Hot Rod Forum banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,892 Posts
Many years ago while building a '50 Chevy Bel Air I ran across a tune port and installed it. Large learning curve along with ribbing from fellow rodders. Joke was on them...purred along with no troubles. Since then I've don't a half dozen fuel injection swaps (mostly OEM electronics) and very happy with the results. Initial cost is more but recovered over a period of time. Think of your family car, go out on a cold morning, crank it and go.

Lots of aftermarket stuff out there and most EFI systems are now just plug and play.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,672 Posts
I have it on my Car-the learning curve is steep however once you figure it out, install it and get it dialed in you'll wonder why you didn't do it before-
There are a lot of choices out out there, so do your homework before you wade in-I did, and from everything I could tell the Holley systems had the best support. The products are very good-add in the self learning features and the plethora of remote tuners available, amount of available inputs/outputs and I was sold-
I am running the Holley Dominator ecu (mostly because it also controls my 4L80E (the aforementioned inputs/outputs allowed me to even have paddle shift-it offers so much more capability than I am using)-
I have 850 hp and it starts and runs just like my GMC Yukon-if I keep my foot out of it, I've gotten 12 mpg (on the highway!)-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
I just got done removing Holley Sniper EFI system, I spent 3 years trying to get this system sorted out, last draw was when, while idling the, idle jumped for no reason. I installed grounds, isolated wiring, swapped to new alternator this system would not run clean or reliable. I also hired tuners to finish system up with no luck.

In my opinion the Sniper is to susceptible to noise issues, my nickel's worth is pass, I would go with an OEM system and OEM computer.

Here is a link to my post asking for help on Holley forum and a few other ones, the Holley form might be worth your review. Also Holley has no problem replacing many of the parts no questions asked.


Here another few good one's
Multiple Vehicles with Sniper Issues


Here is the link to the forum in general, have a look at how many posting a day of people having issues.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,840 Posts
The one system that has me interested is the Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 EFI, which is a multiport system. The kit is expensive, but includes a new intake and electronically controlled distributor. It seems like a more complete, modern design compared to the older throttle body systems. It does not include a fuel pump or any plumbing required to make an EFI pump work with an old gas tank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
411 Posts
I went EFI on my 67 Fairlane with a 445 FE stroker. I wouldn't go back. Like said, the learning curve is a little steep, but if you understand tuning from a carb perspective it's not too bad. None of the systems are truly "self learning" though. Yes they will try to keep the fuel mix where it's programmed with closed loop o2 control, but you have to program the initial afr mix, and none of the systems self learn idle, or timing so that's all on you too.

I used the Holley terminator x 4150 stealth system on mine. It's a bit more than the sniper, but it has an external ECU which you can put under the dash keeping it away from heat and emi/rfi. I highly recommend that over a sniper if you go Holley.

There are several great tuners available if you'd rather pay someone to set it up too. The Holley site above can recommend them. They do remote tuning so you just hook the car to your laptop and let them have temporary remote access and they can get you set up.

My other hot rod (actually Dad's) is the 67 C10 listed on my signature line. It's injected too, but it's using a gm ECU from a 92 z28 Camaro with chips I burned myself. The Holley system is more user friendly IMO.
 

·
the 'Duracell Project'
Joined
·
2,726 Posts
efi is the best thing to happen to the hotrod community since sliced bread
everyone that i know to convert is happy about it, no cold start issues or stumbling
every spring i'm amazed at how little i do to my truk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
So far, I love my Sniper. Mine is on a 455 Buick and I used the companion HyperSpark ignition system. It is the only engine I've ever built that fired up the first time I turned it over and it has run well with no hiccups for 500 miles.

Here is what you have to remember when installing the system. There are two types of wires in the system, power wires and signal wires. Signal wires are designed to pick up small current signals from sensors like knock, coolant temp, throttle position, O2 , etc. These wires cannot be run close to coil wires, spark plug wires or your starter or alternator. If you do, they will pick up "noise" from the others and it will cause problems. Likewise, there are signal grounds and power grounds. The signal grounds cannot be landed near power grounds for the same reasons. If you follow that advice, plus make good connections and follow the instructions, you likely won't have any problems.

I doubt I ever build another car with a carburetor on it. Today's gas just makes it hard for those to work consistently and correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,892 Posts
I think the biggest hassle with going to fuel injection is the fuel system. Usually an inline pump is noisy and an in tank pump is more of a pain to install without a new tank. For me the benefits still outweigh the cost and installation work. In my area a 15 mile drive can have a change of 5000 feet. The fuel injection really works good for altitude changes.
 

·
Haze gray, no longer underway
Joined
·
7 Posts
I'm considering switching to fuel injection... I've been doing some research but what is y'all's experience? The Good The bad and The ugly....
I got the FAST XFI 2.0 system from Summit, it has a zillion options, but you need to understand what those options are. You can dial in any part of the fuel and timing maps, have traction control, accelerometer, four stage nitrous, and expandable, so you don’t have to set up everything at once, you can add options later. Make sure you have a good engine to put it on. I thought mine was running good, so I dug in. I wanted to change the pan gasket while it was apart, and found a bearing going bad. I had too much sunk into the 1st gen SBC what with the FAST system, instead of getting an LS junkyard runner and swapping it, (I want to drive the car) I refreshed my 389 stroker, down to the rockers and studs, springs, cam, all of it. Woulda been cheaper to swap.
FAST had an awesome forum in 2019 with tons of expertise and knowledge, but then Edelbrock bought them and shut down the forum. They also don’t answer emails, but they’ll still sell you stuff.
Its a hard pill to swallow at that price point, but the adaptability is great. There’s a guy in NorCal who can tune in remotely for $300 and up.
it really required a new fuel system, so an Aeromotive stealth tank was another big cost. The high pressure hose was cheap relative to the rest of it.
if you are up for the challenge, FAST is pretty good, but if you want/need factory support, they aren’t the best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,840 Posts
To simplify the fuel system mods I think I’d like to try using a surge tank/sump like the ones sold by Edelbrock or other companies. I could leave the old mechanical pump in place and the surge tank with high pressure pump would ensure good fuel delivery. It makes even more sense with my dual tank truck, since plumbing a new tank switch and pumps for EFI gets relatively expensive.
 

·
Haze gray, no longer underway
Joined
·
7 Posts
To simplify the fuel system mods I think I’d like to try using a surge tank/sump like the ones sold by Edelbrock or other companies. I could leave the old mechanical pump in place and the surge tank with high pressure pump would ensure good fuel delivery. It makes even more sense with my dual tank truck, since plumbing a new tank switch and pumps for EFI gets relatively expensive.
The mechanical fuel pump won’t provide enough pressure for the EFI system. Steady fuel pressure is critical, and the computer will actually up the pressure in certain situations, which means that the mechanical would just be in the way. If you keep the stock system and route the output of the mechanical pump to the surge tank, that would work.
The surge tanks look like a good idea, I investigated those when I was picking out a system. It’ll mean that you can leave your current tank alone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,550 Posts
First. Run a 60+ psi fuel pump. In tank or gravity fed.
Second run a return line back to the tank. Now your fuel is circulating and staying cool.

You cant talk fuel injection without talking about the injection part. Now I am a fan of port injection. Throttle body injection works great for higher rpm. But port gives better low rpm consistency.
That being said there is a reason most of these companies use TBI. It is "simplier" and looks almost factory.

So from here on lets assume were going with TBI. Now we need to talk about actual performance and flow. Your first gen tbi unit flows around 500cfm stock which will be good for 300 to around 330hp. Good for a street driven 350 with stock vortecs and a rv cam.
Once you get over 330hp well then you get into tuning. Now I have been playing with stock tbi, for a while. With proper tuning with a megasquirt 1(just go 2 today) you can control those larger 454 injectiors better then that 90's ecm ever could to reliably run near 400hp.

Of course once you start really playing with megasquirt you will find just how easy it is to tune and how easy it is to make more power using that stock TBI throttlebody.

It is only after 400hp where you really need to get into the better flowing better atomazation throttlebodies.



Now why not Holley or this nifty self learning thing you heard about? Well as someone who has been screwed more then once by holley when they no longer support older fuel injection I do not recommend them or any company that refuses to support repairing older equipment(tesla, john deer, etc).

The self learning setups may seem simpler. But what they are doing is adjusting within the limits of the sensors. Holley is notorious for doing this having a correction rate near 70%. Which is nuts. That means your 70% off the ideal tune and the unit is correcting. This can only correct so far before you hit the limits of the sensor. Once you hit that limit your going to go lean and thats when carnage happens.


I recommend spending a few days on
Sloppymechanicswiki

Then watching his youtube videos
Then getting on the megasquirt forums

And just reading up on the tech for a month soaking in as much as you can until your a bit confused but confident enough you can take a setup that someone has that is similar to your engine and copy what they have done. Good chance there is a file to get the thing running near perfect when you first fire it.

Of course then the fun really gegins tining and tweaking things. The guy on sloppy mechanics explains stuff in a very real world way. But at some point you just need to play with it yourself. What I like about megasquirt so much is that it saves every tune. So you can have it setup where if you change something and mess up you can go back to the previous tune easily.

Holley (and HP) tend to hide a few things or charge more for the same things megasquirt has been doing for years. Megasquirt gives you so much control it is a bit daunting at first. But once you really get into it your going to find just how easy it is to have multible tunes set up for diffrent elevations, power levels, traction, etc.

Now back to port injection. And yes I am talking about the LS series here. While TBI on that 50's block is good enough. If you really want to make "safe" power your going to find its easier(and eventually cheaper) to go with port injection.

You can fine tune exactly where that fuel goes yet it is still a simple setup with low cost injectiors that dont need to survive the horrible life direct injectiors endure.

As with anything there is a learning curve. HP is still playing catchup to megasquirt. They are miles ahead of any "self learning" setup. But the best bang for your buck is reading up on tons of tech on that diyautotune/megasquirt forums and copying what others have done.

Thats probally a ms2 with a modified stock TBI on your sbc.

I dont look down on guys who run a "self learning setup" because they are at least being open to the benifits of fuel injection.

But I also think those who run those self learning setups are only running them because they dont want to learn themselfs. You know they are leaving power on the table to be safe or running near the limits the thing can correct for. Its not that I dont respect the rides. But once you really get into tuning you will find it is much better to correctly tune a engine then having the thing correcting for you.
 

·
Registered
1971 472-Stocker Hemi Cuda with dule sniper throttle bodies.
Joined
·
6 Posts
I'm considering switching to fuel injection... I've been doing some research but what is y'all's experience? The Good The bad and The ugly....
It's funny you asked, I just joined this forum for that very reason. I bought two holly snipers and put them on my stroker hemi Cuda. I have called holly and MSD their customer services sucks and so does their snipers.
Also if anyone can help me when I tromp on the gas the car bogs down and a VW can beat it.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top