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S10 rack and pinion steering

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So this is not going to work.

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I thought I could adjust it so it would not be "that bad".

But it is just going to have to much bump steer even adding a idler etc.

So it is all getting ripped out and starting fresh.

This is a 94 s10 frame stock control arm G body spindles. The frontend has around 800lbs of sprung weight. This has around a 60% rear bias.

I am thinking a pinto rack off rock auto(something easy to replace) then make my own mounts and links.

But I also dont want to run into a bump steer. Also I dont know which rack will even get me close.

Any one have recomendations on what works? Perferably something you installed on a s10 frame.
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Why not just use the stock S10 components? They work just fine...

Oh I just looked at your picture closer and it looks like you've destroyed everything that the stock steering hooks up to. Oh well ....
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well there is this kit that I am considering.


Seeen a few videos on the install and they went easy enough. No actual testing shown if the kit resulted in bumpsteer.

It also uses a custom rack which I am hoping is not custom just a uncommon year or such so I can get a replacment if the company disapears/changes owners.
 

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Wow. Yeah, just buy the S&W kit. No common stock front-steer rack is narrow enough between the tie rod pivots to work with the S-10 lower a-arm pivot line, so the "modified" one they are selling is probably the thing, they may still not have gotten it narrow enough but I'd imagine if you run your lower a-arms level bump steer is reasonable and it's unlikely you will ever wear it out with the unusual car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes.
I am just going with the trz kit.
Get the thing close to perfect then
I will install adjustable height tie rod ends on the spindles to fine tune it further.

Not cheap. But what I should have from the start.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Those A arms are as low as they can go. I am really happy with how the spring rates are currently and know with a few adjustments with shocks and traction aids I can have the suspension perform dang near perfect.

I think the rack with level tie rods then adjustable ends will lessen bump steer to the equivlant of a factory steering box and idler setup.
 

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A rack from a "rear-steer" (behind the axle) Intrepid should be super-entertaining in a front-steer application. Picture it. Of-course you could re-do your whole thing and put the steering behind the front axle, swapping to early-F spindles with steering arms made for that, but then you'd need a rack with a lot of width which might be a Chevy Celebrity or something. It would be good to look into basic conventional steering/suspension design a bit more to understand what needs to go on. With that, If what you want for your own reasons is for the a-arms to be angled down at rest then the tie rods have to angle down the same. The arcs created during travel have to be working with each other.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
A rack from a "rear-steer" (behind the axle) Intrepid should be super-entertaining in a front-steer application. Picture it. Of-course you could re-do your whole thing and put the steering behind the front axle, swapping to early-F spindles with steering arms made for that, but then you'd need a rack with a lot of width which might be a Chevy Celebrity or something. It would be good to look into basic conventional steering/suspension design a bit more to understand what needs to go on. With that, If what you want for your own reasons is for the a-arms to be angled down at rest then the tie rods have to angle down the same. The arcs created during travel have to be working with each other.
Oh yea.
Back to the TRZ rack kit.

I dont think I can do much about that lower control arm angle. I really dont want to mess with the spring rate.

Need to play with some things this weekend and get things along these lines.

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Basic rule is, tie rods are the same length as the a-arms and run at the same angle, as seen from the front. Go by pivot position, not component shape. If the spindle steering arm places the tie rod level with the lower a-arm then the tie rod will be that length, if it happened to place it even with the upper then it would be that length instead, if the tie rod is positioned (as seen from the front) somewhere in the middle such as with a Mustang II then tie rod length will split the difference proportionately. That way when the suspension moves and the control arms create an arc out at the end which the spindle moves along, the tie rod causes the steering arm attached to the spindle to move along the same arc and voila no bump steer. Whatever the distance between the rack pivots on a particular application is, results from whatever happens to wind up being the proper length for tie rods. The complication is when you have a braking anti-dive angle on the upper a-arms as most cars do, the spindle/upright is rotated along the spindle axis during suspension travel which makes the steering arm raise and lower as compared to the spindle, making perfect bump steer elimination not possible so you just get it close or however you like it which is when you as a designer might be making minor changes to tie-rod length and angle, and that's what all the fuss is about.

Incidentally on a front-steer setup as seen from above, tie rods will angle forward from center to outboard when steered straight ahead, and wind up angling rearward at full lock whether using a pittman-arm or rack-and-pinion scheme.

It gets a little deeper than that, but them's the basics.
 

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A rack from a "rear-steer" (behind the axle) Intrepid should be super-entertaining in a front-steer application.
But an Intrepid is actually a front steer. The rack in behind the struts, but the steering arms on the struts are in front of the tires.

But it does him no good anyways since he wants manual steering.
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I am starting fresh on the steering.

I assumed the drivetrain in place would be enough to figure out the angles.


But this is going to be rear weight biased somewhere between 58 to 65%. I really should finish off the cab 80 lbs, electrical 30lbs, exhaust 60lbs, add 120lbs of coolant and fuel, etc to get all the weight set up to find the correct tie rod lengths and angles.

All of the above is going to add more rear weight bias which will slightly change the at rest height.

Which will affect the compression amount before the wheels lift off the ground.

I am going to push it out of the barn this weekend. I will check some instant center angles with string and floor jack to get a rough idea on tie rod lengths and angles. But I will wait on ordering that rack till I have a better understanding and baseline.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Looking at unisteers setup
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I had what I am hoping is not to crazy of an idea.
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Take basically any manual rack and instead of mounting it 3ish inches off the engine crossmember mount it flush.

Then make a U shaped bracket out of 1/8" angle (with 1" top and bottom flat pieces)
Have the top and bottom of that U ride on/against a flat piece of steel with a layer of grease(shown with Xxxx's) keeping it from moving as the suspension moves.

Then have two gusseted tabs in the front of the U shaped piece that the tie rods connect to.

Worth playing with or nuts?
 
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