RUST..What are the acceptable permanent ways to get rid of it?
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Controlling Rust
Look at www.eastwood.com they have a great selection in products for controlling rust since they are in the restoration field. I've not had any problems with their products. I've used their rust encapsulator on several different metals after sandblasting and I have not seen any lifting or cracking of them after being painted in years. --------Keith:thumbup:
Look at www.eastwood.com they have a great selection in products for controlling rust since they are in the restoration field. I've not had any problems with their products. I've used their rust encapsulator on several different metals after sandblasting and I have not seen any lifting or cracking of them after being painted in years. --------Keith:thumbup:
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388 Posts
OH,Cut it out!!!!!
Randy
Randy
Sounds good, another thing I will definately try. But allow me to purpose this scenario.
I do not have ready access to a sandblaster. I can however, get all the rust treatment chemicals I want (of course). I have some areas in the body that have little pits in it (the kind that are impossible to get to except with either 1. chemicals or 2. sandblasting. he last thing I want to see is a few years later the paint lifting off the body because of rust appearing underneith. Will chemical treatment suffice, or should it be blasted?
I do not have ready access to a sandblaster. I can however, get all the rust treatment chemicals I want (of course). I have some areas in the body that have little pits in it (the kind that are impossible to get to except with either 1. chemicals or 2. sandblasting. he last thing I want to see is a few years later the paint lifting off the body because of rust appearing underneith. Will chemical treatment suffice, or should it be blasted?
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[ he last thing I want to see is a few years later the paint lifting off the body because of rust appearing underneith. Will chemical treatment suffice, or should it be blasted? [/B][/QUOTE]
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If thats what your worried about I would reread Randy's statement.
Or don't listen but do yourself a favor, go to the phone book and call any 10 body shops and see if any of them use the stuff talked about. You will not find one, why would that be?
It is miracle stuff!
A further note there is a lot of experience on this board and people like Randy writes something like he did its to help you not to be a smart A**.(he was probably laughing so hard he could not finish what he wanted to say)
Most of us know all about stuff like that and so do body shop owners who must stand behind their work.
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If thats what your worried about I would reread Randy's statement.
Or don't listen but do yourself a favor, go to the phone book and call any 10 body shops and see if any of them use the stuff talked about. You will not find one, why would that be?
It is miracle stuff!
A further note there is a lot of experience on this board and people like Randy writes something like he did its to help you not to be a smart A**.(he was probably laughing so hard he could not finish what he wanted to say)
Most of us know all about stuff like that and so do body shop owners who must stand behind their work.
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388 Posts
Barry,
You hit the nail on the head! I was trying to bring across a little fact based humor. Apparently some people didn't get it!
The only way to solve the rust problem is to get rid of it. Sandblasting won't do it! It will take care of what you see, but it will not eliminate the problem. In fact, it just may accelerate it.
Using chemicals won't do it, either. In fact, The chemical would probably accelerate the problem as well, as any chemical left behind would cause more trouble than you care to imagine.
The only true way to solve the problem is cut away the bad material and replace it with new. Minor surface rust can be treated and the fix will last several years, but I'm not certain of how bad your problem is, so I'm assuming the worst. I am picturing deep rust pits that are through or very close to it. If you only have minor surface rust, then that's a different story. It can be treated.
Randy Ferguson
Metalshaping & Kustom Paint
www.metalmeet.com
You hit the nail on the head! I was trying to bring across a little fact based humor. Apparently some people didn't get it!
The only way to solve the rust problem is to get rid of it. Sandblasting won't do it! It will take care of what you see, but it will not eliminate the problem. In fact, it just may accelerate it.
Using chemicals won't do it, either. In fact, The chemical would probably accelerate the problem as well, as any chemical left behind would cause more trouble than you care to imagine.
The only true way to solve the problem is cut away the bad material and replace it with new. Minor surface rust can be treated and the fix will last several years, but I'm not certain of how bad your problem is, so I'm assuming the worst. I am picturing deep rust pits that are through or very close to it. If you only have minor surface rust, then that's a different story. It can be treated.
Randy Ferguson
Metalshaping & Kustom Paint
www.metalmeet.com
Oh well damnit.
No, it is not nearly that bad, just minor pitting and surface rust. There are some areas on my car that are rotted through but those are being completely cut out and new metal being welded in. Surface rust (paint chips, etc) I DA'ed off thoroughly. Biggest problem I have is the lovely G-body roof seam (the one that looks like hell straight from factory), and it had the vinyl top (which went straight to the devilstrip the day i bought the car) so it didn't help.
No, it is not nearly that bad, just minor pitting and surface rust. There are some areas on my car that are rotted through but those are being completely cut out and new metal being welded in. Surface rust (paint chips, etc) I DA'ed off thoroughly. Biggest problem I have is the lovely G-body roof seam (the one that looks like hell straight from factory), and it had the vinyl top (which went straight to the devilstrip the day i bought the car) so it didn't help.
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OK, In that case, get yourself some naval jelly and 000 steel wool and have at it. Work in small areas, not larger than 1 foot square,
Apply the naval jelly with the steel wool and rub it in good, allow it to set for a couple minuts, but don't let it dry. After a couple minutes have passed, rub it again with the steel wool. You should see the metal getting brighter and the rust will begin to come loose and naval jelly will turn rust colored from the particles of rust. repeat this process a couple times and clean the area thoroghly with paper towels and hot soapy water. Make sure to dry the area immediately. The metal should look nice and brite when your finished. You can sand the metal with 80-180 grit before applying the epoxy primer.
Randy Ferguson
Apply the naval jelly with the steel wool and rub it in good, allow it to set for a couple minuts, but don't let it dry. After a couple minutes have passed, rub it again with the steel wool. You should see the metal getting brighter and the rust will begin to come loose and naval jelly will turn rust colored from the particles of rust. repeat this process a couple times and clean the area thoroghly with paper towels and hot soapy water. Make sure to dry the area immediately. The metal should look nice and brite when your finished. You can sand the metal with 80-180 grit before applying the epoxy primer.
Randy Ferguson
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NO! It's not caused by the heat. It's caused by the high pressure, stretching the metal. It's like taking a tiny hammer to the metal, hitting it thousands of times per minute in a concentrated area. A good operator will know how to keep from doing this, but they are few and far between.
Randy Ferguson
Metalshaping & Kustom Paint
www.metalmeet.com
Randy Ferguson
Metalshaping & Kustom Paint
www.metalmeet.com
If you were to look between the internal and external panels of the body shell on my 49 old Chevy Fleetline, you would notice that there is surface rust on those sections. Is there anything I can or should do about these areas. I am thinking of leaving them since the car has lasted 55 years so far, and it will be garaged most of the time. Since she has made it this long, I do however feel obligated to give her the longest life I can. Any thoughts or experiences on this subject? I was also wondering what they do about this area on some of the show cars I see. I have seen more customized Cadillacs and so on of this type of vintage in in recent years. How do they handle surface rust in those body cavities?
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Ron, you are one of the first guys I have seen on this or any other forum with the common sense God gave you. 
That surface rust on the inside is likely not going to hurt a darn thing in the future.
MOST all cars from prior to total dipping and "E" coat techologies being what they are today, were simply sprayed by men with guns. They didn't get into every nook and crannie and they didn't get up under the insides of quarters and things like that. They didn't get up under the roof skin very well if at all and left bare metal all over the place.
This bare metal is a lot of times gets a little surface rust on it, and isn't going to go nuts. It hasn't in the last forty to sixty years and it isn't going to in the next forty to sixty years.
Unless you plan on letting the inside of your car get wet all the time, it will stay just as it is (or near to it) for ever.
I read all the time about guys applying "POR" on every square inch of all that minor rust, it is just a waste of time and money.
In the lower sections like inside quarters, sure it is a good idea, THAT is a place where it could get moisture that will sit a while and do some damage. But up on the sides of the roof posts and the like, it isn't going to get wet and say wet.
It is a judgment call on where to protect and where not to, I agree. But to think every speck of the minor surface rust is a death sentence is way over blown.
:welcome:
That surface rust on the inside is likely not going to hurt a darn thing in the future.MOST all cars from prior to total dipping and "E" coat techologies being what they are today, were simply sprayed by men with guns. They didn't get into every nook and crannie and they didn't get up under the insides of quarters and things like that. They didn't get up under the roof skin very well if at all and left bare metal all over the place.
This bare metal is a lot of times gets a little surface rust on it, and isn't going to go nuts. It hasn't in the last forty to sixty years and it isn't going to in the next forty to sixty years.
Unless you plan on letting the inside of your car get wet all the time, it will stay just as it is (or near to it) for ever.
I read all the time about guys applying "POR" on every square inch of all that minor rust, it is just a waste of time and money.
In the lower sections like inside quarters, sure it is a good idea, THAT is a place where it could get moisture that will sit a while and do some damage. But up on the sides of the roof posts and the like, it isn't going to get wet and say wet.
It is a judgment call on where to protect and where not to, I agree. But to think every speck of the minor surface rust is a death sentence is way over blown.
:welcome:
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Well Guys,
I guess since the rest of us don't have any common sense, we just as well abandon ship, huh!!
later
Randy Ferguson
I guess since the rest of us don't have any common sense, we just as well abandon ship, huh!!
later
Randy Ferguson
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16,459 Posts
Randy, come on now, I hope you are kidding. Ron and I are not even talking about the subject of this thread. We are talking about the minor surface rust that is there, but not seen and is on just about every car.
I hope you didn't take it in someway as a barb at what you have said here.
I was going to comment on at as well.
"You hit the nail on the head! I was trying to bring across a little fact based humor. Apparently some people didn't get it!
The only way to solve the rust problem is to get rid of it. Sandblasting won't do it! It will take care of what you see, but it will not eliminate the problem. In fact, it just may accelerate it.
Using chemicals won't do it, either. In fact, The chemical would probably accelerate the problem as well, as any chemical left behind would cause more trouble than you care to imagine.
The only true way to solve the problem is cut away the bad material and replace it with new. Minor surface rust can be treated and the fix will last several years, but I'm not certain of how bad your problem is, so I'm assuming the worst. I am picturing deep rust pits that are through or very close to it. If you only have minor surface rust, then that's a different story. It can be treated"
That was right on the money Randy.
Ron and I are not even talking about the subject of this thread. We are talking about the minor surface rust that is there, but not seen and is on just about every car. I hope you didn't take it in someway as a barb at what you have said here.
I was going to comment on at as well.
"You hit the nail on the head! I was trying to bring across a little fact based humor. Apparently some people didn't get it!
The only way to solve the rust problem is to get rid of it. Sandblasting won't do it! It will take care of what you see, but it will not eliminate the problem. In fact, it just may accelerate it.
Using chemicals won't do it, either. In fact, The chemical would probably accelerate the problem as well, as any chemical left behind would cause more trouble than you care to imagine.
The only true way to solve the problem is cut away the bad material and replace it with new. Minor surface rust can be treated and the fix will last several years, but I'm not certain of how bad your problem is, so I'm assuming the worst. I am picturing deep rust pits that are through or very close to it. If you only have minor surface rust, then that's a different story. It can be treated"
That was right on the money Randy.
This maybe an interesting experience for people who are comtemplating sandblasting. I had some small pieces such as hood latch, hinges etc. They had some rust on them in very specific areas. I thought what the hey, Iam going to be sealing them with epoxy primer in a week or so, so I took them to work where we have what they call a wheelabrator. It is a mechanical type of sandblaster and you can do a load of parts such as radiator frames in about 3-4 minutes. Easy, no real work involved. They came out beautiful. I put them in a box and took them home where they have sat in the garage for about 2 weeks. Guess what, they started to rust, quite heavily I might add in the exact same spots, but remained clean where there was no rust. I do not mean sort of close, I mean exact locations. It dawned on me that when metal has rusted for a period of time, it actually slows down the corrosion process to some extent. I am no expert, but I think I just gave the corrosion process some food when I blasted to clean metal again!
One question for the corrosion experts out there. If it takes iron, water and oxygen to corrode metal, why does it not stop when you take one of the components away. I have read on this board that sealing rust does not work. Is the problem that you are not able to eliminate one of the elements by coating? Just curious about that problem.
One question for the corrosion experts out there. If it takes iron, water and oxygen to corrode metal, why does it not stop when you take one of the components away. I have read on this board that sealing rust does not work. Is the problem that you are not able to eliminate one of the elements by coating? Just curious about that problem.
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Rust
Was just reading the "rust" posts and it crossed my mind that I've got rust on the inside of my hood where the chrome was removed and really need to do something about it. It then occured to me that I've got a friend that has a neglected and left out in the weather for several years '50 Mercury and I should go over there and see where it's rusted through and then check mine in those areas.
One reason I haven't done anything to the rust on mine is that there are so many different products and approaches and opinions that it's mind boggling and the manufacturers can make any claim they want and there's no recourse other than skepticism, OR, reading a site like this one where the contrubiters have no reason to lie about a product they have used.
I have some POR 15 in the garage that I bought for the aforementione rust but I'm not sure now that I want to use it after seeing some of these previous posts.
Anyway, I guess the thing to do is read the different opinions expressed on this site and draw my own conclusions.
Charlie Smith
Was just reading the "rust" posts and it crossed my mind that I've got rust on the inside of my hood where the chrome was removed and really need to do something about it. It then occured to me that I've got a friend that has a neglected and left out in the weather for several years '50 Mercury and I should go over there and see where it's rusted through and then check mine in those areas.
One reason I haven't done anything to the rust on mine is that there are so many different products and approaches and opinions that it's mind boggling and the manufacturers can make any claim they want and there's no recourse other than skepticism, OR, reading a site like this one where the contrubiters have no reason to lie about a product they have used.
I have some POR 15 in the garage that I bought for the aforementione rust but I'm not sure now that I want to use it after seeing some of these previous posts.
Anyway, I guess the thing to do is read the different opinions expressed on this site and draw my own conclusions.
Charlie Smith
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3,591 Posts
What a subject!
Reading your post if you were 20 years old, I would not respond.
These companies have created a market going after the do it yourself hobbyist and how are you to know better?
Your not in contact with Dupont, PPG or BASF factory reps.
You don't attend their training classes.
The worst thing here is anything negative said about one of these products is going to be attacked by people that have used it a couple of times and must justify. What are the chances of failure if you use a product once or twice.
Don't listen to us, call or visit some good bodyshops around you
and ask them if they use products like this.
If its so great, they are using it.
If you find one shop out of a 100 that has ever used it you would be lucky.
Why? Unless they are a used car special shop that does not need to back their work there is no way they can use this stuff.
The redo's would put them out of business.
Reading your post if you were 20 years old, I would not respond.
These companies have created a market going after the do it yourself hobbyist and how are you to know better?
Your not in contact with Dupont, PPG or BASF factory reps.
You don't attend their training classes.
The worst thing here is anything negative said about one of these products is going to be attacked by people that have used it a couple of times and must justify. What are the chances of failure if you use a product once or twice.
Don't listen to us, call or visit some good bodyshops around you
and ask them if they use products like this.
If its so great, they are using it.
If you find one shop out of a 100 that has ever used it you would be lucky.
Why? Unless they are a used car special shop that does not need to back their work there is no way they can use this stuff.
The redo's would put them out of business.
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388 Posts
AMEN!! Barry.
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16,459 Posts
I can't believe the attacks I have received after knocking POR or other "magic potions". ain:
The pattern I see is similar to the pattern I saw when I was working at a parts counter.
The pros, the people who make a living doing this stuff would NEVER mention the McParts stores like Kragen, Pep Boys or the like as the "next place" they would look for something I didn't have in stock. They would only mention the REAL parts stores in town, the ones who supplied the REAL pros.
The do it yourselfers on the other hand, the guy standing there in his "old" slacks covered in grease holding the starter to his mini van would NEVER mention the REAL parts stores as the next place to look for that part I didn't have, he would ONLY mention PepBoys and Kragen! He didn't even know the REAL parts stores existed!
PLEASE I am not knocking the do it yourselfer, PLEASE understand that. I appreciate where they are, I appreciate the learning curve is steep. I am a do it yourselfer too you know! I fix cars, that is my job. That is what I have done to put food on my table for 25 years. But when I go to have my computer fixed, or a lawn installed, I know NOTHING I will follow the marketing of some goof ball product, I don't know any better.
But there is one thing for sure, when a pro in computers or lawns tells me something, I listen, damn right, I listen.
ain: The pattern I see is similar to the pattern I saw when I was working at a parts counter.
The pros, the people who make a living doing this stuff would NEVER mention the McParts stores like Kragen, Pep Boys or the like as the "next place" they would look for something I didn't have in stock. They would only mention the REAL parts stores in town, the ones who supplied the REAL pros.
The do it yourselfers on the other hand, the guy standing there in his "old" slacks covered in grease holding the starter to his mini van would NEVER mention the REAL parts stores as the next place to look for that part I didn't have, he would ONLY mention PepBoys and Kragen! He didn't even know the REAL parts stores existed!
PLEASE I am not knocking the do it yourselfer, PLEASE understand that. I appreciate where they are, I appreciate the learning curve is steep. I am a do it yourselfer too you know! I fix cars, that is my job. That is what I have done to put food on my table for 25 years. But when I go to have my computer fixed, or a lawn installed, I know NOTHING I will follow the marketing of some goof ball product, I don't know any better.
But there is one thing for sure, when a pro in computers or lawns tells me something, I listen, damn right, I listen.
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