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jbon64
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Discussion Starter #1
hi all . recently i built a 350 SBC and installed it on a run in stand . the problem i'm having is the starter wont disengage off the fly wheel . it doesnt do it every time and i've tried 3 different starters , same thing with all 3. i've also shimmed the starter thinking the gap was too tight , i shimmed it so far that the teeth dont make full contact on the flywheel and makes a god awful sound , even shimmed that far out ,the gear still doesnt retract back in the starter. any thoughts ??
 

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jeff bonnell said:
hi all . recently i built a 350 SBC and installed it on a run in stand . the problem i'm having is the starter wont disengage off the fly wheel . it doesnt do it every time and i've tried 3 different starters , same thing with all 3. i've also shimmed the starter thinking the gap was too tight , i shimmed it so far that the teeth dont make full contact on the flywheel and makes a god awful sound , even shimmed that far out ,the gear still doesnt retract back in the starter. any thoughts ??
Does the engine fire up or are you just turning it over with starter? If engine isn't firing up and running that may be why it is staying engaged?
While it is engaged and stuck, take a socket and put on balancer bolt and turn it backwards slightly,and see if it retracts.
These flywheels nowdays are not very round, a lot are about as round as a goose egg, cluld be the reason it is sticking intermittently.
 

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jbon64
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Discussion Starter #3
yeah it has started and ran plenty of times , sometimes it disengages fine . other times it has fired up and ran with the gear still engaged . i never considered the flywheel being out of round ....good thought . thanks
 

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Doc here, :pimp:

Be sure your not mixing a 153 with 168 tooth starter/flywheel and / or Visa~Versa..

Doc :pimp:
 

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jbon64
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Discussion Starter #6
302/z28 , i started with a cheap mini starter , went to a used stocker i had , then bought a re-conditioned / new stocker. same problem with all of them.

doc- i considered this at one point , if i had a 163flywheel and a 153 starter , wouldnt the clearance (or lack of ) put the starter gear into the side of the flywheel instead of mesh with F/W gears ? and vice -versa , wouldnt a 163 starter against a smaller flywheel cause such a large gap that the starter wouldnt engage at all and just spin ?
 

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Doc here, :pimp:

That is a possibility, but I have also seen them extend the Bendix and just lock against the flywheel too..where the starter is just bound tight..

Another Problem with those, is anymore , today's machining is not as exact as is required to match a Marginal mounting area to a block..not uncommon to hear somebody go through 5 or 6 before getting one to work..I Always advocate rebuilding the one that failed. Cheap and easy to do..and no fit issues.

Another possibility is an out~of ~Round ring gear.

Doc :pimp:
 

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The problem is you need a relay for that delco mini starter. It a permanent magnetic starter. Do you have the battery mounted in the trunk or stock location? (this question is for my personal info.)
From my understanding the starters when spun by the engine flywheel will produce energy just like a alternator. The stater will feed its self this energy and continue to runs after you have released your key from the start position. The relay is used to prevent the starter from feeding itself this energy when the gear gets spun from the flwheel.
 

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World Class ASE tech
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3 different starters and they all do it. I would check the wiring or switch. Sounds like the power is staying on the little terminal and the solenoid is staying engaged.
 

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Doc here, :pimp:

Well, Since he states it's on a test stand..I doubt it's a magnetic hang problem..at all..

Also, can probably rule out wiring, as there shouldn't be any except Battery and "S"..

I'd be more inclined to say, poor machining on today's starters, OR an out of round ring gear..OR ring gear installed backward.

Doc :pimp:
 

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Did you shim it on one side only? I had to do that to my mini starter.

dgcantrellsr has got me thinking though. I was not starting the motor when I was adjusting the shims. It does work how I got it now but I think it could sound better at starting. I got 2 shims all the way accross and 2 on the motor side to get it from not sticking. I think I will start over with dgcantrellsr advise.
 

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64nova said:
Did you shim it on one side only? I had to do that to my mini starter.

dgcantrellsr has got me thinking though. I was not starting the motor when I was adjusting the shims. It does work how I got it now but I think it could sound better at starting. I got 2 shims all the way accross and 2 on the motor side to get it from not sticking. I think I will start over with dgcantrellsr advise.
Doc here, :pimp:

Give you a little hint that has worked well for me over many years...

Get it shimmed to the best you feel you can, then snug (NOT TIGHT) the bolts, start and stop the engine 5 or 6 times..then torque the bolts down.

This allows the starter to Automatically "self center" in the mounts.

Doc :pimp:
 

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I can prove you need a relay. Disconnet the coil so the car cannot start. Then attempt to start the car while someone watches the gear engage and disengage from the flywheel. I bet you the gear will not stick in the flywheel. It will only stay engaged if the engine starts and and no relay is used with that type of starter.
Trust me.
That is a simple and $0 test for you to try
 

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Funny< I thought I saw needed a starter relay with a mini starter??? I don't have any relays on any of my Chevs. Sounds to me like an ignition switch not adjusted right. Try a spade connect in the Purple or solenoind wire at the starter and if it stays in disconnect it. If it stops you are getting a back feed. On older Chev wiring the starter runs 12v to the coil + then when key is released it goes through resistance wire on ignition. I've seen late model HEI wired this way when not needed and causes a back feed to the solenoid and the starter stays running. HEI needs no wire from starter and make sure 12v all the time. No Chev uses a relay seperate from the starter like a Ford that has no solenoid on starter. Only time I've ever seen this is for heat problems and they will put one in as and extra boost for heat.
 

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Doc here, :pimp:

IF I read it correctly..I think you guys are missing the point..There is NO Car..

The engine is on the engine stand..according to his FIRST post..AND, this is a common ailment on an engine stand engine..

Read this from POWER MASTER:

I test fitted the starter and noticed that the pinion does not retract when it is released on the engine stand. Why?


It is normal for a gear reduction starter to hang in the ring gear when the engine is cranked, and yet does not start. Direct drive starters do not do this because they can rotate the small amount necessary to retract the pinion. Gear reduction starters do not retract in this situation because of the resistance of the gears. The tiny amount of rotation necessary to retract the pinion is amplified in the gear ratio inside the starter, requiring four to five times the rotation insude the starter. All of this gear movement results in the pinion remaining in the ring gear until the engine fires.
For More:Powermaster Starters

That Is if I read his first post correctly..if not My Bad..sorry..

Doc :pimp:
 

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Correction. I am running a ford soleniod on my chevy. I know you will require a relay using the ford soleniod.
 

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SuperSport said:
Correction. I am running a ford soleniod on my chevy. I know you will require a relay using the ford soleniod.

Doc here, :pimp:

You are not entirely Wrong here..

Certain Starter solenoids that are magnetic prone , using a remote relay , have a tendency To hold the collapsing magnetic field through the long runs of wire, long enough for the starter to become a "Generator" That will hold the solenoid in..and powered..This is where a Relay (or secondary Solenoid) comes into play, to cut the connections at the source.

This would apply if the Battery was remotely mounted in the trunk, and you had 21 feet of 0/0 gauge wire feeding the forward solenoid..

In this case, The way I read it, there is NO CAR..engine stand only..meaning (hopefully) short runs of cable and minimum wire count.

Doc :pimp:
 

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My car has the battery mounted in the trunk, with a ford solenoid ,and 0/1 cable. It had the run on condition till the relay.
 

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jbon64
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Discussion Starter #20
64nova said:
Did you shim it on one side only? I had to do that to my mini starter.


THIS is what worked !!!! i shimmed the out board side of the starter only this time , and so far it hasnt hung up at all . much thanks to every one who replied with suggestions .
 
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