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Get in, sit down, hang on
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How do you find your complete "Project Journal"?
I've just spent 1/2 hour looking for a specific post that I made about knock sensor (with part numbers and wiring diagrams, etc.) :(
 

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NEVER use credit cards!
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3,110 Posts
read the first page and assume the next two are more of the same and i agree. this blows. i'm wondering where the hell my avatar is, why i have to make another one, where are my photo albums? and how do you do a search? Not keeping the site updated was the main problem, then that makes this site run by a slum lord who will NOT update the new one and then when it falls apart will change the format again. JON! COME BACK JON! O jeez, just replied on this page and it shows on this page (1). why isnt it at the end? whatev. o it is at the end now. wow
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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16,296 Posts
read the first page and assume the next two are more of the same and i agree. this blows. i'm wondering where the hell my avatar is, why i have to make another one, where are my photo albums? and how do you do a search? Not keeping the site updated was the main problem, then that makes this site run by a slum lord who will NOT update the new one and then when it falls apart will change the format again. JON! COME BACK JON! O jeez, just replied on this page and it shows on this page (1). why isnt it at the end? whatev. o it is at the end now. wow
That is one of the odd things, its shows up somewhere on your screen when you first post it, like attached to the one you quoted or something but then it's at the end too? WTH?

Brian
 
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137 Posts
It's been explained for weeks now...too many security holes and problems in the old format software to keep it viable.
That's not even remotely true. VerticalScope is an advertising M&A company. They have their own branded platform. If you go to one of the 100's (literally over 600) automotive forums they own the look and feel is becoming quite consistent across all of them. S h i t t y. Hotrodders is just another victim. You will also note that all of a sudden this place is CRAMMED FULL of advertising including in-thread ads that previously only showed up for anonymous users. Oh, but conveniently, there is now a paid membership that makes most (not all) of the ads go away.

The previous platform was VBulletin and is considered to be one of the best built forum platforums available. They are for-profit and continue to do business because they are striving to be secure and compliant. There is nothing insecure about the platform. If you are running years-old versions then yes it will definitely have issues. Thus is the nature of software.

I run the infrastructure for several forum sites that are 100's of thousands of members and we run VBulletin quite consistently and, if configured with best practices, is very secure. The changes here on this site are for one reason, and one reason only: profit. VerticalScope has no interest in you, the forum user except for one thing - selling ads and behaviour metrics. Did you happen to notice the brand new "Do Not Sell My Data" link in the lower left hand corner? Might want to kinda think about why that is there.

My background is security engineering on the internet. Been doing it for 25 years. I have certifications a plenty that don't even fit on one business card. This is no longer a community. This is now a revenue center.
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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16,296 Posts
That all makes a lot of sense, yep, Jon started it and did such a great job then it gets sold and the big corporation takes over and it's crap because ALL THAT MATTERS are the numbers.

Brian
 

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True Hotrodder
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1,156 Posts
@Gorf - so what really bothers you? That it's now owned and operated by a company that has 100's of sites with the same look and feel or the fact that they are trying to make a profit? You say you run the infrastructure for other forums and are using the vBullentin software, so my question to you now is how do you get paid? Are you part of the ownership of the forums or just a contracted source and paid by your contracting company which of course would then be billing the forum ownership for those services. So now we are back to the fact that a large forum simply doesn't operate in a vacuum - there has to be some exchange of values for it remain viable and available. Somewhere along the line, it has to be profitable or it will disappear.
 

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True Hotrodder
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1,156 Posts
That all makes a lot of sense, yep, Jon started it and did such a great job then it gets sold and the big corporation takes over and it's crap because ALL THAT MATTERS are the numbers.

Brian
Why is it "crap" when a big corporation takes over? Large corporations run most of the things that make what we do available to us to start with or is this just one of those pissin' on the tree posts?
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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16,296 Posts
If someone would have told me when I had my body shop back in the eighties that one day there would be a chain of shops with 1300 locations doing collision body repair I would have fell on the floor laughing. Yet today this exists, and I worked for them for almost a year. It taught me a lot about how a large corporation can be. I have worked for a few, NOTHING was like this company! So I am sorry but if you will notice I have 16k posts here. I am not a drifter, I have posted articles and helped people for 15 years along with being helped by others and just fun chatting. This change here is BIG, MONSTROUSLY BIG. This isn't the same place, period. And like I said before, can you imagine if McDonalds changed this much? The sign changed, no big M golden arches, it's now blue, and not yellow, the menu is all different. It's in 12 different places in the store. Some items are in a paper menu on the counter, other items are on a tv screen that you have to use a remote to change from one screen to another. The workers don't talk to you, you have to write down what you want. It's totally different, how would that work for sales? I don't get it, I don't get changing this site so much. It's numbers, that is all most big corporations look at, those sales numbers. Here, there are algorithms for everything I am sure from how many new posts to how many replies with quotes to how many taps of the keyboard average and all that is all they are looking at to then introduce the proper ads to sell stuff, to start charging us to use the site, and on and on. I don't understand how this can work when it's changed so much.

Brian
 

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This day an age has introduced a whole new society , it feeds on greed& profit .There is very little pride left , its " get yours before the other guy gets it" , its not my kids I worry about as much as my grandkids , I'm not proud of the world they inherit !
 

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Premium Member
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Jon knew at the right time to sell out.. Its all about advertising now. If a kid is selling a ton of lemonade on side the road and the right person see's this happening, Someone will buy him out.. It's all about big business now..Jon seen it coming.. The new owner seen a ton of traffic passing through here and saw a opportunity to make money and we can blame him for that..If a tv show start getting to much drama people stop watching..The builders left the site and the people couldn't find enough to watch.. Even though there's some great builders hanging on..
 

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@Gorf - so what really bothers you? That it's now owned and operated by a company that has 100's of sites with the same look and feel or the fact that they are trying to make a profit? You say you run the infrastructure for other forums and are using the vBullentin software, so my question to you now is how do you get paid? Are you part of the ownership of the forums or just a contracted source and paid by your contracting company which of course would then be billing the forum ownership for those services. So now we are back to the fact that a large forum simply doesn't operate in a vacuum - there has to be some exchange of values for it remain viable and available. Somewhere along the line, it has to be profitable or it will disappear.
Aw I love capitalists who are such boot lickers that they cant POSSIBLY fathom that something is done for a community instead of a PROFIT. As a matter of fact since our forums serve the Open Source community, we don't ask for anything other than donations to keep the systems running. That's it. You get a once a year reminder PM that says "hey, we aren't suckling at the teet of capitalism and would appreciate a couple bucks if you have it."

Are you also shocked that Wikipedia is also non-profit and seems to do just fine? This site has a demographic of largely older white men. A demographic that doesn't take well to change. But here we are thrusting a terribly laid out design upon them forcing to rethink how they do everything they know. This is the Facebook Formula. You know you have your users, sorry ad revenue generators, by the balls and so when you change things you can you just say FU and move on. By the way, other sites that have undergone the VerticalSuck aquisition have all the same complaints as here. Be sure to check out the *****ing and moaning that has gone on over at Chevelles.com.

I have already bought domain names for a neutral site for hot rodders and car builders and have already purchased VB licenses directly in reaction to what is happening here on this forum. I am doing it out of my pocket because COMMUNITY is more important to me than profits. It will be slow to grow, I get it. But, like my other forums, we will promise that none of the BS that has gone on here will happen. We, like my other forums, will promise privacy and stability without an ad crushing experience. And, just like our other forums and my work with Wikipedia, when M&A ventures come along we will tell them to pound sand like we always have.
 

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... And like I said before, can you imagine if McDonalds changed this much? ...

Brian
I would like to point out that Jack in the Box did this in the late 80's with a complete redesign to "Monterey Jacks". That nearly drove them to bankruptcy. Guess what? They went back. Change for the sake of change is not always a wise decision.
 

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I have already bought domain names for a neutral site for hot rodders and car builders and have already purchased VB licenses directly in reaction to what is happening here on this forum. I am doing it out of my pocket because COMMUNITY is more important to me than profits. It will be slow to grow, I get it. But, like my other forums, we will promise that none of the BS that has gone on here will happen. We, like my other forums, will promise privacy and stability without an ad crushing experience. And, just like our other forums and my work with Wikipedia, when M&A ventures come along we will tell them to pound sand like we always have.
Whats funny is i ALMOST suggested exactly what you are doing (starting a VBulletin website) and migrating over. But Im a natural peacemaker and didn't want to start drama. 😬🤣
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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16,296 Posts
I would like to point out that Jack in the Box did this in the late 80's with a complete redesign to "Monterey Jacks". That nearly drove them to bankruptcy. Guess what? They went back. Change for the sake of change is not always a wise decision.
I remember that, in the commercials they showed the old signs being knocked down and oh yeah, they were going to get "fancy." Then it wasn't long they had Jack back in the commercials and begging people to come back promising the good old Jack in the box! I have studied marketing some, just as a hobby, I find it very interesting. Big change is not good, never is. Remember when JC Penny went to not having any "sales" with lowered prices, they went to special pricing all the time, oh yeah, we are going to lower ALL the prices all the time, there is no reason for you to wait until there is a sale to come in and buy something we are lowering the prices ALL THE TIME. This was a HUGE marketing plan, and it failed so damn back it was crazy! All that was forgotten and they were back to putting stuff on sale just the before! Cost them MILLIONS of dollars!

Yep marketing is a damn interesting subject.

Brian
 
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ASE Certified Master Machinist
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Vertical Scope aka Auto Guide aka Astro Glide did the same thing to Yellowbullet. Monty sold out, but he stayed around telling everyone that nothing would change. Guess what, it did and members left by the thousands. What was once the largest drag racing forum on the net is now just a shadow of it's former self. Astro Glide has a goal that any and every automotive forum on the net will belong to them. To collect and sell your data and sell advertising space is ALL they care about. You greedy MF's can't leave anything alone can you?
Gorf, when you get your site up and running, let us know. I'm sure there will be a mass exodus from here as well.
 

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Collector of "someday" cars
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Vertical Scope aka Auto Guide aka Astro Glide did the same thing to Yellowbullet. Monty sold out, but he stayed around telling everyone that nothing would change. Guess what, it did and members left by the thousands. What was once the largest drag racing forum on the net is now just a shadow of it's former self. Astro Glide has a goal that any and every automotive forum on the net will belong to them. To collect and sell your data and sell advertising space is ALL they care about. You greedy MF's can't leave anything alone can you?
Gorf, when you get your site up and running, let us know. I'm sure there will be a mass exodus from here as well.
Exactly, this transition started over 10 years ago with Auto Guide buying up auto related forums. They have branched out into ANY forum that has become successful and now claim they own over 800 !!! Isn't this called a MONOPOLY ????????? Oh, that's right, governments don't mind monopolies anymore, like google, facebook, microsoft, amazon and others, as long as they can tap into all that information for their use too, that they aren't supposed to do or have on their own.
I left Team Chevelle and Camaro, along with a GTO site years ago over their sale to Auto Guide. I stayed with this forum after the sale because it took much longer for the change, but I too, would welcome a new forum free from the data mining intrusion so they can sell the data and suggest "interest based ads". Fock that crap, when I'm interested in something, I'll do my own research, I don't need a computer algorithm to do it for me.
 

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"Upgrade to premium"

Probably mostly means ad-free and is cheap. Free is the only way I am interested. Anything with an upgrade to premium option says to me the free will be going away. Thats just how I read that, anywhere.
The other group I visit changed to this same format and I haven't been here in a while, so at first all I noticed was the different header up top. As far as ads, just like on the other group, I don't pay them a cent, and I don't have any ads. None. I use Firefox and AdBlocker Ultimate, which both are also free.
 
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