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Revolution Calling
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Jason said:
This came out of a 2001 4L60E. What typically causes this?
Buying a TCI torque converter. (just shooting from the hip here)

Looks as if your 'new' TC was lubed for assembly. Often 'new' converters are sold under the moniker of 'new' but are actually just used up, painted up RECALIBRATED cores.

What causes the cracks? Catastrophic pump failure, vibration, ill balance is just a few.

Been there: (my pump/trans did not break this)
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Actually it's a Circle D converter that was restalled by FTI. I watched them do it today.
They did use a used pump, but it was as equally used as mine.

Me and two of the workers looked at it, they swapped that and the stator.

Later when I got home I was minutes from putting it in the trans and ran my finger around the inside and found the cracks.

So now it's on the way back in a UPS box and who knows how the hell they're going to butcher it now.

And I say butcher it because my converter had a negative fin angle and was real loose down low.

The pump they put in was a positive fin angle but they used a tool to bend the fins even more positive, this broke the brazing near the end of each fin.
I asked if those were going to be rewelded and he said no, he said he was going to tig something toward the center of the pump that sees more force. He did tig something, but I wasn't allowed in the welding room.

Seems to me that the ends of the fins nearest the OD of the tc are going to see more force and should have been welded back up.

$725 converter, I feel like it's ruined....no matter how much shiney black paint they pile on it.

Oh yea, the pump also had a balance weight on it with the number 20, when they balanced it the guy put a weight with the number 24 on it almost 180 degrees from the other weight! Whats up with that? The machine ended up reading 8 when he was done, but I personally would have taken the weight off instead of adding and equal amount to the other side.
 

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the factory hub is a hard metal.

i've seen converters with broken hub pieces that stayed in place till the trans was pulled for other reasons. then the hub piece fell out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
burnt olds said:
how far , gap , between flywheel and converter before you bolted up at bolt holes with converter all the way in trans .
Well I seen the cracks and thought it might be a bad idea to use it so I sent it back. Again, I never used it. Please read the above posts.
 

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Jason said:
Well I seen the cracks and thought it might be a bad idea to use it so I sent it back. Again, I never used it. Please read the above posts.

Good to hear you sent the unit back , cracks are not good in that area.

:cool:
 

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Jason said:
Well I seen the cracks and thought it might be a bad idea to use it so I sent it back. Again, I never used it. Please read the above posts.
This came out of a 2001 4L60E.
What typically causes this?

we read your post , it says it came out of , not out a box , a 2001 .
we can't help you if your not sure .
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
burnt olds said:
This came out of a 2001 4L60E.
What typically causes this?

we read your post , it says it came out of , not out a box , a 2001 .
we can't help you if your not sure .
Jesus ********ing christ man!

I took this converter out of the running vehicle to have the stall speed changed.

The entire front of the converter was changed. It was a slightly used front, used about as much as my original.

It was cracked. Someone elses 4L60E cracked it.

I am asking so, when I get a second repaired converter back, I can prevent this from happening to mine.

I'M ASKING WHAT CAUSES IT, THAT IS ALL I'M ASKING.
IT HAPPENS TO CONVERTERS FOR TH350'S TH400'S 700R4'S.

I AM ASKING WHAT CAUSES CONVERTERS TO CRACK LIKE THIS.

I CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE THIS QUESTION ANY MORE CLEAR. SORRY.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
burnt olds said:
This came out of a 2001 4L60E.
What typically causes this?

we read your post , it says it came out of , not out a box , a 2001 .
we can't help you if your not sure .
Ok I'll try to clear it up a little more. It came out of one 4L60E. It ended up on my converter that came out of a 4L60E, it was about to go into a 2001 4L60E.

Yea, the shop did in fact put it in a box WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING!

The point is IT CAME OUT OF A 4L60E.

Are you a G damn grammar teacher or are you able to diagnose automotive problems.

It looks like you're here to criticize sentence structure and ignore the question entirely.
 

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Jason said:
Ok I'll try to clear it up a little more. It came out of one 4L60E. It ended up on my converter that came out of a 4L60E, it was about to go into a 2001 4L60E.

Yea, the shop did in fact put it in a box WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING!

The point is IT CAME OUT OF A 4L60E.

Are you a G damn grammar teacher or are you able to diagnose automotive problems.

It looks like you're here to criticize sentence structure and ignore the question entirely.
people like you , never find answers
trying to help , but you need more help , go back to grammar school and get the teach to help you .

but just in case you want some help , ask GOD .

but to much gap will cause the converter to not ride fully in pump and the load will bo on end of converter and cause this .
seen it lots , just not from people who can't understand help , or they just don't want it after they ask ..
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
burnt olds said:
people like you , never find answers
trying to help , but you need more help , go back to grammar school and get the teach to help you .

but just in case you want some help , ask GOD .

but to much gap will cause the converter to not ride fully in pump and the load will bo on end of converter and cause this .
seen it lots , just not from people who can't understand help , or they just don't want it after they ask ..

yOU NEED TO STEP BACK AND REALIZE THAT i'M A LITTLE BIT PISSED OFF BECAUSE i JUST TOOK A 4000 MILE $7XX CONVERTER TO A SHOP TO GET RESTALLED and they totally butchered it.

This guy had the balls a few months ago to pm me out of the blue because I was questioning how converter builders balance their converters. He gave me his personal cell phone number so I could call him and he could yell at me about how much he's into the sport and doing the best work in the state.

He even invited me to the shop.

Now this situation comes up and I decide to call him and go to the shop to see their top notch operation. He knew when I was coming, he said he was going to do the work himself, I was there right when I said I would be, but he wasn't.

So I get to watch his help do all the work.

They bent the pump fins over cracking the braze. I asked if that was a problem and if they'd weld it back up. He said it wasn't a problem and didn't weld it back up.

They balanced it, he put a #24 weight 180 degrees opposite a #20 weight.

I drove 6 hours round trip and then found the hub no good, whole day wasted.

Does that sound like quality to you?
It wouldn't be that big a deal if the guy didn't make an extra effort to pick me off the internet to talk to on the phone and tell me how he takes such pride in the work that goes out of his shop, and how my comments on converter builders in general offended him.

He had his chance to shine and failed terribly.

Thats why I'm pissed off. YOU need to realize that after all this my typing anger isn't directed toward you. It's the situation. I'm sorry if you're offended, that wasn't my intention.

But do you see my point at least?
 

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i know how you feel , i just don't take it out on others , i kick my grill in lots of times , and eat baloney instead of steak for awhile to make up the money i throw-ed away .
i tore a trans apart a guy brought me and the converter was cracked as yours .he then stated he was buying a new flywheel cause is starter made noises as soon as he started it after he swapped out trans .
well we went outside to smoke one , and i leaned on his tailgate and saw the fly wheel .
he had bolted the flywheel on backward from swap he made.
leaving more gap cause the bolt up part was turned inward to motor instead of trans .
i asked if motor vibrated more , he said no , but when he got to 50 mpg's the car did . DUH !
EAT A QUAALUDE AND CALL ME IN THE MORNING
see ya
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
burnt olds said:
i know how you feel , i just don't take it out on others , i kick my grill in lots of times
I used to do that, then I'd be mad that the car ran great but had a footprint in the door that I had to fix.

I had the day set aside to get the car running and just cruise around, maybe fine tune it a bit.
Now I'm sitting. Got the stock converter here, about to give up on the hobby (again), throw it back in and say f' it.

Really I should have just drove the converter to the shop today. They can tell me whatever they want, they're GOING to tell me they welded the fins up even if they spent 20 minutes cutting it open, changing the hub and welding it back up having done nothing else. So I don't feel comfortable about it at all.
 

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Jason said:
I used to do that, then I'd be mad that the car ran great but had a footprint in the door that I had to fix.

I had the day set aside to get the car running and just cruise around, maybe fine tune it a bit.
Now I'm sitting. Got the stock converter here, about to give up on the hobby (again), throw it back in and say f' it.

Really I should have just drove the converter to the shop today. They can tell me whatever they want, they're GOING to tell me they welded the fins up even if they spent 20 minutes cutting it open, changing the hub and welding it back up having done nothing else. So I don't feel comfortable about it at all.
that the heart of the trans in my book , how much stall is it or is it a stocker ?
best to buy them new .
like engine rebuilding , never put a used cam or a used carburetor that you don't know about , it will bite you ,
flooding carbs will hurt a new motor ring sealing proper .

hope your days get better , see ya .
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
burnt olds said:
that the heart of the trans in my book , how much stall is it or is it a stocker ?
.
Thats the thing, digging deeper into why I'm so pissed off.

I ordered it brand new 2/12/2009, it has approx 4000 miles on it.
I specifically told the original builder that I DO NOT want a converter thats going to be loose down low. 3600 stall speed, 2.3 stall torque ratio is what he came up with.

It was EXACTLY what I DID NOT want.
I've owned many high stall converters, but this car is fairly mild compared to the others.
It did drop my ET by .6 seconds.
12 flat with a stock car with just full exhaust and a converter isn't bad IMO.

But driving around town was 2500 at least, until the solid lockup clutch slammed in to action.

So it was brand new. I watched them cut it open yesterday. The part they changed was used but looked like it had equal use as mine. Except for the cracked part and until he bent the fins over.

I'll admit, I did screw up I guess.
The original builder offered a free restall, or a full refund, even to send me a new one and let me keep two until I was ready to send one back.

But I figured for $125 I could have it changed out and back running in 24 hours or so. Plus I'd get to see the work being done, by the best shop in this state. Got to say, I'm not at all impressed.

I had a girlfriend that worked for a major converter rebuilder in the mid 90's, I spent time in a converter shop and this was stock only rebuilds. That shop was more impressive than this high performance shop by far.

That reminds me, at that shop they welded up the converters and checked runout on the same machine.
Yesterday at the best shop in the state I asked the guy if he checked runout and he said it's not necessary with the machine they used.
 

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Revolution Calling
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Jason i realize you are not so happy right now. Try and keep the perspective that this is an expensive hobby. It's a great hobby also. We have a voice here on Hotrodders. You are 'in effect' yelling at the top of your lungs with the keyboard. Maybe rightly so, I dunno, I wasn't there.

All I can leave you with is this link here on HR for Company Reviews. http://www.hotrodders.com/reviews.html

Other than that, I'd probably go throw that TC through their biggest window. :D (kidding.... ) (maybe)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Would anyone like to comment on the balance weights placed 180 degrees apart? Is there a reason, or is it just plain wrong?
Shouldn't they have just removed the one instead of adding another one of the same weight accross from it?
I watched the guy do it, it still said 8 grams off when he was done and their website claims they balance them more accurate than that, and everyone else.
You can see this weight between fti and the date. pic
This one is between the other fti stamping and the model number. pic.
20 gram weight. pic.
24 gram weight.
pic.

Heres a pm explaining how they care so much. pic
 

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Jason said:
Would anyone like to comment on the balance weights placed 180 degrees apart? Is there a reason, or is it just plain wrong?
Shouldn't they have just removed the one instead of adding another one of the same weight accross from it?
I watched the guy do it, it still said 8 grams off when he was done and their website claims they balance them more accurate than that, and everyone else.
It is at this exact moment when I'd have put an end to the proceedings (if I hadn't already ended them earlier) and simply taken him up on the refund offer.

To Balance:
The weights are removed, the balancer runs, weights are added. Not- weights left on , balancer runs, MORE weights are added. While it doesn't matter AFA the actual balance (other than they stopped before the job was done- at 8 grams of imbalance), it is not how it is supposed to be done. This speaks poorly of their methods, training and knowledge, plus if they're willing to cut corners w/you watching- what is going on when you can't see what's happening? :evil:

Unfortunately- and I think you have acknowledged this already- you are partially to blame, IMO. But it is only in hindsight that you could have known the whole outcome. You just trusted them to do what they said, instead of pulling the plug as soon as things got "iffy".

I have done the same thing, FWIW. And will likely do it again at some future point, but it is getting harder to put one over on me any more- you do gain a little insight by my age- one of the few benefits of being "seasoned". lol
 
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