that to help visualize where they will go. I put the marks too high on the panel and they should start about 4 inches from the lower end of the panel and bring the bead up to the area where the curve get sharp. What should I expect in the way of distortion? any tips before I throw it in to the roller?

Well back to the honeydew list for a couple a days. I am slowly closing in on the deck lid rebuild and maybe get this build back on track. :cool::cool:

Interesting how the lighting makes the panel look black in areas. Oh well just a cheap I phone camera
 

Attachments

·
Rod...from a Chrysler?
Joined
·
4,922 Posts
The beads may make the panel "flim flam" back and forth from corner to corner. However, if it will be joined to the perimeter of the shell, this will stop it from being wonky.
At the ends of the beads may be a slight wave.

Try a piece of scrap with a fold on each end. Run a bead between the folds stopping a few inches away and see what happens.
 

·
Grand Prix user
Joined
·
5,416 Posts
Rip, my novice attempts indicate that the right amount of pre stretch is significant, and that so far I haven't been sufficiently aggressive or accurate. Try Pugsy's suggested exercise to get a feel for it definitely.
 

·
I will endevour to persevere
Joined
·
1,048 Posts
Discussion Starter #116
Excellent ideas guys. I hope to sneak out to the shop tomorrow for an hour or so and I am going to try some practice runs on some practice scrap. I should have enough throat on the roller when I do it for real.

I see a possible problem on the horizon with clearance between the outer skin and inner. I designed the fit to give me 3/8's of an inch or clearance between the two. near each end the clearance goes to zero. I need to confirm the amount of clearance so I don't get the bead contacting the the outer skin. I am headed to the store tomorrow and get me a can or two of kids play Doh. I will place some between the inner and outer skin and clamp them together. Then I will pull the inner shell off and measure the depth of the clay. Then make sure my bead does not actually touch the outer skin.

Gosh I haven't played with Play Doh in years. Maybe I better pick up 4 cans just in case I run out you know...

Tomorrow I can get back to maybe a normal schedule again. All this internal hardware I have has been giving me fits for a while and I been seeing doctors and getting all kinds of scans and they still can't find the problem.

I tell ya it's just like an annoying oil leak that seems to be coming from every where. Why I have been Infected,Injected,Inspected,and selected! I have been Scanned Left,Right,Top to bottom and sideways. then they stand there and nod their heads a lot at a screen. Meanwhile they have you lying on your back on top of a single rail road rail for hours.. Oh I finished a full day of the above today and I can attest it's not my idea of fun. Oh It makes me grumpy..

I thought this hardware thing was a done deal a couple of months ago but no I have health insurance so they are going to spend me into a test tube.. I am rambling so off to the land of sleep. Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
Oh did I say I love doctors????? Not!
:cool: :rolleyes:
 

·
I will endevour to persevere
Joined
·
1,048 Posts
Discussion Starter #117
Hey Mr fiftyv8,

I was just looking at your video again and I finally woke up enough to notice the drivey stuff is on the right side... Is the video flipped or is that a real RHD? btw where are you located? :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
424 Posts
Hi Rip VW, I am from Down Under on the west coast. :welcome:

Don't forget to hit the like button for my videos.
I don't get that many hits or likes, but then again that was not my intention for making it. It all helps keep me motivated, as I do plan to add at least 1 or 2 more videos in the future, so stay tuned.

Cadillac flathead powered hot rods just needed a boost in recognition and since I had a bit of knowledge I thought it needed to be put out there for others to see and enjoy.

I did at one time make the modified cast aluminium timing covers and valley plates which are feature in my first video which were also mounted on the red Bonneville 38 Chev coupe in my video which took the speed record for these engines at around 190mph.

Buddy the owner of that car who is from Colorado and his crew did a magnificent job of building the car and engine and in my view created history.

I've lost track of Buddy in recent times and don't know whether he ever did achieved the 200mph target???

It is my personal view that Cadillac engines of the era were the first crate engines as we know them today as they supported the WWII war effort.

Knowing what I have just told you, looking at my video again will have more meaning.

Thanks for viewing, Russ.

https://youtu.be/uYIUzCopjpA

https://youtu.be/I_xHhAdMgGw

https://youtu.be/5GQ8Ujaq7MY
 

·
I will endevour to persevere
Joined
·
1,048 Posts
Discussion Starter #119
Well it's a done deal! I rolled a couple a beads in the shell today. I did encounter a couple of problems in the process.

First problem was throat depth of my bead roller. I wanted to put 3 vertical beads in the panel but I was about 1 1/2" short of reaching the center. I had to regroup and remeasure for only 2 beads. I had some minor clearance issues because of the side but I was able to work through and successfully put 2 beads down the the panel.

Pugs you were right it flimmed a bit on the first bead at about 1/2 way. It caught me by surprise. but once I re supported it and finished the bead and it straightened right out. I could tell a big improvement in the strength when I finished both beads.

I made note to myself to put some kind of fence on my bead roller as it is a big pain to only have a line to follow. Another item I noted was the position of the forward reverse switch. It needs to be accessible to both sides.

This is by far a long way from show car look but at lease it is solid new and it fits..

One of the things I needed to know before I rolled this was just how much clearance was between the skin and shell. I took a couple of plastic garbage bags and laid one out on the inside of the skin. I then took a bunch of play doh and rolled them roughly into about 1/2" ropes and laid them on the trash bag on the skin. I laid another trash bag over them then assembled the two pieces. of deck lid together. I then pushed some and wiggled the panel just to simulate usage. I pulled the two pieces apart and looked and the clay ropes. I had calculated to have 3/8" of space and the clay showed I had anywhere from 3/8" to 1/2" right where it is needed.

The next step will be to get a good covering of SPI epoxy over both or the pieces and when dry I will put the shell in place and set the rivets and close up the lower edge. Oh I will also add a 3 x 3 square of fat mat to insulate and quiet things inside.

I am hoping for cooperative weather next week so I can get these pieces primed and out of the way. I think both doors are next. I am hoping for an easier time as I have all the parts that were damaged in new steel and I don't anticipate any trouble. I need to get the doors done before I set it on the chassis and mock up the body mounts and other items I haven't realized yet will need to be done then.

Still lots to do but I think I can do it. :cool::cool:
 

Attachments

·
Slow but willing learner
Joined
·
5,156 Posts
I just got back in town RIP and have been catching up on your thread. Congratulations on your success. I am truly impressed.

John
 
101 - 120 of 326 Posts
Top