i am available to a tpi fuel injection system. I dont know how hard it is to install the wiring harness, let alone taking it out of the camaro that its in. The tpi is out, all i need is the harness... is it hard to install? any help? thanks
No, its not hard to install however cutting out all the ends you need will be difficult. It is possible and is done fairly often but you'd be miles ahead to get an aftermarket harness (readily available from a variety of companes).
Most of the harness goes to the various sensors and units on the engine itself. There are a few that go to other components such as the fuel pump, battery power, and grounds.
Having setup up a TPI both ways (stock harness vs. aftermarket) I can tell you it is sooo much easier with an aftermarkt. The aftermarket harness I installed alone in about 30 mins whereas the stock unit took two people 4+ hours as we were always chasing down unlabled or miscolored wires.
There are a few other things that will need to be done to the engine and car itself.
What sort of car is this going in? Do you have the entire TPI engine or just the induction setup?
I'll wait until you post more info before providing more instructions as it will save time knowing further details.
its going into a 1986 buick regal limited. So you guys are saying that i can just leave the stock wiring harness in the camaro? and not even worry about it? and i can just buy a new wiring harness from painless? Do i need to get the computers out fo the camaro though?? Let me know what i have to salvage out of the camaro.
including the computer and the boxes etc.
And yes all i have is the intake part of the tpi. I have the intake and runners and all that stuff, exhaust manifolds etc...is it possible to weld nuts to the headers so i dont have to use the manifolds? for the 02 sensors. And one more thing. Do i need to have the serpentine system?
Also i have a comp pro magnum cam that is a 510 and i have flat top pistons in my motor. and i also have an edelbrock noisy geardrive. are these parts going to work with the TPI???
Get the ecm from the Camaro,the new wiring harness would be best,old wiring harnesses usually have broken tabs.As far as the headers go,you can probably get someone to weld a bung in them for the O2 sensor,or you can buy aftermarket headers for this swap.I would take the serpintene sysstem and use it over a v groove setup regardless.Less slippage with a flat belt.
What are the duration and lope sep specs on your cam? You will not be able to run the knock sensor with the noisy gear drive. The harmonics trip the sensor. Start your timing in a safe zone (start it at 4, stock is 6, I run mine at 10) and then bump it up since you wont have a sensor to retard the timing when knock is occuring.
Take the ecm and all of the sensors, just not any of the wiring. All the sensors have clips that allow you to unplug the wiring. Take the distributor as well.
What year TPI is this? You will need (depending on the year) MAF (Mass Air Flow - Only on 88 and below TPI's), IAC (Idle Air Control), TPS (Throttle Position Sensor), MAP (Manifold Pressure - only on 89 and above TPI's), MAT (Manifold Air Temp), CTS (Coolant Temp Sensor - same unit as MAT sensor, It has two), ESC (Electronic Spark control - 88 and below). In 85 they had a MAF power/burnoff relay. New, GM wants 900 dollars for this part however it can be found on ebay for about 30 bucks. I even have an extra. In 86 they switched to two seperate normal relays which can be had for about 15 bucks each. Dont forget to grab the fuel pump relay. If you forget it also can be had for about 18 bucks new. I may be forgeting something so forgive me.
You also need to have a return line for your fuel to go back to the tank as this is a high pressure system. You will need a pump that can push 38-52 PSI and high pressure fuel line to support this.
Any other questions let me know. Feel free to post or PM me if you have more questions. Once you get to installing it let me know and I'll send you my phone number if you get stuck. I went through an unessesary hell getting mine setup (when it was actually quite simple) and would be glad to help you in any way possible.
BTW for the O2 sensor I just drilled a hole on the collector, and went down to ACE and found a nut that fit the sensor and welded it on.
You can buy collectors that have O2 bungs welded in them from summit racing or jeg's.
But, that might not be important, because I don't think this swap is going to work on your car without some computer tweaking. You need to know what year the TPI came off of, what engine size it had, and how the system works.
It seems like most of the TPI's out there in the junkyards are on 305's, and I'm presuming that you have at least a 350. Even at stock (relatively low) power levels, the 350 used bigger injectors than the 305. With that cam, I'm presuming you'll be making a good bit of power, and would probably need bigger injectors than came on a 350, or at least more fuel pressure.
Next, the TPI manifold system was designed for torque on a 305. That's why it has long, small runners. It limited the rpm capability of the stock 350, and yours (again, I'm presuming) is going to want to rev even higher. Not good.
Another thing: some of the TPI's used a manifold air pressure (MAP) sensor, and some used a mass airflow (MAF) sensor. You'd have a better chance with a MAF unit, as it actually measures how much air is flowing into the manifold and bases the A/F mix on that. Even then, though, you may be flowing more air than the factory computer can comprehend. Now, if you have a MAP unit, you're really screwed, because it bases fuel delivery on demand that it extrapolates from reading intake manifold vacuum. MAP fuel injection systems really hate cam overlap, and you've got a lot of it, since I'm guessing that cam has about 240* of duration at .050. That computer would be confused from the second you started it and weren't pulling anywhere close to 18-20" of vacuum.
Finally, I do not remember if TPI has a knock sensor, but I am thinking it does, and that won't like your gear drive.
You will want an aftermarket chip to get it to run correctly. The 350 will WANT bigger injectors however it should run with the ones you have. I recommend getting an Adjustable Fuel Pressure regulator and bumping it up a bit.
MAF and MAP setups both have their goods and bads. Newer FI cars run both actually but one does not have a significant advantage over the other.
IF you change injectors get a set off ebay and save yourself the 60 dollar per injector that you find at autostores.
For the most part the 305's and 350's used the SAME TPI unit. Indeed they were designed for the 305 however I am using one on a 350 (different injectors and different chip) and it works fantastic. Best mod I have ever done to this engine.
Dont let anything discourage you. Its a fun and rewarding swap.
Good advice siggy. In retrospect, my post sounded discouraging, but the point was that on a hot street engine, there's going to be a little bit more to it than just bolt on and go, and it should be well-thought-out from the start.
ok, im not sure what an ecm is, can somebody help me out on that. And i need to know what to take off of the camaro...someone said the ecm.. anyways will i be needing the distributor that came with the camaro? the camaro is a 1987 iroc. And yes it does have a mass airflow sensor.
I live in BC and can someone give me a rough estimate on a wiring kit for this...how much it would cost at eg. lordco?
One other thing, this is a fair size cam, and i have flat top pistons, will this TPI work with those parts?? The wiring harness that is in the camaro isnt melted or broken apart or anything all the wirres in the engine bay are held together by plastic coatings and there is onyl one spot for each plug...if i were to use this, how would i remove it from the car? if i wanted the camaros wiring harness, how do i get to the computer and where do i start taking it apart? does the wiring harness from the engine bay unplug AT the engine bay??? thanks
Its fed through the firewall to under the dash on the passenger side where the ECM is. Yes you will need the distributor from the camaro as it plugs into the harness as well for the timing controller. This system controls your timing advance only leaving you to set initial timing. If you dont have it or cant get it then just get one for the same year Camaro at a parts store.
Given that you seem to have limited experience with the electronics I would HIGHLY recommend getting an aftermarket harness. Painless has them for $320 and are fully labeled with instructions and tech support.
You will have to cut things out of the harness that you wont need such as highlights and such. Everything should unplug minus the power wires and a few accesorries which you'll have to cut and re-soder later on. There are about 5 different grounds on these. The beauty of the aftermarket harness is they run all the groungs through one ring which is nice so it doesn't leave you chasing down bad grounds. The painless already has inline fuse holders to protect the ECM (Computer) and such.
well the plugs for the TPI and in the engine bay are pretty straight forward. When it goes into the inside of the car....is there alot of wires to hook up?? Someone told me that i could get the factory connectors from the local GM dealer so you don't have to butcher everthing and the tpi harness will just plug in....is this true or false?
before i install a tpi wiring harness what do i do about the one that is in my car right now??? does it just stay there or will that one feed into the TPI harness???
Does anybody have any tips for taking the harness out of the iroc?? whats the procedure??
I am going to my buddies house this weekend, and im going to take the harness out of the 88 iroc. Does anybody know where to start? Is anybody able to tell me step by step procedure how to do it? if someone does...
There is no "procedure" for taking out the harness. Everything that needs to clip back into a sensor can be unclipped from where it is now. Anything else you need will just be cut out.
What wiring do you have in your engine bay now? Keep any 12v wires you have there, and anything else that was used to run the old engine, ditch it. Like I have been saying the TPI harness is fairly self contained.
I am very willing to help but you have asked this question so many times over and it just something you have to do and learn as you go. The only real help you'd get with it is if someone was there with you. Its hard to tell you what wires to cut and not to cut if we cant see them lol. Trace each wires that comes out the back of the computer. You will need ALL of those wires. Thats about it. You might have to run some seperate wires for power in the new setup but maybe not. Just have to see when you get there.