[ssanto]

I purchased a new T5 input shaft and cluster gear a couple weeks ago. I've got it all back together but I noticed that the input shaft doesn't line up with the gear on the cluster. All the other gears are lining up perfectly except the gear from the input shaft.

When I take out the flat roller bearing between the input shaft and 3rd gear, then it lines up but clearly that's not right also.

See the attached picture. I have the tail housing and input shaft bearing retainer on with the correct pre-load on the input shaft. You can see how the gear on the cluster overhangs the input shaft gear.

Any thoughts?


Thanks!

 

[cerial]

Compare the old input shaft to the new
Compare the old bearing/race to the new

Input shaft shim kit
or other shim kit
or you might have left out a shim/had a shim worn down and installed during the rebuild

Really would help if we knew what year, and what has been done to the T5.

Mixing parts inside the case is not that uncommon which leads to the need for shims when general parts are placed next to something that has been modified off stock specifications.

 

[ssanto]

Compare the old input shaft to the new
Compare the old bearing/race to the new

Input shaft shim kit
or other shim kit
or you might have left out a shim/had a shim worn down and installed during the rebuild

Really would help if we knew what year, and what has been done to the T5.

Mixing parts inside the case is not that uncommon which leads to the need for shims when general parts are placed next to something that has been modified off stock specifications.

It is a world class T5 out of a 88-92 Camaro. Everything looks the same as the old input shaft and the old one lines up just the same way. The transmission was gone through once by someone else years ago and it already had a (used) aftermarket input shaft.

The 3/4 slider hub is all the way down against the stop on the mainshaft against 3rd gear. And the only thing between the hub and the input shaft is the flat roller bearing and the thrust race that goes between it and the 3/4 slider hub. To get the input shaft to line up on the main gear, I need to bring it in further into the main shaft... but there is nothing I can remove to do that other than the flat roller bearing or its thrust race.

Just wondering if this was by design... I don't see how it could go together any other way. Other than machining some of the face of the 3/4 slider hub down, I don't see a way to get it to line up perfectly.

 

[big gear head]

It looks to me like the front edge of the gears are lined up, and it's only the rear edge that's not lined up. If the gear on the cluster is thicker than the gear on the input then this could be the case. If the front edge is lined up then the whole input gear is in contact and I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[ssanto]

The gears are the same width and the input gear overhangs a bit in the front.

Here is a picture from the gear that came out of the transmission... you can see the wear that shows the part of the gear that never contacted the cluster. This is how the transmission was when I got it.. but not sure why it was this way. The old one was an aftermarket input shaft so the trans was gone through before at some point.

 

[ssanto]

OK. I think the crisis has been averted. I found other pictures of T5's on the internet that show the same wear pattern on the input shaft gear caused by it not lining up exactly with the cluster gear. See the attached pictures where the tips of the input shaft gear are still black due to them not meshing with the cluster. I guess this is just a normal thing. Weird.

 

[big gear head]

In that case I would want to correct it some way if it was mine.

 

[cerial]

Everything moves and spins?
You have no binding?
How is the endplay?
It is possible to install a few parts backwards during assembly which will make a offset. Or just have the wrong thickness of shim.
Even could have sunk the puck or missed the puck spacer on the lower shaft. Generally your going to need 2 bigger then normal shims on the back when this happens to eliminate endplay which is a giveaway you have the bearing or spacer against the bearing is wrong.

 

[ssanto]

Everything moves and spins?
You have no binding?
How is the endplay?
It is possible to install a few parts backwards during assembly which will make a offset. Or just have the wrong thickness of shim.
Even could have sunk the puck or missed the puck spacer on the lower shaft. Generally your going to need 2 bigger then normal shims on the back when this happens to eliminate endplay which is a giveaway you have the bearing or spacer against the bearing is wrong.

Yeah it all moves and feels OK. Just that one input gear not lining up exactly. But if I'm seeing pictures of others that had it that way then maybe its not such a huge deal.

There's the sandwich that goes:
Input shaft -> Flat roller bearing -> thrust washer -> 3/4 hub -> 3rd gear

... and something in that is causing the input shaft to not go far enough into the case of the transmission. Like the input shaft isn't moving enough towards 3rd gear. The only thing that is stopping it is the face of the inside of the input shaft going against the flat roller bearing. I can't take anything out of that stack of parts so it seems to be just how it is.

The 3rd gear is spot on in the right spot with how it lines up with the cluster (as well as 2nd and 1st).

What also makes me think this is just how it is... the spacing between the hub and the synchro teeth on 3rd gear is exactly the same as the spacing between the hub and the synchro teeth on the input shaft. So if I were to move the hub closer to 3rd gear, then things wouldn't be symmetrical on the 3/4 synchro assembly. And if I moved the input shaft closer to the hub, then same thing it wouldn't be symmetrical.

 

[cerial]

Run it.
You could tear it down and rebuild it to see if you missed something.
But if it is all moving and sliding good then it should be good.

Next clutch you do I would pop the top and inspect the input mesh and synchros checking for any binding at that point.

 

[big gear head]

If it's possible to get them lined up then it will be stronger. If only a portion of the teeth are lining up then you effectively have a narrower gear, which is not as strong.

 

[ssanto]

I e-mailed Paul Cangialosi (author of High Performance Manual Transmissions and numerous YouTube videos) about this. He confirmed that the input shaft overlapping the cluster gear is a typical thing for T5's.

I just wanted to add that to this thread in case someone in the future runs into the same issue and finds this!