[Nightfire]

Hello,
can anyone tell me how long a usual t-bucket frame is. If possible I'd also like the measure of the width of the frame from outher rail to outer rail.
If anyone knows how long a t-bucket body is (without turtle deck or pickup bed) and how far back it mounts on the frame (distance from front of frame to where the body begins to mount).

One last question while I'm at it, how easy is it to attach a straight axel of a Chevy Van or Truck to either an S10 frame or a LUV frame?



Thanks so much


Mike

 

[Max Keith]

T- bucket

Contact Speedway Motors in Lincoln, Neb. as they specialize in building all stages of frames for T's from 1915-1927.

speedwaymotors.com is the web link.

 

[Nightfire]

Thanks, will check out their website. Do you know if they're frames are the same length as the original Ford ones?



Mike

 

[Max Keith]

T-buckets

To the best of my knowledge, the are built to origional length and widths etc. They have both stock type and Z-ed frames. The big difference is, they are made with box tubing instead of C channel.

 

[[email protected]]

www.wescotsauto.com

 

[Nightfire]

Ok thanks guys.

Hey Bob the link doesnt seem to work for me





Mike

EDIT:

I figured out the right website and downloaded their frame specs which can be viewed at here http://www.wescottsauto.com/pdf2/FR-1.pdf
I'll take a while to show up. Thanks a lot BOBCRMAN

Looks like the overall length is 101.5 inches and width I cant tell from the graph, can anyone find it??

Also does anyone know how hard it would be to mount the front straight axel of an older Chevy truck to a modern mini-truck chasis? Like an S10 or a Chevy LUV? I know the old steering and suspension would have to go and a spring perch would have to welded on.






Mike

 

[Max Keith]

T-bucket

The best figures I can come up with are firewall width, which would be the outside measurement of the frame at that point.

23-25 T = 26 1/2"
26-27 ^ = 29"
Those are a pretty straight railed frame. I think that measurement should be the same front to rear.
At any rate, you couldnt go wrong by building your frame with parallel rails.

 

[Nightfire]

Thanks:thumbup:

I'm not building a frame, I'm just looking to get the measurements so I can see if a S10 chasis would be narrow enough and long enough. Or any other minitruck that's small enough will do. Then I'll look for a straight axel of an old chevy van and see if I can make it fit. Keep leafs in the back but mount the axel over the leafs not under. Even take a leaf out.
Basically whatever is narrower than 29 inches should do. I'd rather have it narrower than wider.
Thanks a lot,




Mike

 

[Max Keith]

YW

YW

Way back when, guys used to put T bodies on A and B chassis for dirt track racing, even though the frames were wider.

You might also consider using a front axle out of an early 60's Econoline Ford van as well.

 

[Nightfire]

Sorry for the dumb question, but what does YW stand for?

Lets say I were to find a frame that would suit my needs, 101 inches long and 26 inch width. If I were to go to a junkyard and find a straight axel out of a Econoline, that one would be mounted with 2 parralel leafs though right? But if I wanted the look of a T, I'd have to mount a spring across my frame with a spring perch and attach it so that the axel would be centered. Would this give me any bump steer or would I have to add 4 bars to make it ride nice. Also do you need shock or can you just ride on the horizontal mounted spring?
I've heard people talking about using an axel of an econoline and "reverse" or "flip" it. What does this mean??




Thanks,


Mike

 

[Max Keith]

T-bucket

The best way to go, short of going with coil overs, is to mount coil spring buckets on the front of your T frame, use coils for the front axle, with either a 4 link set up or, Wishbones, a panard bar, and a cross link steering from the steering box to a tiller arm on the rt spindle. Going with cross link steering does a lot to eliminate bump steer, and the 4 link is the better link setup over wishbones, however, wishbones are a more traditional setup.
Mounting the axle in front of the frame perch is probably the better setup, which will allow you to mount your spring buckets in parallel with the front crossmember rather than above or behind it. Going this route will also allow you to drop your front end lower with out having to use a dropped axle or Z the front end of the frame. Mounting the axle to coil springs would be a simple matter of fabricating a pad to bolt to the existing parallel leaf locations on the axle, with them mounted behind the axle. You could run your shocks up inside the springs, making a fairly neat package out of it.

The panard bar could be mounted between the sring buckets on the frame and axle, reducing the angularity between the two mounting points, from front to rear.
This would also give you about 2 inches more wheel base, in effect moving more weight to the rear.
Other benefits are that you would have a completely open engine bay, with out anything going under the front of your engine.
You could mount your radiator either on top of or behind the front crossmember as well, without any incumberances.
The spring buckets on the frame would also make good perches for your headlites.

 

[Nightfire]

Max Keith, again thanks for the info. Really helpfull.

I do have some more questions though, as you can tell I'm a total beginner so some of the terms I'm not to sure what they mean.

Now, I'm like the traditional look on rods and therefor I wouldnt like to have shocks in the front. I'd kinda want it to look like this

From what I can tell the spring perch is attached to the frame, and holds a vertical leaf spring that attaches to the axel. There's hairpin rods (or whatever the 2 rods are called that go to the axel and attach to one pivot point on the frame)

From what I can tell there are no shocks. I'd rather not use shocks since they are $$$. If I actually begin this project it will be a VERY low buck build.

Same with this one

Now I'm not gonna buy a T-bucket frame or make one. The point is to find a very cheap pickup truck perferably with a V8. I hope the truck will have a straight front axel already. Then I'll have to convert from parralel leaf springs to one vertical to get "the look". Also to lower it in the front, cant I just weld the spring perch a considerabel amount higher than the frame? I'd keep the rear leafs and mount the axel over the leafs (not under) and dearch the springs a bit.
The last thing would be to add some radius rods or hairpins to eliminate bumpsteer.

Would that be safe? I'd have to adjust the ackerman angle of course and get the camber right.

sorry for the newb questions,



Mike

 

[Max Keith]

T-bucket

Personally I dont think that you will find a pickup truck with a straight axle under it, at least not anything in production since the early 60's, and if you find one in good enough condition to do that kind of work on, you are better off to just get a bare aftermarket frame, a lot cheaper, and go from there.
As for shocks, they are on there. It appears that what they have are the old friction type shocks, rather than modern hydraulics.
Trust me, you dont want to ride around in a vehicle that doesnt have shocks on it. You will either be beaten to death by the ride, or you could suddenly find yourself involuntarily exited from the vehicle, TOTALLY without your consent.
Having a vehicle without shocks,especially on the street is a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If you check the Speedway Motors web site, you will find fabricated chassis in about any state of construction you desire.

Taking a pickup frame, most likely having to narrow it a bunch, then to modify the front and rear suspension to go along with the narrowed frame, is a long and tedious, as well as expensive proprosition.

If you were to find a pickup with an I-beam front axle under it, you would probably be better off building and customizing it, rather than chopping up the frame.

You can get a good boxed frame for your T-bucket buildup from Speedway for about $600. You will pay probably more than that just to get an old truck to tear down and chop up.

Go to their web site and check out what they have, even better go to the web site and order one of their street catalogues.
Only about $5 and then you have a good and reletively reasonable priced place to get your other parts you will need for your beast.

You can get a complete frame with Transverse leaf front end, with the hairpin links etc for about $1500.

Since this would be considered a new construction vehicle, you will probably have to have it inspected before you can get a title and plates for it.

Contact your local RCMP, or Province Police, about construction codes. Explain to them what you are up to, and you need to know what is required to make the vehicle legal for street use.

The codes will tell you such things as the minimum and maximum distance off the road bed your headlights must be, taillights, turnsignals, Fenders (most places require them on new construction vehicles), bumper heights and requirements.

The codes will even tell you what the minimum turning radius of the vehicle must be.

There are other issues like windshield wipers, possibly defrosters, whether the vehicle, as a roadster has to have functional doors.

There are a lot of issues and requirements that have to be met when building a vehicle in this manner.

I dont mean to throw cold water on your endeavor. I wholeheartedly support your venture. I would just hate to see you put a bunch of money and time into a vehicle, only to be told you cant run it one th street.
That would be heartbreaking.
One other thing, do you have someone with a lot of automotive experience to help you with this project? Without some guidence, you could get in a jam real quick.

Im wanting to build a T-roadster, myself, someday. All it takes is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4.

Ive got experience fabricating stock car chassis and have been messing with cars for 40+ yrs. Building a basic frame is one of the few things I wont tackle.

 

[Nightfire]

Allright, thanks for the explanation.

I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to run the car fenderless in my province. Here are some of the rules I have to follow

http://www.msra.mb.ca/html/mb_regs.html


They're pretty strict, so rodding here aint easy.

I did check out all the packages from both Speedway and Total Performance and they're all too much $$$. The mission is to only build the whole rod for about 2.5K.

Since I just found out I need fenders I dont really need to have the traditional style setup in the front. I dont even have to go with an I-beam axel since that will be covered with fenders right.

So I could get any 1/2 ton Ford or Chevy Truck with a V8, strip the cab and bed and everything. Then mount the T body on it and the fenders will cover the shock towers. For the bed just make one out of wood.

This might all be impossible but I'd REALLY like to build a rod for under 2.5K. And yes I do have one person with good mechanical background that could help me.

Thanks,


Mike

 

[Hotrod Hirning]

Here's mine, built at home in the garage, no outside help. Used 1 1/2"X 3" tubing for frame. Not hard if you know how to weld. Speedway frontend. SBF with toploader and 4:11 8" rearend.

 

[Max Keith]

Hotrod Hirning

Hotrod, youre a man after my own heart. Just about the same thing Im wanting to put together.

 

[THADD]

I have to go with Hotrod and Max on this subject...
First, there is no such thing as a "good riding" T...They are light and the weight bias is wrong. They are usually loud and noisy, plus the wind will beat you up.
Second, don't try to mickey mouse this thing. There are decades of science that have gone into building these things...thats why they all look similar. If you go to a cruise and see one that doesn't have a cross spring and a dropped axle up front, look at the rest of the car..I guarantee that it will be cobbled up.
The last one that I built had a full on tube frame, a suicide perch with the steering tie rod ahead of the axle, a corvair reversed steering box and an 8" Ford rear mounted on two coil overs with hairpin style radius rods, and panhard rods on both ends. I ran a 31" tall 12" wide tire on the rear and 155X15's on the front...It was not a corner carver, but it was quick.
I had a metal body with a real working door...Really great for a guy who loves his pasta and Budweiser..I ran a 331 with a TH350 and a 3.50:1 rear...Mine weighed less than 1500 pounds, which is really light for a car with an iron engine and an automatic. California law states that all cars over 1500 pounds must have fenders, so I carried the weight certificate with me all of the time, but all I got from the law was thumbs up
I see body and frame combos for sale all of the time around here with suspension for 5 or 6 hundred dollars...some even have radiators and stuff like windshields.
If you are going to build a T, it would make so much more sense to buy the bones already engineered and go from there.
FWIW, California Custom Roadsters in Orange county sells plans for a T for about $20..It ain't rocket science, but these things have to be solid, or they are super dangerous...
If I can get my new high dollar Christmas present scanner to work, I'll post a pic of my T...

I just read your Manitoba special vehicle pages...Here is what I did in Calif where we have Special Construction Vehicle laws.

Special Construction looked alot like the Manitoba regs, so I went to DMV and tried to register it as a 1921 Ford. They had me take the car to the CHP for inspection, and they ended up approving it as a '21 Ford, so I didn't have to jump through all of the hoops about bumpers, fenders, turn signals, etc...

I suggest that you find someone in your area that has experience with real hot rods and find out what their take on this is b efore you spend a lot of time and money only to didcover that what you really have is garden art..

If you look at the pics of the two roadsters that you posted, you will notice that the bodies have different lines. The red one is a 1921-25 body, usually advertised as a 1923. The other one is an early body, usually advertised as a 1915. The later body has a bit more room, but many think that the earlier body with the big kick up in the rear is prettier.
Some fiberglass bodies have been made a scosch wider and 4" longer, which really adds to the comfort factor. It is an easy matter to make the frames longer which allows for a longer wheel base that takes some chop out of the ride..it also allows for an engine bigger than a small block.
FWIW, I have a friend who has a '15 with a Toyota V-6 in his and another friend with a Model B motor with a Crager overhead in his, and both are really quick. It doesn't take much to move 1600 pounds around !!!

 

[dav8427]

t-bucket

hello again.
speaking of t-bucket, if your are just starting, i just happen to know where there is a real nice 35-40 dodge cowl.
it looks like it came from a commercial truck, (milk truck,woody school bus etc.) gauges and all w/steering column and wheel.

doug

 

[dinger]

Thadd gives some great advice. The tbucket I own has a 283, built to the gills, powerglde, 55 chev wagon rearend. Fiberglass body that I wish was another foot longer. These cars ride like lumberwagons but still can be a blast for the beginner. DON'T skimp on safety, I've had the crap scared out of me more than once. Parts are reasonable for a build. Dan

 

[Nightfire]

Thanks a lot guys for all the info, it seems that building a t-bucket is WAY too much than I can handle. While knowing that I can buy kits everywhere for 6k, that's about 4k over my budget. I know it's crazy, 2k doesnt get you anything, but I can try.
I'm gonna lay back on this project for now unless I find a really good donor chasis.


thanks,



Mike