[y2k600f4]

I am trying to compare the usage of a stock SBC 4 Qt pan (7.5”) depth and a 7 Qt aftermarket deep sump pan (8.25”) depth with the associated matched extended pickup for the pan (below) both pans have baffles and in this case no windage trays are used; also a HV oil pump is used:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G3502/http://]http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G3502P/

I know there is two purposes of using a deep sump pan:

1. To reduce the windage of the oil: the deeper pan in combo with the kick outs lets you run an oil level lower than OEM to keep it further from the crank by running 4-5 qts in the 7 qt pan
2. To run 3 additional quarts of oil to extend oil change intervals, protection of oil starvation due to leakage etc
My question is in a SBC 383 (400 crank) is there an advantage of running oil levels further from the crank ? What would be the noticeable effects of running the oil level too high be ?? Would the oil splashed splashed on the cylinder walls due to windage over power the rings causing oil consumption to a point until the oil was at a level below the crank that would not be effected by windage ?

 

[carsavvycook]

There is one small problem with the 7 quart pan you have a link to. It is not clearanced for a stroker crankshaft. It will have a knock that will drive you nuts.

 

[y2k600f4]

There is one small problem with the 7 quart pan you have a link to. It is not clearanced for a stroker crankshaft. It will have a knock that will drive you nuts.

I did read that on the summit page. Thing is it was on the engine before the build and was put back on....no noticeable knocking

 

[carsavvycook]

I ordered a Milodon 7 quart oil pan for a 383 stroker. In the box was a non-stroker clearanced oil pan. It had not appeared that the box had been opened before. The next morning, next day air, I received a second one which was clearanced. Summit's customer service is second to no one.

Maybe yours came clearanced for a stroker, and you did not know it.

This blown 383's total fill, with the oil filter is 7 quarts. So the oil pan only has 6 quarts in it at the full mark on the dip stick. The oil does not cavitate, and I have not seen any oil consumption since replacing the cheap/leaky oil pan that was on it a year ago.

 

[y2k600f4]

Thanks for the info....

Actually was hoping to learn about pros/cons of running a deep sump pan full vs normal capacity ??

 

[carsavvycook]

Here is a link to Milodon, and in the left column is their explanation for usage of the various oil pans they make.

http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/oil-pans-from-milodon.asp

 

[cobalt327]

My question is in a SBC 383 (400 crank) is there an advantage of running oil levels further from the crank ?

I think that running the oil lower than where the level would be if using a standard depth pan helps reduce windage, as you said. This is of greater benefit than running additional oil in the pan, IMO.

What would be the noticeable effects of running the oil level too high be ?? Would the oil splashed splashed on the cylinder walls due to windage over power the rings causing oil consumption to a point until the oil was at a level below the crank that would not be effected by windage ?

It could very well overpower the oil control rings as you stated. You would likely lower the level yourself before waiting for the oil to be used up by burning it, though. There would be a lot of noticeable smoke, and the plugs might foul, the engine could well be detonating because of the oil diluting the incoming fuel/air charge, etc.

 

[Jsup]

Hey, I did a lot of research and I went with a Kevko pan.

http://www.kevkoracing.com/

If you call there they will help out. All an oil pan has to do is hold oil, and not leak. I felt the product was of good quality.

They have an adapter pickup for the standard melling pumps.

I'm not promoting them, I just know they can guide you through their product line better than Summit can to make sure you get the right thing. I needed a passenger side dipstick and they made it up for me. They can do what you need. I paid just over $200 for my pan.

 

[engineczar]

All an oil pan has to do is hold oil, and not leak.

You're kidding with this statement right?

There is horsepower to be found in choosing the right configuration of oil pan. Also depending on if a car is to be raced either drag, circle track, or road racing having the correct baffling can make a difference when it comes to keeping the pickup covered and not cooking the bearings.

 

[y2k600f4]

I think that running the oil lower than where the level would be if using a standard depth pan helps reduce windage, as you said. This is of greater benefit than running additional oil in the pan, IMO.

Thanks for the tip...I think I will try to run 5 qts in my 7 qt pan; still 1 qt more than a stock 4qt SBC pan.

Will I be able to trim my dipstick tube to register from 3-7 qts ? 3 being 1 qt low (add) on a 4 qt pan and 7 being full on the 7 qt pan running full capacity (plan on running 5 qt with 4 qt being 1 qt low or "add"). The oil pan depth is 8.25 inches (stock it is 7.5") . Thanks.

 

[cobalt327]

Will I be able to trim my dipstick tube to register from 3-7 qts ?

I'd suggest leaving the tube as-is, and scribe a new "full" and "1 qt. low" lines onto the back side of the original stick. This way, should you decide to run more or less oil later on, you can remark or replace the dipstick, and the tube will be fine.

Add all but 1 quart of oil. Run the engine long enough to circulate the oil to the filter and rest of the engine. Stop it let rest for 5 minutes and mark the stick with the 1 qt. low mark.

Fill w/the last quart and repeat the deal, marking the stick w/a "full" indicator.

In any event, should you want to trim the tube, go by what you see by inserting the stick, not be measuring the depth of the old pan as compared to the new pan. Use what the dipstick indicates to determine how much to remove from the tube.

 

[y2k600f4]

Cobalt327 thanks for the tips I will give that a try. Actually I have trimmed the tube 1" already in the past and have an OEM SBC dipstick with trying to maintain 7qts on the dipstick is difficult. If the level falls .5-1 qts it comes off the dipstick. I am not sure if it is due to the pan shape with the kickout that a very small change in amount of oil in the system results in a larger change on the level shown on the dipstick; it appears I need a longer dipstick than the 19.5" stock one.

 

[y2k600f4]

Frustrated with a simple dipstick

I'm been messing around with this dispstick situation for over a yr and it still is giving me strange and inconsistent readings. I started out with an after market chrome dipstick (installed when I bought the car) which is utilized with an aftermarket summit 7qt pan (with kickouts); also previously installed. I ended up trimming the dipstick tube a while back ~1"...still having problems I picked up an OEM dipstick from a local u-pull-it from a SBC. I think there is something going on in the pan area or where the dipstick goes in the block, since it seems like the dipsitck gets "hung up" in that area. If I place the dipstick in one way the oil reading is off the dipstick if I place it 180 degrees it reads full !!! Also when the dipstick is inserted it sounds like it is rubbing the pan. I recently had the engine rebuilt ~300 miles ago and having a difficult time monitoring the oil level. I really don't want to drop the pan (would have to pull engine). I know a dipstick is a pretty simple thing but I am at witts end on what is going on. Is it this pan ???

 

[cobalt327]

I'm been messing around with this dispstick situation for over a yr and it still is giving me strange and inconsistent readings.

Oh yes- now I remember this dip stick! :evil: lol

 

[ericnova72]

Did you (or the previous owner) forget to install the lower guide dipstick tube into the block?? It goes into the block dipstick tube location before the upper tube is inserted. Its function is to guide the stick down into the pan past the crank and main cap. If it isn't there the dipstick will try to curl either up towards the crank or down and out towards the pan side.

Commonly lost or left out part at rebuild, it is basically just a piece of 5/16" fuel line about 7" long with the flare still on the upper end to keep it from falling through into the pan. The factory piece is slightly larger than 5/16" to fit tighter in the hole, but 5/16" works fine, the upper tube holds it down and tight.

 

[cobalt327]

Did you (or the previous owner) forget to install the lower guide dipstick tube into the block??

Great minds think alike! lol Take a look at post #9, HERE. This was the original thread on the dipstick deal from March. EN72, you even have a post in this thread!

 

[y2k600f4]

Did you (or the previous owner) forget to install the lower guide dipstick tube into the block?? It goes into the block dipstick tube location before the upper tube is inserted. Its function is to guide the stick down into the pan past the crank and main cap. If it isn't there the dipstick will try to curl either up towards the crank or down and out towards the pan side.

Commonly lost or left out part at rebuild, it is basically just a piece of 5/16" fuel line about 7" long with the flare still on the upper end to keep it from falling through into the pan. The factory piece is slightly larger than 5/16" to fit tighter in the hole, but 5/16" works fine, the upper tube holds it down and tight.

That is a great point. Actually looking on the internet before you posted and it seems like all the pics of SBC rebuilds, oil pan gasket/oil pan replacements etc do not show the lower dipstick tube (at least ones I found). During my recent rebuild I stopped by the engine shop a few times and don't recall seeing the lower tube at all !! And it is a good possibilty the previous owner did not install it and then when I got it rebuilt the engine builder did not think to add one What frustrates me I mentioned an issue with the dipstick but I guess he forgot to look into it. Is my only option is to pull engine/drop pan or is there a way to live with it ???



Just got your post Cobalt....

IF the tube that protrudes down into the sump (inside the pan, guides the stick past the crank/caps and points it downward) was badly bent or worse- missing/broken off- the stick's natural tendency to bend could cause the variation in readings.

I guess I am out of luck...does everyone who fogets or missing the lower tube drop their oil pan for a fix ?

UPDATE: Just pulled out pics that the engine builder provided me (prints not digital...old school) and the assembly pics do show the lower tube however it appears to be really short...maybe a few inches. I will post up a pic.

 

[cobalt327]

Just got your post Cobalt....
I guess I am out of luck...does everyone who fogets or missing the lower tube drop their oil pan for a fix ?

NO WAY!

Remove the tube, and take the piece of 5/16" (or whatever's closest) hard line, put a flare on one end, and drop it into the same place the tube goes. The flare will keep it from falling through, then reinstall the tube.

IIRC, the bottom tube is 6"-7" long- I think I have one in the shop- I'll check it and add an edit.

 

[ericnova72]

No need to drop the pan if you can determine that the lower tube is missing. The lower tube drops into the dipstick tube hole in the block before you drive the upper tube into place(press fit). Just pull the upper tube to add it, it is just a perfectly straight piece of tube and will slide right into place.

Cobalt tree'd me LOL :thumbup:

 

[ericnova72]

As per your edit, the tube only protrudes below the oil pan ran a couple of inches or so, about as tall as the main caps are. The rest is up in the block.