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Discussion Starter #82
So I received an email saying that the slight tolerance differences in the retainers/keepers may result in varying heights, also forged keepers tend to have a slight raised edge on one side due to the manufacturing process, and as much as it might seem "out" it is in fact correct..

I have an option to order "perfectly" seated/matched retainers/locks - but was told that mine would work just perfectly -

Just some additional info i thought I would pass along-
 

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These look like beehive springs and matching retainers. If so they are made for and in metric dimensions not standard American measurements. GM never put metric valve train components nor beehive springs on production Gen 1 or 2 engines.

When beehive metric sized retainers and 11/32nd valve stem diameters are matched with locks machined for American standard measurements you get what you see here where the lock sits proud of the retainer. In my experience, which while extensive is not all knowing, the only beehive retainer I know of that properly addresses seating the locks flush with the top of the retainer as found with the Chevy production parts is the Comp. 787-16.

The fact you see the lock sitting proud of the retainer means the retainer and spring are compressed by that distance and that rather than the locks being in contact with the surface of their sides to the retainer’s there is only a line of ring contact. If you run high RPMs frequently this will be eventually break the lock or the retainer as these parts get pounded.

From an installation stand point yes you can do this and I’m sure a lot of people do. This caught my eye on my first beehive to Gen 1 build many years ago so I took the time to study what was going on, this being the difference between engine builders and engine assemblers, and why I get, or got before retiring, the big bucks as these little things can become expensive failure points and I don’t, and certainly my customers don‘t, like expensive but avoidable failures.

Bogie
 

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Chevrolet Performance 19303149 CT400 604 Crate Spring Retainers, Set/8

Beehive spring retainer for 11/32 valve. Uses conventional 11/32 locks.
 

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Discussion Starter #87 (Edited)
Ok - final stages of assembly here - this was a complete eagle kit, does the damper look "in" enough? (no reluctor - going carb) so it "should" be right - just checking..

  1. crank is 1 inch deep from inside damper
  2. back of damper is 0.250 from standard timing cover
  3. back of damper is 1-5/16 from machined block surface
  4. its a pioneer 47440 model damper (came with balanced kit)
Link to kit: Eagle Specialty Products B13405L03068 Eagle Street Performance Rotating Assemblies with Keith Black Pistons | Summit Racing


614536


614537


614538
 

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Discussion Starter #88
One summit reviewer noted that the crank snapped right behind the timing cover after light use on this kit, probably was in the same situation and ran it like this... im wondering if I shouldnt turn the darn thing down on the lathe.. this seems way to far off the crank -
 

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from the front engine mount surface of the block to the front of the damper is about 2.75"

the front of the damper should always be the same location
 

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Mine is at 2.8" and def wont go more-
Mock up the waterpump and the pump pulley and crank pulley, see what the alignment is.

not saying this number is right, but I think 1.060" from crank nose to face of balancer...at least for stock GM Forged cranks IIRC is the number my mind keeps coming to.
 

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The damper should both be tight to the timing gear and flush with the crank end, something ain’t right!

I cannot track your damper part number back to a Pioneer part. Looks like the Pioneer part for a 400 damper is DA-400 not 47400.

Bogie
 

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The damper should both be tight to the timing gear and flush with the crank end, something ain’t right!

I cannot track your damper part number back to a Pioneer part. Looks like the Pioneer part for a 400 damper is DA-400 not 47400.

Bogie
SBC crank snout is never flush to the front face of the damper
 

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Discussion Starter #95
ok thanks - just wanted to check - the timing gear came with the set i put on - its a high performance set and it went on perfect. zero slop and pre stretched-

I will bolt it up and try run this thing asap - been way too long!

Thanks for the info chaps - much appreciated.
 

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In the future, always measure the crank and hone the damper if needed for a .002-.003 press fit.
It's takes 5 minutes and save 5 hours fixing the damper and crank snout when it breaks off, shears the key, ruins the hub or at the least, you'll know by feel with the thing is seated against the lower timing gear.
I see them out of spec pretty often to NOT check them.
 

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Johnson grass is correct---BUT---do not hone the damper so it slides on the crank without any press fit, unless use are just using a hub and not a damper
 

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Discussion Starter #99
yeah - it went on well, ive prob assembled over a 100 motors - nothing different, was just curious on the exact measurement as this is a hopeful 450-500hp build.
 

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Discussion Starter #100
Well just a big huge thanks to everyone for walking along - fired her up and she ran near instantly and VERY smooth on a just primed carb!

Now to finish the front end stuff.. rebuild the 200-4r and drop er in!!

Got 215 average cranking psi

 
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