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Owner of a broken cart
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Im putting a SBC in my Ford 9N tractor.
(temporarily using an old block that we use as a weight on our disc)

As it turns out, the small block actually fits NEAR perfectly between the tranny and the front axle support.

That is.... IF i can populate the front of the engine with a short enough accessory drive assembly.
I will only be running a crank pulley, water pump, and alt.

It looks like I have 6.75" inches between the front face of the block and the rear of the
radiator. I can fudge a bit more out of it if i have too.

Thats where my question comes in. Is that doable?
If so, is there an existing drive assembly I could use that would fit within this envelope?

As far as I recall, theres a long and short waterpump for the sbc. But I dont have a shorty on hand to measure, and since theres always wild and crazy stuff coming out for the sbc's, I thought i would ask just incase theres something out there i dont know about.

The engine is a 305 (suffix code DDL).

The reason im trying first, to fit this within the stock envelope of the tractor, is so I dont have to lengthen the hood.

Thanks in advance. :)

UPDATE I over looked the front axle to crank clearance. Not doable without lengthening the tractor. Which I will do. ***

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True Hotrodder
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There were two variations on the 23* SBC, the short and long. You can probably search on this site for specific information but from the looks of it, you have plenty of room for a short setup. What is on the engine right now appears to be the 'long" version. You will need the water pump and one set of the single groove pulleys since you're only running an alternator. There is also a different bracket setup for the alternator. Best bet in my opinion is to hit an old wrecking yard - you can probably find what you need there or if you want new, Speedway Motors will have the stuff.
 

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Owner of a broken cart
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I apologize felluhs. :( I missed one thing. The clearance between the front axle mount, and the harmonic balancer/crank pulley.

Looks like its not doable in this manner.
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Im putting a SBC in my Ford 9N tractor.
(temporarily using an old block that we use as a weight on our disc)

As it turns out, the small block actually fits NEAR perfectly between the tranny and the front axle support.

That is.... IF i can populate the front of the engine with a short enough accessory drive assembly.
I will only be running a crank pulley, water pump, and alt.

It looks like I have 6.75" inches between the front face of the block and the rear of the
radiator. I can fudge a bit more out of it if i have too.

Thats where my question comes in. Is that doable?
If so, is there an existing drive assembly I could use that would fit within this envelope?

As far as I recall, theres a long and short waterpump for the sbc. But I dont have a shorty on hand to measure, and since theres always wild and crazy stuff coming out for the sbc's, I thought i would ask just incase theres something out there i dont know about.

The engine is a 305 (suffix code DDL).

The reason im trying first, to fit this within the stock envelope of the tractor, is so I dont have to lengthen the hood.

Thanks in advance. :)

View attachment 524394 View attachment 524395 View attachment 524396 View attachment 524397
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The most compact pulley arrangement is the old 283/327 short standard rotation water pump with the corresponding crank balancer. Use a single groove V belt arrangement. not a serpentine belt. Click on two sites below. The balance you need is in the second site in the picture on far right in the black frame. Black SBC Chevy 283-350 Short Water Pump pulley set Single 1 Groove SWP Crank
The most compact pulley arrangement is the old 283/327 short standard rotation water pump with the corresponding crank balancer. Use a single groove V belt arrangement. not a serpentine belt. Click on two sites below. The balance you need is in the second site in the picture on far right in the black frame. Black SBC Chevy 283-350 Short Water Pump pulley set Single 1 Groove SWP Crank
The most compact pulley arrangement is the old 283/327 short standard rotation water pump with the corresponding crank balancer. Use a single groove V belt arrangement. not a serpentine belt. Click on two sites below. The balance you need is in the second site in the picture on far right in the black frame. Black SBC Chevy 283-350 Short Water Pump pulley set Single 1 Groove SWP Crank
The most compact pulley arrangement is the old 283/327 short standard rotation water pump with the corresponding crank balancer. Use a single groove V belt arrangement. not a serpentine belt. Click on two sites below. The balance you need is in the second site in the picture on far right in the black frame.

Black SBC Chevy 283-350 Short Water Pump pulley set Single 1 Groove SWP Crank

With this compact arrangement, the alternator will have to be mounted on the right side (passenger side) of the engine outboard of the headers of exhaust manifold. In a N series Ford tractor, this will put the alternator outboard of the radiator shell. Not really a big deal but just letting you know.
 

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More for Less Racer
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You're not going to find any pulley combination that will work for the simple fact that when pressed onto the crankshaft snout the front edge of a stock balancer or hub is going to be 2-7/8" to 2-15/16" out from the front face of the block.....space that 327 AMC just doesn't have already, and that doesn't even include 5/8" or so for a single groove pulley. Even those little thin 283 hubs still put that front face in the same spot....because they were all spec'd to the same short waterpump length and pulleys.
The Alan Grove Components pulley chart shows that the short pump single groove crank pulley groove centerline is 3-1/4", which puts the outer edge somewhere close to 3-9/16" out from face of the block.

The only possible way this might work is to take a small balancer or the 283 hub, cut the seal neck length a small amount to move the entire balancer back until you have minimum clearance to the timing cover, then cut a pulley groove right in the OD of the balancer or hub. You'll have to fab up a custom alternator mount to get belt alignment, and use an electric water pump....but this might be a possible solution.

Or just take a piece of steel or aluminum 4-6" round and machine up your own hub with pulley groove in it to fit the avaialble space....basically, a shorter, thinner version of a blower drive hub........it's not lke you are going to be running this at the mileage and/or upper rpm range where a lack of actual crankshaft damping is going to lead to failure.

This is more or less a show tractor, right??
With a gear case meant for 24 hp, it won't last long if you plan to enter pull competitions with it. To just start up and drive around a show, it'll last nearly forever despite no actual damper on it.
 

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You will notice in Marvin Baumann's post, he lengthened the tractor 4 inches to make room for front accessories. In particular the balancer and pulley. The radius rods and drag links would have to be lengthened 4" along with the hood and cowl. You my be able to lengthen a little less than 4" but if you have to lengthen, you might as well make it easy to work on. When you're all done, go easy on the old N drive train. Remember it was designed to handle less than 30 HP.
 

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Owner of a broken cart
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463 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks a bunch for the great ideas! Ya, in the end, it looks like a no go unless I fab up my own balancer and put a pulley groove in it. I have a lathe and it sounds fun. But I'll just lengthen the tractor instead. Like '48 Austin said, that'll just make working on it easier anyways. Was just wondering if it could be pulled off with no other mods.
You guys were excellent help. Very much appreciated! 👏
Im sure i'll be posting again about radiator selection, and finding a clutch that will swap easily.
 

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More for Less Racer
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What is the piece of channel right in front of the crank? Can it be removed? Never touched a tractor.
That's the mount for the roll center pivot pin the front axle rotates on, like a teeter-totter point. The big bent forging curling back and out to both sides is the I beam axle...you can see it heading right out the drivers side front wheel in the photo.
The back of that channel piece bolted to the fromt of the original engine block....the block was effectively the chassis of the tractor at that point, no seperate frame rails

That channels not ot a part that could be removed.

Most tractors up to the early 1950's the major castings also served as the frame of the tractor....engine block, clutch housing/gearbox, rear axle were also structural pieces of the tractor
 

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Run a 4.3.

It is roughly 5" shorter then a 350.
You can mount a thick bracket directly on the front of the motor which will attach to the front of the tractior serving as a iron support, serve as a fan shroud, acessory support(with belt cutouts) , and it will bolt up to your current adapter.

Your going to loose a little power. But as stated you dont need a ton here. The 4.3 has tons of support. You can find them anywhere and run carb to full vvt fuel injection.

I have built a couple light weight rides. While having tons of power is fun. The first thing you learn when building something for lightweight is you only run the weight and power you need.

Less power, lighter duty parts, less weight on suspension, rims, etc.

When you add power things go the other way. You need heavier duty parts or those made out of more expensive materials, that added weight puts more weight on the suspension, and so on.

While weight may not seem like a issue. The power a v8 is going to make may hurt things and require heavier duty parts.

Ever see a jeep cj with a Cummins 4bt installed? The factory drivetrain and suspension simply can not handle to the added engine weight and power. The thing becomes heavy and where a 4 cylinder 2.5 would be floating the valves while the tires flew through mud a cummins in that same ride would be buried deep or broke shortly after it's grill got dirty.

With a 4.3 you can have your power increase, the thing will fit, you will have the dual exhaust, and years of parts availability. Your going to be limited by the transmission then the rear axle. A 4.3 is more then capable of hitting these limits even exceeding the output of smog style v8 engines.
 

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Owner of a broken cart
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463 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks. Yes a 4.3 is a drop in. But im not interested in a 4.3.

I could fab up a completely new front axle cradle/pivot. That wouldnt be terribly hard, and would solve the issue and give me the clearance. I have 2 other tractors, I think i'll save that mod for one of them down the road. I need to get this tractor done to move on to another project that I need to get done before spring.
 
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