Hot Rod Forum banner

What do you think of the welfare standards?

  • I think they are ok.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I think they need updated.

    Votes: 13 100.0%
1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
welfare check

I just like geting peoples views about certain subjects. I guess we just need to talk about cars and girls, not to be rude or anything.
 

·
Tazz
Joined
·
2,048 Posts
Just curious is all...

And just what do your have against girls and hot rods? Polls are OK...who likes Chebby's, And who would die for a Ford or Mopar...but how about them red heads and blondes...who prefers what?

Tazz
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
18,402 Posts
Your polls are way too vague............... :confused: ............What about the welfare standards?


I would rather talk cars.......................
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
Sort of a biased poll

Those who want more welfare will say they need to be updated those who want less will say the same. You have combined 2 choices into 1 which will mean that ther is a 2:1 bias there.
 

·
or Jeff, or Doc, or...
Joined
·
989 Posts
You definately need another catagory. How about:


Welfare pays too good already. If they are unsatisfied, let them try working for a living, like everyone else.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
welfare checks

I agree, most people on welfare have the ability to work but are plain lazy. I raise chickens for a living and go to high school. most people around my area could not do this.
 

·
Race The Truck
Joined
·
675 Posts
Does anyone understand the welfare system or are you just speaking from lack of knowledge. Same thing with Disability. I'm sure there are people out there cheating the system that's a given.

I know a guy that had a heart attack and he's living in a small trailer and just barely has enough to live on with him and his son.
He is going to have to move back east to live with family so he can afford his Meds.
Can anyone hear live on 1500.00 a month and when his son turns 18 he loose 500.00 bucks. I can't live on that!

So don't be so sure to judge people tell you have walk in there shoes.


Craig
 

·
or Jeff, or Doc, or...
Joined
·
989 Posts
Craig,
I am very familiar with the system. I see abuses of BOTH programs on a daily basis. I like to know where I am spending my money.
Where does that $1,500/month come from? And how much is his Section 8 housing allowance in addition to the $1,500? Food Stamps? OK, lets break that down. $1,500 a month x 12 equals 18,000 a year, divided by 2080 (Working hours in a year) constitutes a wage of $8.65 an hour for doing nothing! Thats above minimum wage. Why is it fair for a family to have Mom or Dad working full time at a Mc Donalds for less money than Welfare?
The "Government" gets it from somewhere. Yes, that would be the working class. Taxpayers. Overburdened taxpayers. The burgeoning cases of welfare and diability is killing the middle class. Couple that with less good paying jobs....ouch.
There is nothing in our constitution that states we need to provide for other people. Prior to Welfare and Workmans Comp/Disability, the FAMILY took care of their own. The indigent went to the church for charity. (A primary reason why a churches revenue was never taxed.) Welfare has broke the family unit. They no longer have to depend on each other. The Government will take care of them. So now we have splintered the family unit... how do we get them back together? How do we get people to provide for themselves? At some point, we have to turn the tables back , so that those who provide for themselves do not have to shoulder the burnden of those who won't. Leave them for their families or their churches to provide for them. I take care of my family. Its time others did.
 

·
Hotrodders.com Moderator
Joined
·
1,642 Posts
Personally, I am against bashing anyone who struggles in life. We are supposed to be the greatest nation on earth, but we are quickly falling towards a class system of rich/poor.

There is no great benefit living off of welfare. Welfare or working for minimum wage is still a piss poor existence.

I've been to the bottom myself, and I know how hard it is to get up off the floor.

I have no easy answer for anyone who struggles in life other than to believe that there is more to life than to merely consider success to be a wad of cash.

I pay $500.00 per month for my group health insurance. I make good money, but if you deduct the healthcare costs and the taxes, I make a very meager amount of bring home cash.

I cannot fathom what it's like for those that are actually mentally challenged or cannot earn a decent wage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Wisconsins former governor Tommy Thomspson made big changes to the welfare system. He called it Wisconsin works. I haven't followed what was changed or exactly what it involved since I won't be getting money from welfare. Basically it said you must work and it was made very hard to receive welfare. Only problem is that homelessness raised way up, as well is children taken care of by the state. They claim he did this to encourage big business to come to the state and have available cheap labor. A lot of people abuse the system and it upsets me, Enough fat and lazy people with kids that don't want to work, and when in danger of losing benefits, they pop out another kid. Just like there are people who will trade food stamps for beer and let their kids go hungry. But there are people who truely need Welfare. Totally eliminating the system isn't the way I don't believe, but if there were a good way to stop the ones who abuse the system I would be for it. I have a problem with handouts unless some one is in dire need of one.
 

·
or Jeff, or Doc, or...
Joined
·
989 Posts
Nairb-
We're in a Catch 22. When we provide a living for a growing segment of the population, we are paying for it with our tax dollars. The more on the programs, the more taxes we pay.
Part of that $500/month you pay for insurance goes to pay for items that Medicaid wouldn't cover. That hospital E.R. that the medicaid recipient went to for a cold, didn't recoup the costs for services from Medicaid. That raises overhead, which your insurance co.pays.

We need a welfare reform. Not the Reform that Clinton enacted in 93. He simply increased the rolls, when he separated Welfare from Medicaid. Before, you had to qualify for both. Now you only need to qualify for one, to get that program. Noce. It increased each program by over 20%. Why do you think Hillary said we would have a health care crisis?? They caused it! Ever since 1993, my health insurance premiums have increased in double digits every year!! I pay over $970 a month for my family.

I think when we are forced to cut back on these programs even more, you will see everyone have to depend on our families, like the old days. I have to be a doomsday kind of guy, but its coming faster than anyone thinks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,519 Posts
NAIRB said:
Personally, I am against bashing anyone who struggles in life. We are supposed to be the greatest nation on earth, but we are quickly falling towards a class system of rich/poor.

There is no great benefit living off of welfare. Welfare or working for minimum wage is still a piss poor existence.

I've been to the bottom myself, and I know how hard it is to get up off the floor.

I have no easy answer for anyone who struggles in life other than to believe that there is more to life than to merely consider success to be a wad of cash.

I pay $500.00 per month for my group health insurance. I make good money, but if you deduct the healthcare costs and the taxes, I make a very meager amount of bring home cash.

I cannot fathom what it's like for those that are actually mentally challenged or cannot earn a decent wage.

I'm with you man. There are a lot of folks who have never been a day on welfare calling it out for its faults. Everybody thinks their story about working 3 crap-paying jobs not only refutes welfare but is noble and unique. Its not noble, and its not unique. Every dude on this site has a story about how he struggled, some of us just don't fly it like a flag every time somebody asks us like a badge of honor.

I worked with these people in detroit for over a year. Their houses had roaches and they dont make anything close to 1500 bucks a month. Most make 5-600 a month and have to pay rent out of that. You've got 50 year old people having strokes, heart-attacks, advanced diabetes and about half of them don't have any teeth.

If you want to say the system needs to be changed, then fine. But dont pretend these people are living lavish lives. That's just B.S.

K
 

·
Hotrodders.com Moderator
Joined
·
2,854 Posts
My 2c on the subject. Welfare used to be called Relief. It was intended to be just that, relief from a job loss, a striking union, a way to stay fed until things changed for the better. It was not meant to be a lifestyle, it was RELIEF! Pride in working for a living seems to disappear to some folks. You cannot find a white person in Ca. that will pick fruit. Back breaking job, but many ot the Oakies escaping the Dust Bowl days did this, pride was a motivator. Living on the dole for a living, pride disappears. Look around, illegal immigrants have the jobs they have at hotels, restaurants, factories, agriculture because the system has broke down and all sense of pride in one's self is gone. Dan
 

·
Race The Truck
Joined
·
675 Posts
Beenaway2long said:
Craig,
I am very familiar with the system. I see abuses of BOTH programs on a daily basis. I like to know where I am spending my money.
Where does that $1,500/month come from? And how much is his Section 8 housing allowance in addition to the $1,500? Food Stamps? OK, lets break that down. $1,500 a month x 12 equals 18,000 a year, divided by 2080 (Working hours in a year) constitutes a wage of $8.65 an hour for doing nothing! Thats above minimum wage. Why is it fair for a family to have Mom or Dad working full time at a Mc Donalds for less money than Welfare?
The "Government" gets it from somewhere. Yes, that would be the working class. Taxpayers. Overburdened taxpayers. The burgeoning cases of welfare and diability is killing the middle class. Couple that with less good paying jobs....ouch.
There is nothing in our constitution that states we need to provide for other people. Prior to Welfare and Workmans Comp/Disability, the FAMILY took care of their own. The indigent went to the church for charity. (A primary reason why a churches revenue was never taxed.) Welfare has broke the family unit. They no longer have to depend on each other. The Government will take care of them. So now we have splintered the family unit... how do we get them back together? How do we get people to provide for themselves? At some point, we have to turn the tables back , so that those who provide for themselves do not have to shoulder the burnden of those who won't. Leave them for their families or their churches to provide for them. I take care of my family. Its time others did.
Wellfare hear is a short term deal, To help people tell they find work. rent money, food stamps and Medical. But its not forever. After 911 I hear all kind of stories about people not being able to find work any where. selling all there stuff trying to keep there house not being able to sell it. We had a tent city where people were living because they lost everything. So you would kick them to the curb! Tell you have been there Needing help not by you own doing and can't find a job to save your life you will sing a diffrent tune.

How many of you family live near you? and can afford to feed or even house you for a long time. Where is the church going to put the homeless people the sick mental health problem and so on. That old time thinking when eveyone live on the farm or same town with the big 10 room house. yea right.

Then thank god there a system out there to help you get back on you feet.

Now disability is a different story its your money you have paid into in case you disabled Where you can't work anymore. Based on how much you have paid in to the system is what you qualify for. He for him self got a 1,000.00 and each depend was 500.00 his one son tell he is eighteen. SO how could you say a Disabled person should have to work. SO for sure you could not live on a 1,000.00 bucks a month. Could you pay rent have a car buy food and pay for you meds? I don't think so.
Now hear in Arizona if your not making 15.00 an hour you are consider working poor as was reported by a story done in the local new paper. rental costs, insurance, transportation, gas, electrical, and food for a single person.

To get your own money you have paid in for 30 years you have to prove your disable or your doctor or doctor say your disabled. This whole process takes well over a year. and your told up front you will be turned down the first round.
I all so know this first hand and on going claim with SSA
I have been told lies I have had them call me and tryed to get me to fill out paper work. My Attorney went Nuts. all the norn so they don't have to pay ya. The truth is the goverment has spent everones SSA there none left. So you have to do battle just to get your own money. Whats wrong with this Picture.

And last retired people same deal, we have a ton of them hear. trying to make ends meet. I see it first hand people deciding to buy meds or eat. Its a sad thing. SSA my butt.
So until you get there you have know Idea how tuff it is. You Just complain your paying to much.
Tell you need it and you will say what we all say thank god I have a place to sleep for my family.

If your lucky and save your money and don't have any heath problem. you will be able to retire and live ok for a time tell your medical bill nursing home bills suck you dry.

There a reason the system was set up! I would educate my self a little more before complaining.

Craig
 

·
or Jeff, or Doc, or...
Joined
·
989 Posts
Craig,
We must live in different worlds, for sure. We have 7th and 8th generation Welfare recipients here in NY. They are PLENTY able to work. They have no problem hanging around the streets until dawn.

LETS BE CLEAR. NOT EVERYONE IS MILKING THE SYSTEM.

But there is a substantial portion of the recipients in NYS that can work, that choose not to. The same goes for SSDI. You only pay PENNIES for your SSDI. Your employer, on the other hand....

Your employer pays the workmans comp insurance. I am an employer, I know firsthand. I have a perfect experience rating, and for that, I only have to pay 17% of EVERY dollar my caprenters make. A friend, in a similar business pays over 38%. His W/C experience rating was raised as a result of one guy getting ceiling tile dust in his eyes (wouldn't wear safety glasses that were provided), and another slicing his finger when he wasn't wearing gloves that were provided. Thank God we aren't steel workers , who pay over 95% of an employee's wages in W/C Insurance.
There are very few people that are 100% disabled Craig. They can sit behind a computer, or watch TV, or telemarketing. The restrictions placed by the doctors are B/S. I have a bad back. I get up often. These people CAN BE TRAINED. ANYONE can be. Now lets reiterate, that we are talking about people who worked, and were injured. We are not talking about parapalegics, Quads, mentally challenged, etc. Although, they DO work!
In todays system, there is absolutely NO REASON for anyone NOT to be High school educated at a minimum. It is their decision to drop school. Not the taxpayers who provide that eductaion for them. And ironically enough, they have a better chance of being college educated, as a result of financial aid. They have only themselves to blame.

You guys may be misinterpretting my intent. I do not have a problem HELPING someone. I just don't want to support them for life, when they won't help support themselves. If they won't do anything for themselves, WHY SHOULD I? Why should they get a free ride.



Killer-
Those roaches go away when you clean up after yourself.

Lavish, no. But they certainly have it ALOT better than someone trying to do it the respectable way. AKA Single mom working at a Burger King. SHE is the one that DESERVES the help, but its not available, because of the people that won't TRY to help themselves.

Tell me why a 16 year old girl (mother is on welfare), who gets pregnant, then emancipated, and starts collecting Welfare. Lives across the hall , in the same apartment building. Both get checks. Both get the Section 8 housing.
Now, if you were the parent, and you were working, your daughter could not collect, and YOU would end up paying for the baby, until your daughter could afford it.

The system sucks. Its set up to divide families, and divorce all responsibility for one self. It should be MANDATORY for them to provide SOME SORT of income for themselves. Its just the opposite. If they help themself, they are penalized more than sitting home doing nothing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,519 Posts
B-

Well I really can't speculate on what people's personal reasons for being on welfare are. I think the first thing we need to separate are there are several separate forms of assistance. Welfare proper is applied for and granted case by case. SSDI will not be granted without a work history. SSI is basically what you get when you're too messed up to do anything with yourself. The SSDI people and SSI folks are the once I primarily worked with. Folks with diagnosed, and chronic and persistent mental illnesses. For a person who's that nuts, I really dont make any bones about them cleaning up after themselves properly or getting a job. Many of them do end up getting jobs (and you'll be happy to know there actually are services where people are signed up in these "workhouse" type jobs that you've suggested before, but it actually requires a pretty high level of functioning). I would disagree that their situations are better than a mom working at burger king. She has her faculties and is in control of her life. These other folks are subsisting from day to day and are nuttier than you can ever imagine if you have no experience with them.

So for those folks I don't think you're right or maybe you just dont understand the level of dysfunction. You know what's nuts man? THEY ALL WANT JOBS. Yep, that's right, every last one of them was begging me to help them find a job. Many of them would actually work for a while before they got fired or put back in the hospital and would lose it that way. There was only ever a small amount of time where they were in the right situation and on the right meds to be able to work consistently, and usually it only lasted for a while till they went nuts again. make no mistake, these people dont have it better than ANYBODY.

For folks who are being granted welfare and disability for problems that don't qualify, then sure, that's a systemic problem. I think its a little bold to speculate on a broader problem with only anecdotal data to work with, however. There's probably a separation that's needed when we term "welfare" as a broader sort-of "giving out money for nothing" phenomenon. I only have experience with truly disabled people- I dont have direct experience with many of the other groups of welfare recipients so I can't answer on their behalf, but I would argue that after we sift through all the bias and speculation in this thread, nobody else does either.

Lets just be careful before we assume things about people that we know nothing about is all I'm asking.

K
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top