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Last time I checked electric motors not only outnumbered ICE they did harder work better.

Let me point at almost any factory in the last 80 years.

If gas was more reliable, or efficient, or better in any significant way it would have been used.

The exception is diesel. But the simple fact isn that all the diesels currently being made either have engines, exhaust, or other compotents that limit there lifespan to less then 10 years.

Now batterys will die. But permanent magnet motors will outlive you and me with a bit of upkeep.

The batteries will get better. Like I said the automakers were dragging there feet for years because everyone was happy with a truck that got 20mpg and a car that got 35. As long as it had that new dash gizmo it sold.
 

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Reply: You are living in wonderland if you think that getting discharged electric vehicles moving will be as simple as getting ICEs moving when their energy supply becomes depleted. We already have history to show what happens when there are ICEs that run out of fuel. Yep, pour a little fuel in them and they are good for another 50-100 miles in about 5 minutes. The electric vehicles will not and cannot be replenished anywhere near that quickly, and the domino effect means the situation will get worse as others wait their turn for that tow truck.
So you "pour" some electrons in an EV and you get 20 miles instead of 50 in the same amount of time? Using your metaphor, what if one of those cars you're trying to get moving is a Pro Touring Camaro with a 502 that gets 5 mpg. The same couple gallons of fuel will only get him 10 miles. Or suppose it's a 29 Nash that gets 4 mpg. You're scenario is only a problem if you assume that everyone will switch to EVs faster than the infrastructure supports it, which historically hasn't been the case. Think about when we first started doing ICEs in vehicles around the turn of the century. Do you think we had 4 gas stations on every street corner then? We figured it out.

Here is a quote:

As Texas finds itself in the midst of a rare and brutal blast of winter weather, with temperatures plunging below freezing levels, over 4.3 million people across the US state have been left without power after high demand for electricity caused the power grid to repeatedly fail. (4.3 MILLION PEOPLE ........)
Texas got screwed by legislative choices, it was a freak storm, and freak things will always happen. If you want to assume global panic based on one isolated power outage in one state that had nothing to do with anything other than legislative idiocy, be my guest.

And, how do you think the gas pumps operate at the station? Do you think that ICEs had an advantage when they couldn't get fuel for their vehicles as well? At least with an EV you can fire up a generator with some gasoline stolen from your lawnmower.

“We needed to step in and make sure that we were not going to end up with Texas in a blackout, which could keep folks without power — not just some people without power. In the meantime, electricity prices spiked more than 10,000 per cent when the storm hit the state earlier this week, CNN reported. Real-time wholesale market prices on the power grid were more than $9,000 per megawatt hour by Monday morning, as compared to pre-storm prices of less than $50 per megawatt hour, Reuters reported.
Agreed, but it has zero to do with whether or not EVs are a viable mode of transportation. Texas' inability to make logical power legislation does not a global panic make.


NO WE DON'T. AND we don't have enough at virtually any exit to service a lot of cars at the same time. Think how many times you have pulled into a gas station at an exit and had to wait in line to fill your gasoline powered vehicle. If it takes 5 times longer to fill the same number of vehicles because they are electric, how long will you be there? (Will your tow truck be electric use its power to run the generator)
First of all.... electric generator? Think about what you just typed there. Tow trucks (and 99.99% of every other vehicle) have a belt-driven accessory drive with a glorious device called an alternator. I'll let you extrapolate from that. For 60 years now, companies have been making 120v, 240v, and 277v AC generators for vehicle belt-driven applications if the needs require it.
I've waited plenty of times for gasoline. If a longer wait time for electricity is your primary argument, it's ridiculous, first-world, privileged drivel. You are also looking at first and second generation EVs and charging. There will be more charging stations, faster technologies, and new advances, just like how we no longer have flathead Fords.


Reply:
Then why do battery powered tool manufacturers not offer 10 year warranties on their batteries? All my battery powered tools are Li Ion and the longest guarantee I can find is 3 years. Most of the manufacturers offer 1 or 2 years only. Yes, some will last longer but most will not.
Plenty of them do offer lifetime warranties. You're talking apples and oranges. You're talking about a $100 drill that was made with a dozen 18650 cells from the cheapest possible bidder and assembled with terrible electronics and charge controllers. Then you abuse the crap out of those batteries going through full charge/discharge cycles every couple hours. They get hot, and then the charger circuit's job is to bulk charge as fast as possible. Then you're comparing it to a $70,000 EV with extensive software and hardware charging controls, thousands of battery cells, and sophisticated systems.

Listen, we get it.... you detest EVs, but the examples you are giving are so wildly inapplicable that it's just comical. You're fabricating unrelated truths based on incorrect assessments of old technology, then extrapolating that future innovations couldn't possibly be developed to continue EV's viability. If you believe the things you're saying, don't buy an EV. Only reason I don't have one is because I am cheap and none of them are in my price range, but once they match my wallet size, I'm fine with them.

I suggest you do some research on battery chemistry, charge efficacy, and stability of newer battery engineering. Right now you're talking NiCad. This is a whole new world.

Reply: Really? Electric vehicles have proven far more reliable than ICEs ? You might want to rethink that statement. ICEs have most certainly proven effective, efficient, and reliable Green Car reports that there are approximately 1.2 BILLION cars in use on a daily basis worldwide. That doesn't include boats and ships, and tractors, and industrial machines, and even generators. Then there are the ones used in airplanes which demand a reasonable amount of RELIABILITY. Nope, that statement is about as correct as the rest of the stuff you posted.
Yes. Realy.
Owning an electric car really does save money, Consumer Reports finds | Ars Technica
This site even goes as far as saying that - on the average - you would have to replace the batteries every 3 years in an EV to spend as much as you would on keeping an ICE on the road.

So, yes. Really.
 

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Ok let me put this into something already available.
Electric vs ICE forklifts.

With old lead acid batteries the two running under the same conditions.

Forgetting all the additional maintance that the ICE requires(oil, coolant, spark, gaskets, etc) the ICE was competive and could outlast the service life of the battery pack on the Electric.

This is no longer the case. Improved battery packs are slowly replacing the lead acid ones. It should be noted that a majority of these replacements are just the battery pack(and the charger) using a forklift with the same electric motor/controller/ hardware that may over 30 years old.

Your not increasing voltage just capacity or reducing weight with the same capacity. Because most of these use the battery as a counter weight then that means increased capacity.

Not only is there no comparison. The improved battery packs leave the lead ones in the dust. They also blow past the slight advantage that ICE had over those lead acid batteries.

They charge faster(little/no cooldown), discharge that charge better, and have a lifespan of 10 years in most cases.

Right now the prices are competive to replacing lead 3 times vs 1 newer for a 10 year span.
Where these newer batterys shine is the reduced maintance, charge time, and ease of use(less switching/charging).
As more of them hit the market slowly replacing the lead ones the prices will drop as with any new technology replacing old technology.
 

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So you "pour" some electrons in an EV and you get 20 miles instead of 50 in the same amount of time? Using your metaphor, what if one of those cars you're trying to get moving is a Pro Touring Camaro with a 502 that gets 5 mpg. The same couple gallons of fuel will only get him 10 miles. Or suppose it's a 29 Nash that gets 4 mpg. You're scenario is only a problem if you assume that everyone will switch to EVs faster than the infrastructure supports it, which historically hasn't been the case. Think about when we first started doing ICEs in vehicles around the turn of the century. Do you think we had 4 gas stations on every street corner then? We figured it out.
Reply: Talk about using rediculous comparisons, .........

Look, at the beginning of the 1900s, people were relying on horses and bicycles which means (as you said) there were not gasoline stations on every corner. Thats true, but the difference here is that the government did not mandate that horses and bicycles could no longer be used as (pick a date) 1910. So the difference you fail to see is that the change came about gradually due to the needs and preferences of the public, and the technology improved because of competition between manufacturers. Can you grasp the idea that this all came about somewhat slowly and over a long period of time and wasn't a government mandate. That should be pretty easy to grasp.





Texas got screwed by legislative choices, it was a freak storm, and freak things will always happen. If you want to assume global panic based on one isolated power outage in one state that had nothing to do with anything other than legislative idiocy, be my guest.
Reply: So you don't think that a government passing laws to require the change to electrical vehicles BEFORE they have the solutions for potential problems is legislative idiocy?




And, how do you think the gas pumps operate at the station? Do you think that ICEs had an advantage when they couldn't get fuel for their vehicles as well? At least with an EV you can fire up a generator with some gasoline stolen from your lawnmower.
They operate from electricty of course. One gasoline or natural gas back up generator at a gas station can fuel probably 10 cars (or however many pumps they have) at the same time. ONE gasoline generator on a wrecker will fuel ONE car at a time AND take substantially longer.


Agreed, but it has zero to do with whether or not EVs are a viable mode of transportation. Texas' inability to make logical power legislation does not a global panic make.
Texas is just one example, but IT DID HAPPEN and you can't refute that fact. I'm merely asking you to consider what Texas would have been like at that point in time if everyone had EVs. It demonstrates that in life you have to expect that things like that will happen and you/the government should have a plan to deal with it. So tell us how much better things would have been in Texas with everyone having EVs during the Ice Storm. Tell us how much better New Orleans would have been during Katrina if everyone only had EVs.
Since you believe disasters are RARE, here is some info:

In October, the National Centers for Environmental Information – under the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration – created a list of 115 natural disasters responsible for at least $1 billion in damage in the United States between 2010 and 2019. Texas experienced the most billion-dollar natural disasters in the decade at 54, with Kansas, Oklahoma, Missouri and Illinois not far behind, according to the agency's associated map. Hawaii was the only state that did not experience a billion-dollar disaster in the decade, according to the map.

The Top Ten


10. Snowpocalypse in Southeast, January 2014

When:
Jan. 28-30, 2014
Cost: $2.4 billion
Ill-prepared for winter weather, Gulf Coast and Southeastern states from Louisiana to Virginia witnessed several inches of snow, ranging from 1 inch of snow in Pensacola, Florida, to 10 inches in Virginia Beach, according to NOAA. While only 2 inches fell in the Atlanta metro area, it caused tens of thousands of commuters to be gridlocked, with more than 1,500 accidents, 175 injuries and at least one death related to the road conditions, according to the Georgia State Patrol.
Note: Notice the part that says "tens of thousands gridlocked" and "1500 accidents"

4. Superstorm Sandy Strikes East Coast, 2012

When:
October 2012
Cost: $73.5 billion
Sandy brought a record storm surge on New York City; Sandy Hook, New Jersey; and Bridgeport, Connecticut. An area stretching from western North Carolina to Ohio to New England experienced high winds. More than 159 people were killed, and a peak of 8.6 million customers were without power. Hurricane Sandy merged with a developing nor'easter storm, causing severe damage with snow, wind and rain, as well as forcing the New York Stock Exchange to close for two consecutive days – a feat that hadn't occurred since a major winter storm in 1888, according to NOAA.
Note: 8.6 Million without power

1. Hurricane Maria Cripples Puerto Rico, 2017

When:
Sept. 19-21, 2017
Cost: $93.6 billion
Hitting Puerto Rico as a Category 4 hurricane, Maria's high winds severely impacted the island's transportation, agriculture, communication and energy infrastructure, according to NOAA. Its extreme rainfall of up to 37 inches also led to widespread flooding and mudslides. While the death toll remains unknown, researchers estimate Maria killed between 2,900 and 4,600 people, making it one of the U.S.'s deadliest storms, according to The Weather Channel. It also damaged or destroyed more than 300,000 homes.
Note: The US had to go in and completely rebuild PRs inadequate electrical power system and power shortages existed for months and months.

And this is just the major ones (Top 13) If you care to see them all, go to https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...natural-disasters-of-the-past-decade?slide=11


What happens when its just much smaller (but still devastating) storms and people are stranded in freezing weather? No heat in their homes and no vehicle to find shelter.

SO DON"T SAY THIS KIND OF STUFF DOESN"T HAPPEN OR THAT ITS A STRECH OF THE IMAGINATION THAT IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN........................and AGAIN.


First of all.... electric generator? Think about what you just typed there. Tow trucks (and 99.99% of every other vehicle) have a belt-driven accessory drive with a glorious device called an alternator. I'll let you extrapolate from that. For 60 years now, companies have been making 120v, 240v, and 277v AC generators for vehicle belt-driven applications if the needs require it.
I've waited plenty of times for gasoline. If a longer wait time for electricity is your primary argument, it's ridiculous, first-world, privileged drivel. You are also looking at first and second generation EVs and charging. There will be more charging stations, faster technologies, and new advances, just like how we no longer have flathead Fords.
Reply: Characterize it how ever you wish, but you still can't say that dealing with a gridlock of thousands of cars (see Snowpocalypse example above) in winter weather would have been handled better if all thye vehicles were electric. You can rant all you want, and talk about how things will be "in the future", but the truth is that when EVs get stranded enmasse, its goin to be a debacle. Why don't you just admit that the conversion to EVs should be a slow process done over time and as solutions are found.............just like the conversion from horses and bicycles was done?


Plenty of them do offer lifetime warranties. You're talking apples and oranges. You're talking about a $100 drill that was made with a dozen 18650 cells from the cheapest possible bidder and assembled with terrible electronics and charge controllers. Then you abuse the crap out of those batteries going through full charge/discharge cycles every couple hours. They get hot, and then the charger circuit's job is to bulk charge as fast as possible. Then you're comparing it to a $70,000 EV with extensive software and hardware charging controls, thousands of battery cells, and sophisticated systems.
Please tell me their names. I must have missed that when I bought my Li-Ion tools. You lump everything into one basket and accuse ALL of them of being deficient. Personally, I love my inexpensive Li-Ion tools.


Listen, we get it.... you detest EVs, but the examples you are giving are so wildly inapplicable that it's just comical.
Again, you insult people and characterize them to fit your narrative. I have said that I have nothing against EVs and believe that they will serve a good purpose in society. I don't believe we are at the point where completely relying on one form of providing energy is a good idea. There are many things to consider and the problems haven't been addressed much less solved. I would like to see people who can use the electrical vehicles for short work commutes and in cities where many charging stations can be available.......do so. Large parking garages could be equipped with chargers for each stall while people work. The conversion of large groups who could actually use the technology well would lessen the demand for gasoline and lower prices for those who still prefer ICEs, or have longer trips in mind. So again, YOU got it wrong yet again! I'm done trying to explain things to you, believe whatever you wish...............
 

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Reply: So you don't think that a government passing laws to require the change to electrical vehicles BEFORE they have the solutions for potential problems is legislative idiocy?
It would be... if there were laws to that effect. But there aren't and never will be, and believing that puts you pretty squarely in conspiracy camp.

There are a couple states that will require NEW vehicles in certain segments to become electric... 20 years from now. That doesn't mean you have to sell your ICE car and buy an EV. ICEs will be around forever, just like horses. No one is requiring that you buy one. If you want to keep driving your 75 Impala for the next 50 years, you can do that. This is no different than CARB and EPA making incrementally stricter emissions laws. When the EPA changed emissions laws for diesel vehicles in 2008, it didn't mean you had to trade in your 2006. When they added EGR valves in the 60s/70s, you didn't have to retrofit one on to your 55


Texas is just one example, but IT DID HAPPEN and you can't refute that fact. I'm merely asking you to consider what Texas would have been like at that point in time if everyone had EVs. It demonstrates that in life you have to expect that things like that will happen and you/the government should have a plan to deal with it. So tell us how much better things would have been in Texas with everyone having EVs during the Ice Storm. Tell us how much better New Orleans would have been during Katrina if everyone only had EVs.
Since you believe disasters are RARE, here is some info:

In October, the National Centers for Environmental Information – under the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration – created a list of 115 natural disasters responsible for at least $1 billion in damage in the United States between 2010 and 2019. Texas experienced the most billion-dollar natural disasters in the decade at 54, with Kansas, Oklahoma, Missouri and Illinois not far behind, according to the agency's associated map. Hawaii was the only state that did not experience a billion-dollar disaster in the decade, according to the map.

The Top Ten


10. Snowpocalypse in Southeast, January 2014

When:
Jan. 28-30, 2014
Cost: $2.4 billion
Ill-prepared for winter weather, Gulf Coast and Southeastern states from Louisiana to Virginia witnessed several inches of snow, ranging from 1 inch of snow in Pensacola, Florida, to 10 inches in Virginia Beach, according to NOAA. While only 2 inches fell in the Atlanta metro area, it caused tens of thousands of commuters to be gridlocked, with more than 1,500 accidents, 175 injuries and at least one death related to the road conditions, according to the Georgia State Patrol.
Note: Notice the part that says "tens of thousands gridlocked" and "1500 accidents"

4. Superstorm Sandy Strikes East Coast, 2012

When:
October 2012
Cost: $73.5 billion
Sandy brought a record storm surge on New York City; Sandy Hook, New Jersey; and Bridgeport, Connecticut. An area stretching from western North Carolina to Ohio to New England experienced high winds. More than 159 people were killed, and a peak of 8.6 million customers were without power. Hurricane Sandy merged with a developing nor'easter storm, causing severe damage with snow, wind and rain, as well as forcing the New York Stock Exchange to close for two consecutive days – a feat that hadn't occurred since a major winter storm in 1888, according to NOAA.
Note: 8.6 Million without power

1. Hurricane Maria Cripples Puerto Rico, 2017

When:
Sept. 19-21, 2017
Cost: $93.6 billion
Hitting Puerto Rico as a Category 4 hurricane, Maria's high winds severely impacted the island's transportation, agriculture, communication and energy infrastructure, according to NOAA. Its extreme rainfall of up to 37 inches also led to widespread flooding and mudslides. While the death toll remains unknown, researchers estimate Maria killed between 2,900 and 4,600 people, making it one of the U.S.'s deadliest storms, according to The Weather Channel. It also damaged or destroyed more than 300,000 homes.
Note: The US had to go in and completely rebuild PRs inadequate electrical power system and power shortages existed for months and months.

And this is just the major ones (Top 13) If you care to see them all, go to https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...natural-disasters-of-the-past-decade?slide=11


What happens when its just much smaller (but still devastating) storms and people are stranded in freezing weather? No heat in their homes and no vehicle to find shelter.

SO DON"T SAY THIS KIND OF STUFF DOESN"T HAPPEN OR THAT ITS A STRECH OF THE IMAGINATION THAT IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN........................and AGAIN.
All of it due to global warming. Sounds like a good argument for electric vehicles.

Please tell me their names. I must have missed that when I bought my Li-Ion tools. You lump everything into one basket and accuse ALL of them of being deficient. Personally, I love my inexpensive Li-Ion tools.
Ridgid for one: Full Lifetime Warranty | RIDGID Tools
Festool does as well, but only in certain countries.
Kobalt used to, and I have some that are, but they discontinued their lifetime warranty years ago.

You also need to know that the battery cells themselves almost never fail. When you get a bad battery that won't charge or hold a charge, it's the logic chip in the battery that fails, not the cells. I have Ridgid batteries from 2006 that still work just fine, and my job sees them used every single day. You're blaming the battery, when in reality, it's not. I had a 48v Kobalt cordless blower donated to the theater. (where I work). The charger died, so I took the battery apart and used the 18650-type cells to make a battery backup for camping. They're from about 2010, they sat uncharged for most of their life in the corner of a warehouse, and they still work great.



Again, you insult people and characterize them to fit your narrative. I have said that I have nothing against EVs and believe that they will serve a good purpose in society. I don't believe we are at the point where completely relying on one form of providing energy is a good idea. There are many things to consider and the problems haven't been addressed much less solved. I would like to see people who can use the electrical vehicles for short work commutes and in cities where many charging stations can be available.......do so. Large parking garages could be equipped with chargers for each stall while people work. The conversion of large groups who could actually use the technology well would lessen the demand for gasoline and lower prices for those who still prefer ICEs, or have longer trips in mind. So again, YOU got it wrong yet again! I'm done trying to explain things to you, believe whatever you wish...............
I'm sorry you took it personally, but it certainly wasn't intended. I'm just disagreeing and providing my counterpoint, but I can't be responsible for how it makes you feel.

Right now (to your point about not being ready for EVs), there are about 150,000 gas stations in the U.S. and about 80,000 charging stations. By 2024, the easily attainable goal is for an additional 200,000 charging stations. In three to four years, we will likely have twice as many charging stations as we do gas stations currently. Since we're already at the point where a 30-minute quick charge can get you as much as 85% charge in some cars, I'm really not as apocalyptically concerned as you are.
 

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No Other Express Warranty Applies

This Full Lifetime Warranty is the sole and exclusive warranty for RIDGID products. No employee, agent, dealer, or other person is authorized to alter this warranty or make any other warranty on behalf of the Ridge Tool Company.

Executing the RIDGID Lifetime Warranty

Ridge Tool Company offers a comprehensive lifetime warranty to support products purchased under the RIDGID Brand, excluding licensed goods.

RIDGID branded products are built with reliability, dependability and durability and are covered by a Full Lifetime Warranty against defects in materials or workmanship.

In the event that you have a problem with your RIDGID product due to a defect in materials or poor workmanship, we will attempt to remedy the problem in accordance with our printed warranty policy in a timely manner.

However, there’s added peace of mind with the RIDGID Full Lifetime Warranty. Should your tool ever malfunction from defects in workmanship or materials, we will repair or replace the tool free of charge.


DEFECTS IN MATERIALS OR WORKMANSHIP:

It is our experience that a product that fails prematurely due to a manufacturing defect in materials or workmanship, will generally do so very early in the products life cycle
,
often the first or second time the product is used. When returned for inspection, these products are generally found to still be in like new condition and show very little signs of use.

It is uncommon for a product that was manufactured with a defect, to survive under normal use for any extended period of time.

Products that are returned for warranty inspection after months or years of continuous reliable service are rarely found to be defective. The most common demand for service is the result of normal wear and tear issues, which are not considered to be a defect in materials or workmanship.



So, will a battery that fails after several years be considered as normal "wear and tear" and NOT defective?


Most of the reasonably respected manufacturers are selling good tools that last a long time in the hands of home hobbiests. My Kobalt tools have a 5 year warranty and the batteries are for 3 years. If any of my tools fail, I'll toss em and buy another rather than deal with the hassle. If a battery fails, I'll look at my receipt. After having many Craftsman and some DeWalt tools, I learned to take a silver color Sharpie permanent marker and write the purchase date on them. So far I have had excellent service with Kobalt tools.
 

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went to dinner last night in a Tesla Plaid. hard to describe the feeling of brutal acceleration, no noise but is capable of a 9.0 second 1/4 mile. with the AC on.
 

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Tesla Plaid Price: Expected price $80,000

Tesla Plaid Range: 390 miles (and you know you have to refill ANY vehicle before its empty) If you only dischage 80% then its 312 miles (that leaves 20%)

Tesla Plaid recharge: 27 minutes to reach an 80% if you start charge at 20% (Thats "IF " you can find a Supercharging Station) So if you start at 80% and recharge again at 20% you now can only travel 234 miles before needing either another 80% recharge /27 minutes OR a full recharge at a refueling station. Now the question becomes, do you leave your $80,000 vehicle at the charging station for a full charge and walk to the nearest motel or wait for a full recharge the next morning or do an 80% charge multiple times on the second day of your trip?



Quote:
Table of contents
Tesla charging methods
In order to truly understand how long it may or may not take to charge your Tesla, we want to start with a brief course on the different charging levels and how they differ. This is a huge factor relating to the time it will take to charge your EV, regardless of whether it is, in fact, a Tesla or not.

Level 1 AC Charging
Imagine Level 1 as the universal charging option. If there is a standard wall socket nearby, you will be able to charge your Tesla with that. With that said, 120V is the bare minimum amount of juice you can pull into your EV. So if you’re wondering how long it would take to charge your 2021 Tesla Long Range Model 3, you’re looking at a matter of days, not hours. Not ideal.

Level 2 AC Charging
Level 2 chargers are the most common type found at third-party public charging stations, although DC fast chargers continue to expand their presence (more of them in a minute). At home, 240V plugs usually offer around 40 amps but can go as high as 80 and are usually more specifically placed compared to standard 120V outlets.

Think of this charger as the equivalent to your dryer or other large appliance. Tesla suggests owners install a Level 2 charger in their home or garage if they can. This is fairly easy for an electrician or specialist to come and install.

At Level 2, you’re looking at much quicker speeds compared to Level 1. We’re talking hours, not days.

Tesla Supercharger (DC Fast Charging)
The Tesla Supercharger exists as a combined network of proprietary charging stations developed and implemented by Tesla. As a result, the automaker doesn’t have to rely on third-party charging networks like most automakers producing electric vehicles currently do. Although, some third-party chargers do offer an adapter plug for Tesla EVs.

These Level 3 chargers abandon the alternating current (AC) methods above to mainline power directly. While they require a lot more power from the grid (480+ volts and 100+ amps), their output is truly “super.”

Ok, sounds fancy, but how long do Superchargers take to charge a Tesla? Currently, most Tesla Superchargers can now recharge up to 200 miles of range in just 15 minutes, depending on the rate of charge. These DC charging speeds range from 90 kW to 250 kW, depending on which Supercharger station you’re at.

When you’re in the Tesla app or in your vehicle itself, you can search for nearby Supercharger stations, which can tell you what stalls are available and what their current output is. Navigation can help too. Tesla’s built-in trip planner is designed to automatically route you through Superchargers on the way to your destination.
(Edit Note: So how much delay and planning will that add to your vacation trip ?)

For more information on Tesla Superchargers, we’ve put together an extensive guide here.

How long to charge a Tesla?
To recap, a lot of factors are in play when figuring out precisely how long it may take to charge your shiny Tesla. Battery capacity, charging method, and available power output all have their say in how quickly you can unplug and get back on the open road.

Here’s a breakdown of the charging methods and approximately how long each take to fully charge a Tesla from being completely dead:

  • Level 1 AC (120V outlet at home): 20-40 hours
  • AC Level 2 (Third party chargers/Tesla chargers/Tesla home charger): 8-12 hours
  • Level 3 DCFC (Tesla Supercharger): 15-25 minutes
As you may have guessed by now, Tesla’s Supercharger network is the way to go, especially in a pinch. However, due to their massive direct current (DC), Superchargers are not recommended for daily charging.

They are, instead, in place to provide a quick charge for drivers on the go or for those on longer road trips. Tesla recommends Level 2 charging at home if possible.

Conclusion
Hopefully, you now have a better understanding of the many factors that control how long it takes to charge a Tesla. Whether it’s a Model Y Long Range or the Model S Plaid, you should have a better idea of what to prioritize as you charge your Tesla depending on how much time you have, where you are, and where you inevitably need to be.

(Copied from: How long does it take to charge a Tesla? )



I have no argument for their blinding speed though........
 

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I have a 125kw charging station at a gas station less then a mile away.

$3.60 for 25mins(full charge)

I work 3 days a week and could easily charge off 110 if needed.

This is a charge point charging station. There are more charging stations available then you think. That navagation thing is an advertising thing at this point. You can charge while eating lunch or taking a brake on a long trip. Most of us want to get out of a car after 5 hours driving straight anyway.

I bet you have several stations within 20 miles of your home. With more to come. While driving on a long trip you can easily find one.

 

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$80K ????
This guy paid $145k.

Reply: Apparently that was a projected price and they didn't meet expectations..........or he ordered a lot of options. :)

I have a 125kw charging station at a gas station less then a mile away.

$3.60 for 25mins(full charge)


Reply: That seems contradictory to what Tesla is saying. Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the "Supercharge" was only designed to charge to 80% and the battery is supposed to be slow charged the last 20% to prevent damage and increase battery life. Maybe I'm missing something here. Still, you have to spend 1/2 hour there . Your situation is more unique than most people who work for a living and would need to charge more often. Its going to depend a whole lot on how far a person has to commute each day. Lots of people stop at the local "Quick Stop" either on their way to work or on the way home from work and fill their tanks. If this happens with electric cars, you could have "peak" times and no plug in available........plus, who wants to get up a half hour earlier?




I work 3 days a week and could easily charge off 110 if needed.

Reply: Again, your situation is somewhat unique. In the normal course of things, most people are going to need to have a 220V outlet installed by an electrician. Also an 220 extension cord will need to be purchased. I can see $500 or more to have an electrician do it. Many older homes may not be equipped for the additional electrical requirements either. I know my mothers house which was built in the 60s only had a 60 amp panel, and there are lots of houses still around just like it.


The 110 charging is more battery friendly, but if someone has a long commute they are not going to keep up via 110 Volts. My son commutes about 60miles each way each day. Electric would be great for him if it wasn't such a hassle. He has to be able to get to work......he works for the local power company.

Cerial:
This is a charge point charging station. There are more charging stations available then you think. That navagation thing is an advertising thing at this point. You can charge while eating lunch or taking a brake on a long trip. Most of us want to get out of a car after 5 hours driving straight anyway.

Reply:
What you are not considering is that if everyone develops the natural tendency to charge their vehicle on the way to work, on the way home, or while at lunch.........it will be difficult to get a plug. Also, most people only get 1/2 hour for lunch so charging time would be minimal.

Yes after five hours of driving most of us are ready to get out of our vehicles. 5hrs/70mph= 350 miles When going on vacation to Florida I can guarantee I drive more than 350 miles a day. Driving from where I live in Ky to Jacksonville Fl is 750 miles. If I possibly could average 70mph it would take 10.5hrs I have done that in one day. When my son returned from the military we towed an enclosed trailer with his diesel. Nearly a 20,000 lb set up. We weighed it at the truck station at our exit. It was an 1800 mile drive and we did it in 2 1/2 days. We did not drive 70 mph but stayed around 60 due to concern for the trailers tires. Loooong days! Its common place for people taking vacations to drive extended distances each day.


Cerial:
I bet you have several stations within 20 miles of your home. With more to come. While driving on a long trip you can easily find one.


Reply: They probably have one or more within a couple miles of me as I live about two miles from an exit. I also have multiple 220 outlets at my home and in my shop because I have some machiney and some welders and compressors. I even have a couple of long 220 extension cords that I use with my welders. Charging an electric vehicle at my home would be no problem for me or even my son and his home shop. I'm just saying that while I AGREE WITH YOU GUYS that electric cars can provide a lot of benefits in certain situations, I don't think some of the costs and inconvenience are viable for everyone at this point. Besides, I'm old school.......I like the rumble of an exhaust.:)
 

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A simple tax bill could be introduced to give incentives for employers to have 110 charging stations parking lots.

Right now several simply allow this for free to the employee. Or at the normal rate with fast charging stations.

If your at your workplace for 8 to 12 hours that could recoup a charge for a 60 mile one way trip.


An EV and ICE will be running side by side for years. The automakers have been dragging their butts on this and DO need a push.

I hate the idea of a ICE/Electric hybrid where both those units power the car. Big ICE motor and Big electric battery pack with tons of potential failures. Your better off just having ICE.




A small ICE motor used solely as a generatior to charge a 100% Electric powered car is what is needed RIGHT NOW. .

I already linked the small rotary in this thread. The thing is the size of a 12volt battery, very efficient, has very few potential failure points, and could easily charge a battery pack.

This would let you do things like drive cross country and stop anywhere you feel like along the way to eat lunch while that small ICE motor was charging your battery pack.

This would get you mileage above 60mpg easily.

In your traffic jam situation those EV could simply be put in park and the gas generatior would kick on after a few minutes charging the battery pack. Ready to go? Put it in drive the gas engine shuts down and the electric motor moves the car another 20 feet. Your welcome California.

I actually don't care about new EV's and dont ever see owning a Tesla because I am a strong "Right To Repair" supporter and it is no secret that Tesla as well as others are making it difficult or refusing/charging increased rates for over the counter parts.

I want more EV's on the road because it will mean more parts. More parts will mean the price of converting a classic ride comes down.

Right now your talking $10,000 as a good number to convert. You may swing $5000 either way depending on the conversion and the amount of work/innovation you do. But even at $5000 a LS swap still makes more sense.

As more electric motors hit the roads (and each other) the price of conversions will be cut.

If I could convert a 300hp v8 to all electric(with small gas gen) for $3000 vs replacing that 300hp engine for the same price. It would not be a hard choice.

But until those parts are in the yards the prices to convert and EV's in general are just to much. So I will be driving ICE for the next 5 to 10 years. Not because I think one is better. But because it is just cheaper(initally) and more convenient to drive ICE at this point.

The sooner EV's hit the roads the sooner we can start hotrodding them dropping them in cars that have a more "hot rod" look.

I like things reliable and simple. When I compare a all electric EV(with small gas gen) to a ICE there is question which is more failure prone.
 

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A simple tax bill could be introduced to give incentives for employers to have 110 charging stations parking lots.

Right now several simply allow this for free to the employee. Or at the normal rate with fast charging stations.

If your at your workplace for 8 to 12 hours that could recoup a charge for a 60 mile one way trip.


An EV and ICE will be running side by side for years. The automakers have been dragging their butts on this and DO need a push.

I hate the idea of a ICE/Electric hybrid where both those units power the car. Big ICE motor and Big electric battery pack with tons of potential failures. Your better off just having ICE.




A small ICE motor used solely as a generatior to charge a 100% Electric powered car is what is needed RIGHT NOW. .

I already linked the small rotary in this thread. The thing is the size of a 12volt battery, very efficient, has very few potential failure points, and could easily charge a battery pack.

This would let you do things like drive cross country and stop anywhere you feel like along the way to eat lunch while that small ICE motor was charging your battery pack.

This would get you mileage above 60mpg easily.

In your traffic jam situation those EV could simply be put in park and the gas generatior would kick on after a few minutes charging the battery pack. Ready to go? Put it in drive the gas engine shuts down and the electric motor moves the car another 20 feet. Your welcome California.

I actually don't care about new EV's and dont ever see owning a Tesla because I am a strong "Right To Repair" supporter and it is no secret that Tesla as well as others are making it difficult or refusing/charging increased rates for over the counter parts.

I want more EV's on the road because it will mean more parts. More parts will mean the price of converting a classic ride comes down.

Right now your talking $10,000 as a good number to convert. You may swing $5000 either way depending on the conversion and the amount of work/innovation you do. But even at $5000 a LS swap still makes more sense.

As more electric motors hit the roads (and each other) the price of conversions will be cut.

If I could convert a 300hp v8 to all electric(with small gas gen) for $3000 vs replacing that 300hp engine for the same price. It would not be a hard choice.

But until those parts are in the yards the prices to convert and EV's in general are just to much. So I will be driving ICE for the next 5 to 10 years. Not because I think one is better. But because it is just cheaper(initally) and more convenient to drive ICE at this point.

The sooner EV's hit the roads the sooner we can start hotrodding them dropping them in cars that have a more "hot rod" look.

I like things reliable and simple. When I compare a all electric EV(with small gas gen) to a ICE there is question which is more failure prone.
Komatsu dump trucks use electric drive with a diesel powered generator. They have a capacitor more than a battery, so they can only store up enough electricity for relatively short bursts of extra power if needed. They figure the efficiency of converting to electric is comparable to the efficiency of a powershift transmission (like the Caterpillar competition) with instantaneous torque as a result.
 

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Komatsu dump trucks use electric drive with a diesel powered generator. They have a capacitor more than a battery, so they can only store up enough electricity for relatively short bursts of extra power if needed. They figure the efficiency of converting to electric is comparable to the efficiency of a powershift transmission (like the Caterpillar competition) with instantaneous torque as a result.
Oh I love hydraulic hybrids. They are better suited to heavy rides then electric currently.





I have seen(they have it non public currently) a video where a hydraulic hybrid system was built for a go cart making it as light as possible. The motor was able to run at a steady rate. But the acceleration although brief was stupid fast.

The downsides to these systems is they (often) require a pump and motor( these can be one unit) as well as the regenerative breaking being before the differential requiring a locked diff or having one side potentially "pulling" while regenerating.

Now 2(or more) pump/motors(in one unit) could be used to counter this having one power/regenerative unit control each rear(potentially all) wheels.

While this at the wheel "motor" setup might sound complicated the fluid dynamics are rather simple and it is just a ton of valves(and very simple electronics) all working when they need to. Your able to use a smaller motor running at a more efficient rate to provide the acceleration. You obviously loose the transmission and it allows for more packaging flexibility. You still have to mount the accumulator and resivior tanks. But those can be mounted in various ways(like vertically) or be placed in areas where weight is needed for better weight distribution.

Once again it is better suited to frequent stop and go rides as the motor required to drive the heavy thing without the hydraulic regeneration would still need to be a large size and would not have multible gears to aid with torque multiplication going UP say a two mile long grade if used in long distance travel.
 

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Well, Today is Aug 30 and Hurricane IDA just struck New Orleans (remember Katrina too). The news just said that the entire city of New Orleans is without electrical power. Another report says 1 MILLION people without power. True or not, I can see that anyone with an ALL electric vehicle is going to find the next few days very problematic. The everyday world we live in is not a Utopia.
 

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Well, Today is Aug 30 and Hurricane IDA just struck New Orleans (remember Katrina too). The news just said that the entire city of New Orleans is without electrical power. Another report says 1 MILLION people without power. True or not, I can see that anyone with an ALL electric vehicle is going to find the next few days very problematic. The everyday world we live in is not a Utopia.
And without power, how do gas pumps work?
 

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Well, Today is Aug 30 and Hurricane IDA just struck New Orleans (remember Katrina too). The news just said that the entire city of New Orleans is without electrical power. Another report says 1 MILLION people without power. True or not, I can see that anyone with an ALL electric vehicle is going to find the next few days very problematic. The everyday world we live in is not a Utopia.
I doubt a fair portion of the roads are even drivable with anything less than a truck or Jeep anyway. Plus, assuming you had a full charge in preparation for the Hurricane, 250-300 mi can get you quite a few trips to the grocery store. I despise EV's, but don't knock them for no reason.
 

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Nobody is pumping gas today in and around New Orleans for the same reason nobody is charging their EV. We are grid dependent for everything needed to sustain life. Soon Reno won’t either as the Calder fire moves in cutting off the grid. I was camping Donner Pass back in 1960 when they had a big fire, power was cut by the fire and there was no fuel for ICE vehicles. The saving grace for those with less than a full tank is you can pretty much coast from Donner Summit to Sacramento, your can’t do that in Mississippi River delta country.

By the time EVs could take over as general vehicular transportation the costal south will be under sea level so their loss of grid power in hurricanes will be a moot point..

As far as EMP events go my pacemaker won’t survive so speaking for myself and millions of others that hang to life on these and other life sustaining implant devices whether the EV runs or not after an EMP event is once again a moot point. But I do keep a points distributor for my Gen I powered S15 as a contingency, try that on your Gen III motor.

Bogie
 

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Most newer and several homes(and businesses) in general have or have considered a whole house generatior(or backup battery pack if they have alternatives in place).
If the gasoline pumps go out the natural gas keeps the power on to keep that EV "topped off" where that ICE may only have 1/4 tank.


Now where ICE excels is fording height. Lowering the center gravity has downsides.

But I also would not recommend going through any amount of water over a foot(moving slow) in any modern car or truck because the tires can float then your loosing control despite intake height.

So even this downside of a EV is a justified one to have the benifits of lower centered gravity.




So at this point any apocalypse thing has been covered. Any modern EV is going to just as well as a modern ICE ride.

The grid will meet the demand

Gas will still be here long past our lifetimes

I never been a "my brand is the best" kind of person. Each brand does some things good and some thing bad.

ICE does some things better then electric and some things worse. No thing is going to be perfect for everyone. There will always be compromises to be made.

If someone thinks a 60's car with points is the best thing on the world and anything built after that it junk thats an opinion. You can show examples of why thats not true. But if they have there mind made up then its made up.

If you think EV's are not for you then I respect that. I know I dont have the self control to ride a motorcycle. So I dont have a motorcycle license to avoid me driving them.

That does not make me try to pass a law saying everyone should be inside a caged structure on the road.

Having the freedom to choose for yourself is something I will always support. I may not agree with your choice personally. But I respect that that choice is yours not mine.

Life is all about choices. Save the money or spend it, work the extra hours or take the time off, drive a modified hotrod or a stock ride.

If someone wants to drive a EV thats a choice. There are more detrimental things beyond our control (due to a series of choices) to care about other peoples choices.
 
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