[itsmecord]

So here is where I am at,I bought my wife a 72' karmann ghia a while back that had hit a deer and was in BAD shape.So far I have been able to get the nose,and fender back into shape with hammer's/dollies.This is my first ever attempt at sheet metal work,and to be quite honest I went at it rather blind.
So now I have little lump's in the metal which is WAY better than what I started with.What should I do now ? slap hammer,shrinking disk,torch ? I could post pics but none are really of any help.

 

[timothale]

lumps and bumps

Now you have it roughed out you could try a large sanding block or go easy with a file to see the highs and lows and continue to work them out. on bad stretches I have used a torch to take down stretches by shrinking. you don't have to get the spot red hot. it just takes longer when you use less heat. I have found that you still have to do a lot of hammer work before using a shrinking disc. I took a body class years ago and occasionally fix my cars.... major damage with insurance coverage goes to a pro. I have a couple of home made bulls eye picks that help when I have trouble tapping where I am looking. pipe bent into a c. a hinge and a bottom target. screw in heads so I can shape a bolt as need for hammer head.

 

[itsmecord]

Thanx or the advise,I went over it all with a file to see my highs/lows last nigh,and I am rather happy with my progress.I really need to get some more body hammer's as I only have 2 and 1 dollie.Any other tips ?

 

[itsmecord]

Is there no body men here ?

 

[John Kelly]

Karmann Ghia noses are tricky. I have repaired many of them, and used to make repair sections. The bead area is very often repaired incorrectly. If the bead is damaged, you might want to make a special tool to fix it. Something chisel shaped with the bead contours on the end, that you can hammer the bead out with. A hardwood or plastic block carved out for the out side shape will help. Have someone hold the block on the outside while you hammer from the inside to re-form the bead.

If you go to youtube and do a search for gull wing inn, you will come across my channel. I show easy dent repair methods using simple tools, how to pick a hammer and dolly etc. A shrinking disc is a great tool, but you can do your shrinking with a torch as well, once you learn low temperature shrinking. Heat the metal until it swells a little bit (no color change), and quench. If you see steam, you are shrinking. You can do this as many times as you want without hurting the metal.

John

 

[lilgreenjeepyj]

A shrinking disc is a great tool, but you can do your shrinking with a torch as well, once you learn low temperature shrinking. Heat the metal until it swells a little bit (no color change), and quench. If you see steam, you are shrinking. You can do this as many times as you want without hurting the metal.

John

Where can I find more details on this low temperature shrinking?

 

[John Kelly]

We are not allowed to post web sites that have our own free information in them if they also have a small amount of commercial content. I am allowed to tell you that my youtube channel has a lot of good free information about metal-finishing. As stated above, search youtube for gullwinginn and then find my channel. Or PM me for the channel link. The channel has about 17 free videos on metal finishing and metalshaping. Start with Custom Metal Bodywork parts 1, and 9 through 12. I do not show torch shrinking yet, but the temperatures and techniques are the same or close to the same. I plan on a torch shrinking video soon.... mostly to show how to shape metal with a torch, but it is all inter-related.

John

 

[itsmecord]

john kelly-I think I know who you are....I am 1badghia over on thesamba and MY "build" photo's are there that show just how bad my car started out.Since you know ghia's you will know what I am saying when I tell you that the nose ridge was damaged to the extent where the factory seem that is folded over ? has busted and there is little left to work with. Do you think that it would work taking the hood which is in bad shap, and cuting the ridge out of it about 2" either side then shrinking the edges untill the contour matches the ghia nose ?

 

[John Kelly]

The bead on the hood is more steep than the nose bead if I remember correctly. This could work to your advantage when shrinking the edges as you propose to do. It is likely that the bead will lose some of its shape as you shrink the edges. Worth an experiment to see if it will work. What kind of shrinking are you planning? Tuck shrinking would work very well for that as would an edge shrinker. The edge shrinker is a little easier to use but does not leave as nice a surface condition for something like this with a lot of shrinking.

John

 

[itsmecord]

Well,I have not actually decided what method I will try.I dont know how to do either so I guess it will be trial and error.To make sure I am understanding what you are saying let me tell you what I interpreted: the hoods ridge is basically deeper than the noses.When I start pulling/shaping it to the nose contour it will flatten out possibly getting closer to what the stock nose would have been ?

 

[Dawai]

Yep, you got a reply from one of the best in my book..
J-Kelly.. a great man at using what he has and making silk purses from sows ears..

My suggestion, a shrinking disk.. hit it on the metal heat it's high spots only, spray water to "SHRINK" the high spots you just heated up.

Dolly up the low spots, repeat as needed.. the shrinking disc if you keep it lubed up with soap it should not gall up.. NOISY..

I was working on a flat sheet of metal on a vibrator sander.. it melted the rubber pad behind the metal..

NOW.. for that shrinking disc.. you can buy a cheap stainless pot, use the lid, or go hog wild and buy a pro model.. look to Youtube.

John.. I appreciate seeing you coming out to share you knowledge.. And you are humble too.. HURRAH FOR YOU.. With all the loud braggart armchair quarterbacks in all these forums.. I appreciate your input..

There are metal meets where people with good nature share skills and information freely.. there are real good training sessions with people who are the best there is too.. if you have deep pockets or holes in them like me.

 

[John Kelly]

Yes, the bead should lose some of its contour to more closely match the nose bead when you change the curve of the part by shrinking the edges. Practice on scrap first to make sure that what I am thinking is correct. A fundamental of metal tweaking is that when you change the contour in one direction, the perpendicular contour will also change. More curve in one way, means less in the other. Usually this is true only when you do not actually shrink or stretch the metal to make it re-curve, but roll, bend, or tweak it instead. In this case I think that even though you are shrinking, it will hold true, because the shrinking is pulling the contour for you, and I would expect the bead to become more flat. Hope this makes sense.

Thanks for the kind words Dawai!

John

 

[itsmecord]

John it makes perfect since ! Thanx for you help.
Here is a pic of what I started with.I is WAY worse than it looks,if I had to guess at the amount of bondo I have removed at this time I would say it was close to 50 pounds.....I actually filled a milk crate with dinner plate size chunks upwards of 2" thick.After I got that off I took my pocket knife and gouged the body everywhere and found out that I had only begun removing bondo ! The P/O had bondo in places that were as smooth as the factory built it ?????
John,do you have any advice or tips for building the channel that hold the seal that the hood closes against ? I had to cut mine out because It was in such bad shape.I was thinking about bending some of the appropriate size c channel to fit the contour.

 

[MARTINSR]

John makes some GREAT videos and sells discs, they are available at http://ghiaspecialties.com/

He can't advertise but darn it, I sure can tell you how happy I have been with his product! And YES, he knows Ghias! The photo is from his home page.

Brian

 

[itsmecord]

Yea,I have watched his work on youtube and over at a ACVW site I frequent when they aren't all being jerk off's about my "ruining" a classic somewhat rare VW,I have seen photo's of his work,and talked to alot of people that swear by him,and his disk....I want to get one but am to broke right now to swing it.

 

[Dawai]

ruining" a classic somewhat rare VW

Ha... need a few pictures of the toys around my house? Do what you feel like. Put some 57 chevy tail fins on it if you want to.

When I painted the old GA state patrol bike BURPLE?? with ghost flames and metalflake. I was the joke of the family. Personally, I love it. Much better than feeling I was sitting on a refrigerator.

How deformed is your fenders? do you need to match them up? ever seen a tape pattern made with fiberglass tape?? it comes off the part and holds it's shape, flip it inside out and it fits the other side.. once it is shaped like it.

I've not met JohnK yet.. nor some others I have saw help people here and there. I think what I got most from John's video (1) that I saw was to use what you have, and be more stubborn than the metal. Simple, if you don't try, you can't do.

I now have more tools than I can close the garage doors on. THE basics is what I keep reaching for.

 

[John Kelly]

John it makes perfect since ! Thanx for you help.
Here is a pic of what I started with.I is WAY worse than it looks,if I had to guess at the amount of bondo I have removed at this time I would say it was close to 50 pounds.....I actually filled a milk crate with dinner plate size chunks upwards of 2" thick.After I got that off I took my pocket knife and gouged the body everywhere and found out that I had only begun removing bondo ! The P/O had bondo in places that were as smooth as the factory built it ?????
John,do you have any advice or tips for building the channel that hold the seal that the hood closes against ? I had to cut mine out because It was in such bad shape.I was thinking about bending some of the appropriate size c channel to fit the contour.

I would try to find a parts car and cut that section out...failing that, a hammer form made from two pieces of 1/2" square stock bent to the shape of the channel. Clamp a piece of sheet metal on the hammer form and make the flanges by pounding the metal over the form. Takes a bit of practice, but you can make nice parts this way.

You can bend 1/2" square stock by tapping with a heavy hammer over a piece of wood to form curves.

Thanks Brian for the kind words!

John

 

[itsmecord]

A parts car was obviously my first thought; however when I FINALLY found one it was at a salvage yard about an hour away and he wants $300 for the shell and it is in worse shape than mine.I am stuck with making all my own parts.Thanx for the quick tip on how-to do it.