[TurboS10]

Hey guys,

I got the engine out of my S-10 today and so far things are not a complete loss. I found that the main bearings are completely gone and got so hot they had lost their tension. Rod bearings are not too bad. I think that both rods and mains on the crank will need to be turned. As far as I can tell everything else is okay, but I have not gotten completely through it.

The big question is: what the hell caused this? For those who dont know or remember I had a plugged oil passage on the lifter galley when I first started the engine. I was able to blow out the crap and isolated it so it did not go to the bearings. My thinking is that there was probably other debris somewhere else that started in on the bearings. Let me know your thoughts. I have not talked to my machinst yet, but I paid him to do block prep for assembly.......

Chris

 

[orangef4]

I would say some of the debris plugging up the cam gallery got into the main oil feeds. They do feed from the same location....
Also, if the bypass for the oil filter openend (assuming you haven't blocked it) it wouldn't take long for some of that debris to chew up the bearings. I'd check the cam and oil pump to be extra sure. The gears in the pump will probably be chewed up pretty good.

 

[docvette]

Tear down

Doc hereimp:

Before you send the block back, After you tear it down, Get a big drip pan you can set it in standing up and wash it down with Lacquer Thinner and pressure, and see what washes out, Bet ya find Machine Sand/ Shavings in it...

Even real Good machinists Space it from time to time...That's why it's always a good idea to wash it before you assemble it yourself, It dosen't hurt a thing, and It saves the pain of having to redo your good work again.

Sorry to see that man..

Doc imp:

 

[TurboS10]

I have always paid for cam bearing and plug installation and block cleaning. I have never had a problem before this one. With the plugs and bearings installed there is not much that can be done to get everything cleaned out so you kindof have to rely on the machinist unless you do it all. It is a real bummer

I think that all the debris should be easy to remove this time since I will be doing it myself. Hopefully the machinist can admit the mistake. I really think that is the issue. I think that if it was and oil delivery or heat issue the rods would have had the same problem.


Chris

 

[jeeptuff]

Man that sucks. Hope some god comes of this tragedy.. good luck.

 

[HemmiGremmie]

Just kinda looks like no oil got to em and they overheated. A guy I know always took a brush(like a pipe cleaner) and cleaned out all the places that sometimes the cleaning at the machine shop dont get to. Im lost about what happened. HG

 

[docvette]

Heat

Doc hereimp:

And usually a heat issue (oil starvation) Will show a Bluish Burning or "Etch" in all the bearings...I didn't see any there...It looked more like simple contamination...The rods probably faired better, simply because they were getting dipped in oil on each revolution, where the mains don't have that option.

I hope they do you right by the job...most guy's will.

Doc imp:

 

[NAIRB]

Man Turbo, that's a bummer. I always clean everything myself, even when I didn't build engines for a living. I consider it to be the number one important part of engine building basics.

Did you spin any bearings? It looks like that rod cap had the bearing turn in it.

I guess that was the bearing insert I'm seeing in the pic, not the actual cap.

 

[1BAD80]

Hi Chris
I agree with Narib on this one.
It does look like one did spin on the cap to me.
When you had the plugged oil passage on the lifter galley and first started the engine that was too late, the debris got into the motor from it.
How high was the PSI on the turbo ?
George ain:

 

[tresi]

What does the cam and lifters look like? The bottom end photo's really don't match the granular chunks that was in the oil filter pics. Of course I'm not seeing it in person.

 

[killerformula]

hope you can save the cam. BTW, nice rods. What a mess. Debris in your block caused the failure, I just hope there can be a diplomatic solution given that you paid somebody and they pretty much failed to do their job...

K:boxing:

 

[tresi]

I have always paid for cam bearing and plug installation and block cleaning. I have never had a problem before this one. With the plugs and bearings installed there is not much that can be done to get everything cleaned out so you kindof have to rely on the machinist unless you do it all. It is a real bummer

I think that all the debris should be easy to remove this time since I will be doing it myself. Hopefully the machinist can admit the mistake. I really think that is the issue. I think that if it was and oil delivery or heat issue the rods would have had the same problem.


Chris

I never let the machine shop install the cam bearings and block plugs. I allways write on the shop ticket that they are not to be intalled. The one time that that they did install them I refused to to pay for them. They said they wouldn't charge for the labor but that they couldn't give me the bearings for free. I offered to come back with my cam bearing driver and knock them out and give them back. They gave up the fight after that.

 

[TurboS10]

There are no spun bearings. The rod cap still has the bearing in it. You can see it is much better than the mains. Since the rods are fed by the mains, I cant see it being a delivery problem. The engine ran for way too long and never did sieze. It did start to idle lower at the last due to the bearings being chewed to pieces. I wish you could see the bearings in person. They are cut up BAD! The back side of the bearings is actually blue from heat. I think that all the chunks is the bearing wadding up. You can see in the one pic that the liner is peeling off of the third bearing and one of them is already gone.

I dont have the cam out yet, but all of the lobes look good. It had not really developed any valve trane noise so I think all is okay. Something could, of course, show up when I get more of it apart. I have to think from what I saw so far that the trash in the block is what caused this. I guess when I had the plugged passage I should have pulled the engine, but hind site is always 20/20. My machinist said it is not that uncommon to have the particular place plugged that I have. It is the tiny passage under the rear cam bearing.

Chris

 

[docvette]

Shop

Doc here imp:

So, Did the machinist say they were going to do right by you?

Maybe kick in on the parts too?

Seems like It shouldn't have happened if the block were More carefully cleaned and inspected when they had it?

Doc imp:

 

[1BAD80]

:boxing: stop being nice to the machinist, you paid for a job to be done.
Man.. Chris you have so much time & money in the motor I would demand all parts and machining is at his cost at minimum.
Like you stated he said yes they do plug in that area then HE should have checked it.
Don't forget to clean to turbo line's to be safe.
LOL

 

[TurboS10]

I have not talked to the machinist yet. I wanted to see what everyone thought from the pictures and what I am seeing before I go talk to him. I am not too sure what to push for. I will have to have bearings, and gaskets along with having the crank turned. The crank thing really ticks me off since this is a brand new 4340 eagle crank.

I will definately clean out the block and all feed lines to the oil cooler and turbo since I am sure it all saw debris. Looks like my winter will be busy building this damned thing again.

Chris

 

[1BAD80]

LOL keep us updated.
G

 

[Ghetto Jet]

I'm sorry about your bad luck.

Just watch and see how remorseful your machinist is when you show him what happened, that will give you a good indication how much you can get out of him.

 

[killerformula]

yeah, watch how remorseful he is when you cave his nuts in.

K

 

[k-star]

bearings

Turbo S-10, Did you assemble this engine your self??? If so do you have all the main and rod clearences recorded and what were they???

Refresh my memory on what debris you had in the engine before this.. I do remember the pictures of what you found in the filter..



Keith