[torinofan]

Hi, This is my first post here(i have posted on a few other sites), but I just recently took a trip out to the desert to visit my grandparents, and i came across this Gran Torino which my grandpa is just letting me take (it obviously needs a LOT of work, but I have a lot of time). I've been looking up engine differences for a few hours every day this week, and scrolling back and forth between the pictures i took of the car, online engine guides, ebay auctions, google images, and this site. I am a noob to classic cars but not cars in general, I know how to do more than a few mod's and repairs.

I need to find the engine, I believe it is some type of 351 (hopefully a windsor) but i could be wrong.

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BTW The Engine has been replaced!! i don't know with what.
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Thank You so much for your help. :thumbup:

 

[eloc431962]

Not real sure from your pics but looks like a 302 to me. got any pics with the breather off. Cole

 

[torinofan]

Nah I don't have any of the breather, i wish i knew what i was looking for when i was up there, or i would've taken some close ups of the breather and valve/rocker covers

heres some more pics, idk if it will help, but thanks anyway. :sweat:

 

[eloc431962]

I really can't tell what it is but it's either a 351 windsor or a 302, a 302 intake is only like 9 inches wide a 351 windsor is wider so if you can measure the intake then we will know. Cole

 

[eloc431962]

If it's where you can take the breather off and check the fireing order on the intake if it's a 351 windsor the fireing order will be 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. If it's a 302 it will be 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. hope this helps. Cole

 

[torinofan]

*bump* is there any way to tell what year it is? its not really worth it to me to pick the car up if its only going to be making less than 200hp or i can't get it to 200hp fairly easily. If it is a 302 then it will most likely be a 1974 model which puts out less than 200hp, a '74 351W was less than 200hp as well

 

[techinspector1]

Drastic changes were afoot in the automotive industry beginning in 1972. We were in the middle of the Arab Oil Embargo and "green" people were practically rioting in the streets, demanding clean-up of the air from years of emissions from "dirty" motors. Do some web surfing to see photos of the air in Los Angeles in those days. Something had to be done.

Up until that time, the manufacturers had rated their motors with no accessories dragging on the crank, so hp figures on the same type of motor from 1971 to 1972 will show a drastic reduction in published power. Not only was the method changed, the motors were changed also. Compression ratios were dropped to the point of absurdity because there was no premium fuel to be had at the pump. We had to wait in long lines to purchase the only cat-piss fuel that was available at the time. Piston deck height was increased, pistons with deep dishes were used and camshaft timing was retarded via use of a different crank gear on the timing set.

Long story short, none of these 70's motors should be considered for hop-up without a complete tear-down, using different pistons and possibly cutting the block decks to re-set static compression ratio and piston compression height. Timing sets from the same motor family prior to 1972 should also be used to get the camshaft timing back to "hotrod friendly".

 

[matt167]

check the block or the heads for the date code.. easiest to remove the valve cover and just look at the head code.. it will be the first letter of the casting number followed by a number..

C= 1960
D= 1970
E=1980
F=1990
ect...

so if it was say a D2 casting code, it would be a 1972 engine... That style " power by Ford " Valve cover does put it at the late 60's to early 1970's.. about 1975 they used a diffrent design for the " Power By Ford " logo and some engines got plain covers in between..

as for making 200 Hp.. likely the engine does make that.. get rid of the power robbing vintage smog systems and it'll wake right up.. They put smog pumps on cars without a catalitic converter which when used like that will do nothing ( They need the cat to actually serve a function ).. also, in that time period, Ford used timing sets that were 2* retarded, for emissions purposes.. install an aftermarket timing set straight up...

the power ratings seem low because the HP ratings were with all assessory's going, including the smog pump. including what Tech said... but 200 shouldn't be out of reach.. anything higher will be

 

[techinspector1]

also, in that time period, Ford used timing sets that were 2* retarded

Matt, I'm pretty sure it was closer to 8* retard......
Here's a photo of air quality from that period.....
http://www.triplepundit.com/la_smog_440.jpg

 

[torinofan]

:O That is incredibly smoggy. No wonder they wanted to pass laws about pollution, there had been none up until that point I am guessing. Smog does have a way of traveling away from the city and polluting inland as well.

 

[DoubleVision]

They dropped a 302 in those tanks? That`s a big car with big weight. A used to be friend of mine had one I believe was a 73 model and he thought the 400 it had in it could out run the world. He didn`t feel the same after he got smoked by a 305. The funny thing I remember about his car was just about everytime he stomped it, it would always break the distributor shaft.
Thing I remember about these cars was they came "the age of detuned engines" and to meet emissions they were dead players from the factory.

 

[eloc431962]

Yea they put 351 cleveland/ 302/ 351 windsors in these cars and buy your vin# your came with a 351 2v engine most likely a windsor. I had a 72 grand torino sport back in the day 351 cleveland 4v ran real good. Had a great top end . Cole

 

[matt167]

Matt, I'm pretty sure it was closer to 8* retard......
Here's a photo of air quality from that period.....
http://www.triplepundit.com/la_smog_440.jpg

oh.. I just know that era of Ford 6's are about 2* retarded.. so V8's probably did have more

 

[4 Jaw Chuck]

The second "H" in the VIN code specifies a 351C/W, in your case that is a Windsor engine since the engine has Windsor valve covers.

However just looking at the width of the intake and other parts I would guess its a 302-2V, any chance you could pull the air cleaner so we could see the intake manifold?

 

[68-poncho]

the easy way to tell if it's is a 302 or a 351 w is look at the front of the engine where the head bolts to the block.if the heads are close to the timing chain cover it is a 302/289.if there is some where around an inch between the head and timing chain cover it would be a 351.

if your looking for a good high horse power engine try the (i believe)89 to92 roller engine.these would have forged pistons if you want to install a power adder.93 up had hypoturatic(spelling) pistons.

 

[torinofan]

i got some more information this weekend, which should help this cause.

Spark Plugs- Autolites 13/16" socket

Distributor - motorcraft 12127 (couldn't get whole part #)

Exhaust Manifold ID CODES

Drivers Side: C6AE 9431 E, 8C8

Passengers Side: C6OE 9430 E, 8C5
Then it says FoMoCo and the # 26 on it also

air cleaner - fram ca351

thank you so much for your help!!!!!!!!!!


EDIT: im pretty sure its a 302 or a 289 now, but now i would like to find out more about the year and potential hp. from looking on http://www.mustangtek.com/FordDecode.html

since we know from that the mani's are in the 60's we can decode the 8C8 AND 8C5 codes to a 1968 manifold made on Feburary the 5th and 8th. Is this correct? If i am, then does that most likely mean that this 302(or 289 idk) is from 1968 as well ?

 

[68-poncho]

if you remove the starter,there should be the block casting numbers on the engine block.this will tell you the c.i. and the year of production.

 

[torinofan]

I can't really check the starter, but I can be pretty sure that this engine is a 1968 302 or 289 if the exhaust manifolds are that year, right?

 

[torinofan]

ok i'll upload some more pictures, these are much better. The weird thing is the valve covers have 6 bolt places but only 5 are used on the drivers side and the passengers side one is screwed into some piece of metal

^^^^^^What is this??^^^^^^fuel filter or pump??

this is the code for this^^ would you call this the pcm, ecm, bcm or what?

this silver sticker is on the passenger side valve cover, i cant read what it says lol :embarrass

the carb seems to be 4" long by 2& 4/16" wide
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg320/bloodwillflow16/P8011015.jpg

 

[eloc431962]

So far it's a 66 model. Did you get the firing order off the intake? Need the firing order off the intake or the #s where the starter bolts at. Cole