IMHO
I do not visit the Dump. I understood the reason for it, but as you sweetly stated, we can smell it in here. So the decision comes down to either deleting all the posts that get out of hand or letting them have a resting place.
If we leave the Dump, let us try this:

It should not be a place to begin a thread. It truely is a dump and you can't get stuff out of it or add to it. By leaving it there to view, other would see something was moved there and might learn why.

It is a place, that should act as a warning: This was sent to the dump because of unacceptable behavior. It may even be a signal to some that this is what we mean by control. We are not deleting your voice, just saying it is unacceptable. Three dumps could constitute a strike, either one, two, or three

If I sent something to the dump, I would have to PM the person I dumped and explain why. It may be for bad language, it may be for trollish tendancies, it may be for attitude. But they would know it was my call. Thier course of action would be to reply to me or Jon if they found me unfair.

That is the only way I would keep the Dump or something close to it. I'd like to say eliminate the thing, but how would you control the waste we would have in other threads?

 

Personally, I say we keep the Dump. I'd rather have it then not. It can be amusing sometimes. But it has to be policed and actions taken when abused. I'm with you on the thought that if I don't like what's being discussed or what is said - just ignore the post.

I agree with point number 3:

3. The Dump supports free speech. Often, to the point of extreme liberalism. We do this for the same reason that the American national guard comes out to protect the Ku Klux Klan: the short-term effects of too much free speech are much easier to deal with than the long-term effects of not enough free speech.

 

I agree with what Madd said, try it for awhile and see how it works.

It is going to take some experimenting.

Troy

 

Personally I never visit the dump, but I like Madd's idea about how to handle it. Make is a warning that you are acting inappropriately if your thread is dumped. There should be no need to add a thread to the dump.

Chris

 

Even though I only go to the dump once in a great while, I think it should be kept. There's a lot of other issues that are actually cool to read. Like jokes, or just wierd stuff that's really off topic.

 

OK, great input so far -- as for mods notifying users when their threads are Dumped, I think that's a solid idea.

It's been mentioned before that we shouldn't allow threads to be started in the Dump, just moved there when they get out of hand. One of the effects of this that I think we would experience is an increase in Dump-like threads started in the Lounge. You might even have people starting threads in the Lounge that they know will be Dumped, simply because they have no other place to put them. This doesn't mean it won't work, just something to keep in mind.


If you've already typed out your opinions on the Dump in another thread, please take a minute or two to copy-and-paste your post into this thread, so we can get everyone's opinion in one place.

 

DUMP

i have chosen to visit and participate less due to negative replies, etc. i do NOT visit the Dump. i dont want or need any more BS in my little world. i totally agree with Madd`s view on this. once in the Dump,no adding to the subject and user is warned. just my old .02

 

For what it's worth, here's my opinion.

Delete the dump, we have two forums called "General Rodding Tech" and the "Lounge" for casual conversations and opinions. Our category specific forums are above reproach. Anything that doesn't belong in those categories does not belong on this website, this is Hotrodders.com not Jerry Springer. If you have an emotional/substance abuse problem then perhaps talking about it on HR.com is not the right place for you or the rest of us. If you have a confident then feel free to avail yourself with the PM feature and talk with another in private but please leave those of us interested in cars alone.

You don't keep trash for the rest of your life piled in the corner of your yard do you? Of course not, what would the neighbors think. Problem is now we are dealing with people dumping trash by the truck load in your yard. If you choose you could have the rubbish removed once a week and live with the smell for the other 6 days a week...or...you could move the dump out of your yard altogether.

The simple fact is that if you give people a place to dump their garbage they will be back to fill up your yard and your left to clean up the mess and deal with the rodent plague. Either you bag it, can it and send it from whence it came or you store it like a precious jewel and attract every scumbag rat from the four corners to come and leave a present in your yard. Can anyone here honestly say the dump serves a useful purpose other than a repository for useless trash? Do not let a good joke get misidentified as dump material, there is a big difference, profanity doesn't qualify a post either. Lets not forget why the dump was created in the first place, for a troll to play in.

If you like, leave the legacy...but you better have enough rodent traps and be willing to shovel everyday. Looks to me like one rodent told all of his friends where the biggest dump in the world is located and they are having a party.

The decision really is whether or not you want HR.com to be the host. It's that simple.

 

I dont tolerate the dump, it reaks to much of a good friend we all love to hate...Dave. In my opinion, lets dump the dump and put the "bad" topics in a safe place where only the moderators or selected people can view it. In otherwords, ban the dump from the "troublemakers" and allow only the "mature" and "good" people use it. That makes it less likely to be tampered with and in the long run, we all have a garbage area.

I was always told i was a speaker, but i never i was THAT good.


HRK(Alex)

 

Our category specific forums are above reproach. Anything that doesn't belong in those categories does not belong on this website, this is Hotrodders.com not Jerry Springer.

You go Chuck! Well personally I would be happy to see the dump go but I don't think that it's the real problem. We never had that much of a problem with it before because it couldn't filter out onto the rest of the board. The problem we have now is that someone like Nova Lover!!!! posts something rediculous in the middle of a good thread in say the 'Engine' forum and everybody's freaked out. The guy who started the thread hoping for help is pissed, the guys trying to help are pissed, and us moderators can't even do anything but send the whole thread to the dump which screws everybody involved except the troll. This is the exact kind of situation we were able to control on the old board so good peoples threads weren't ruined and the trolls kept to the dump. I don't recall too many people complaining about the dump for the last couple of months before we lost our moderator abilities. Just my 2cents.

 

Jon;

If you don't keep the Dump, then trolls will simply start up in the Lounge. You will never stop trolls from coming to this board, any more than you will get them to read posting guidelines. It's simple to see that the more publicity that HR.com gets as a place that doesn't tolerate trolls, the more trolls will show up to test it.

At least if the colorful banter is moved to the dump, it doesn't flood the other departments. I think that threads moved to , or started in the dump, should have a life of seven to ten days. Trolls and arguments seldom last that long. After the thread is closed, I see no reason to archive it, only to be dredged up at a later date.

Just my $.02, kitkar

 

I personally don't care for THE DUMP either. I think it just encourages bad behavior, provides a place for trolls, foul langauge, disrespect and so on. Seldom does anything in THE DUMP pertain to an automotive site, anyway.
If you decide to keep THE DUMP, then I agree with Madd Syntst and use it to punish those who refuse to obey the policies that govern this site. Three strikes and you're out!
If you keep THE DUMP, I suggest that you not include it in the NEW POSTS. Let it stand alone so that a member has to go specifically perform a function to get there.
Also, allow any posts in THE DUMP to automatically delete after a period of say 3 days. There is no sense to see "F**K Everyone" as we did recently with the troll(s) for days on end.
When I come to this site, I go directly to MY PROFILE to check for posts on threads that I participated in. I do not care to see how many dumb posts have been made in THE DUMP.
Thanks for allowing us to give our imput.

 

This is a tough one, let me eat on it and ill get back.

 

I think I'm with 4Jaw on this, but Madd has some good points as well. Possibly, we could use Chucks adage of hauling off the garbage on a regular basis. IE, clean it out ever other day so the smell does not build up so much. Also, I like the ideal of not allowing any responses to a thread. Once posted it dies on the vine and has a day of mourning and a day of funeral!! Madd's ideal of the PM is great as long as there is a way of blocking an onslaught such as Chuck experienced. The Dumper has to have a firewall available to block out an overzealous Dumpee.

Trees

 

I see a trend here. More of a class war then anything. I've seen this type of thing destroy churches, car clubs, fraternities and communities. Most of the people who say they never visit the dump, say the dump should go - TRUE - Most of what's in the dump is worthless as teats on a boar even for entertainment. Visiting the dump is kind of like a straight churchmouse visiting an adult book store, topless bar or gay nightclub to find out a little more about what they don't like. Why entertain it? I don't see the dump as a HUGE problem. Driveling trolls jumping into a legit forum topic IS the problem and it won't stop by simply trashing the dump. What the troll-dump thing has morphed into lately, the way I see it, is simply another old moot political scenario that's been getting WAY too much attention lately. It's become a way for birds of a "feather to flock together" with positive affirmations, one side or the other. Rampant frothing unchecked Conservatism Vs. idiotic annoying Liberalism or, an American's so-called right to "Freedom of Speech," vs. Dudley Dooright's version of "Totalitarianism" - yawn.... If you get rid of the dump that's just ducky by me, but first you had better make it impossible, if THAT'S possible, for the trolls that are so inclined to trample the flora around here and like a few of you have so eloquently stated, "spew their garbage onto other more sensible topics." That is the ONLY way to stem the flow.

What the hey... Get rid of this damn dump, and institute a three strikes you're out law. I'm about as ticked with this perpetual whining as I am with the trolls themselves.

Get it done and let's get on with life here, if THAT'S possible... :embarrass

signed: Disgruntled Carnut in Oregon

 

I say do away with the dump. If threads that are off color get started in the lounge stop them before they get out of hand. After awhile people will learn or leave. Yes there is the freedom of speech issues, etc, etc, etc. But some stuff does not need to be kept for future use or for people to look back on. Some of the stuff that gets posted has no useful purpose what-so-ever. When a troll comes on here and starts in with the racial remarks, foul language, or whatever else the mods need to know when to step in and say enough is enough. Any more after that then lock the thread. It will still be there to read but will be buried in a day or so. And with not being able to post in it, then it will not resurface and rear its ugly head. But the rules need to be set in concrete between the Administrator and the moderators as to how far to let it go. Hotrodders.com has set forth rules and the rules are to be read by everyone. especially the newbies. When the rules get broken you get a warning. This is where the three strike rule should come into effect. After the third warning, you are out of here. The rules are not that tough that someone cannot catch on after getting warned twice. I also think that banishment should be permanent. Banning a person permanently will not make or break this website nor will it effect the banned person for life. Once the word gets out in the WWW that Hotrodders does not tolerate trolls and troublemakers then the class of people that joins will be top notch. As I said before I frequent other sites. One of them is ChevyTalk. The rules and regulations on that site are strict but not to the point that someone with a very low IQ could not understand. If a thread gets started that is racial a warning is put out by the mods. If it progresses to the point that hostility takes over rational conversation and discussion then it is stopped and locked. Like I said, the threads get locked and eventually get buried but very rarely do they get deleted unless they are really off color. It seems to work very well. Some of the members have trouble with it but overall it works. Lately on Hotrodders quite a few members have left because of the actions of others on here. What is not right is that the ones that cause the trouble are the ones that stay and drive off the older members. This should not be. When older members start to leave because of the actions of new members then there is a major glitch that really needs to be addressed. It would be different if it was only one older member, but there is quite a few. And it has been brought to the boards attention what the problems seem to be. But anyways that is my opinion. What I vote for is the three strike rule, banish the dump, and permanent banishment of a member, their photo album, and profile from the site if they get three strikes.

One other thought also...would it be possible to add another forum for just messages. What I mean is the messages that are pin or locked at the top of all the forums maybe we could have just a forum for special messages like that. I know when I go to the Lounge there are a few locked at the top and you have to scroll down to find the first thread. On the other forums there are two or three locked at the top. If all of these could be combined it would clean up the other forums. Just an afterthought.

Kevin:mwink:

 

Yeh, Madd has some good points, and chuck does to.I like trees idea also.

My self, I can do without the Dump, But there needs to be someplace to Dump the garbage.

Keep the ideas coming, and combine all the good points.

Troy-curt

 

i like the 3 strike dumped deal, we need the dump, but couldn't we dump the dump threads like after 3 days or so??? no need for it to sit and fester......maybe the dump threads could be hacked so that they don't show up on the daily topics list??? that way the cream stays on top.... maybe no threads could be originated in the dump, actually, i see no need to start a thread there, unless it is to talk crap. wait, we might need it.... what if we have to flounce someone, we don't wanna do it on the front yard.....

 

okay, good deal...I just looked in the dump.
I saw 6 of dingers spam threads...and they make me laugh...
Just because he won't stop....
other than that there aren't too many things in there I need to read that makes me want to fight to keep the dump!
But, I have stuff around the house I don't exactly need and it comes in useful sometimes....
As far as the dump goes or the whole board for that matter....
If I read something about me that is true that I don't like...
well, tough...that's my problem....
If I read something about me that isn't true...
I send Jon a pm
If I read something that has nothing to do with me I don't like...
I hit the little thing on my screen that says back....
OOOHHH WHAT....NOOOOOO!!!!!
Yeah, imagine that...instead of pissing someone off or edging the trolls on..I just go on to the next page and continue life.....
Don't blame the moderators or Jon, every member on this board that ever started a fight or helped to continue a fight is well at blame too!!!!

 

I havn't been here long enough to get the full affect of what has been going on here at the boards,but I have seen enough to get the basics of the problems.

I would have to agree with:

No replies to threads that have been dumped.

No new threads in the Dump.

Dump emptied after a few days.

3 strikes and your out.

Dump threads not appearing in "new posts" function.

In my opinion the Dump is a necessity.You have to put the bad somewhere. At least this way anyone that hasn't grasped the concept of the rules would have a definite example of what will not be tolerated on the boards.

 

I really think that if you lock the threads on the dump and someone still has an axe to grind they will just open another thread to try and further their case. I check the dump on occasion for entertainment,and besides, it makes me feel smarter. I also think a certain level of civility should be maintained by all members. My kids are not old enough to be on here yet,but I get tired of the P*R*O*F*A*N*I*T*Y and $tuff like that. Just because you get words past a software censor does not change the words. I vote to keep the dump, but clean out posts after about 7 days. I was on vacation when the stoned pup saga occurred and would not have known what happened without looking in the dump. It also gives me some insight on the people that post there. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. USA1

 

Well, I don't currently have time too read all of the posts, but I'll simply say that the dump should stay for negative posts, and so we can look and see how fiasco's started. I also think that we shouldn't be able to post in the dump. I used too think it was kind of like the lounge, but now see a cut and clean difference. nuff said, that's my quick 2 cents.

 

Good morning Jon,

You've got a great board, with lots of great posters. I'm too busy to spend much time here right now but I must respond to this thread.

I will warn you, right up front, that I have seen good boards ruined by the trolls. I don't want to see that happen again.

First of all, don't fall for the pitiful whining of the trolls about Freedom of Speech. That's pure garbage. You started this place so YOU make the rules, not some internet-addicted 12-year old that has no life. Trolls are like children, they will test your limits. Set the rules and stick with them. I'm sure you will have the full support of everyone here who is interested in making a positive contribution.

Trolls have thousands of boards they can go to where they can act stupid all day and all night. If they want Freedom of Speech, they can even start their own board. Wanna bet how many people would even waste their time visiting such a place?

Here's a couple questions to put this in perspective:


Would you invite someone into your house who insulted your friends?

No! You would throw them out.


Would you allow visitors to your house spray graffiti on all your walls because they demand Freedom of Speech?

Again, no. You would give them the quick boot.


Same thing applies to this board. It's your virtual home. You make the rules. If you don't enforce rules you will eventually end up with mostly trolls. The decent, professional, helpful posters will move on.

Btw, three strikes is very generous to give to trolls. That's two more than I would give them. If they can't behave that's their problem, not yours.

Now reading through the other posts it appears that moderators cannot edit posts. That's too bad. Moderators need to have the power to edit or delete a troll's post without sending a whole good thread to the dump. Is that feature not available with this particular type of board software?

Dump the dump before the trolls turn the whole board into a dump.

Thanks for listening.

 

I am a "Newbie" here

But, I'd like to suggest that the dump be used by admin/moderators to move crap over to. Then, they can be replied to there. No direct posting by members should be allowed there.
Then you set it up that anyone with "x" amount of threads started by them moved to the dump be sanctioned in some manner. This will help you track the ones who need to be spanked... in a bad way. Not the fun way.
JMO

 

I don't like the dump but it has it's usefulness. A good place to "dump" the topics that don't belong in the lounge or anywhere else on the board, such as "why do you guys hate imports", etc. My 2 cents worth:
1.Leave the dump, censor the profanity and name calling, that's for kids.
2. A lot of people ar argumentive in nature, some of these are a bit amusing to read, again see number 1. The dump is a good place to see these "why Fords will never outrun a Chevy" type of posts.
3. Spam, having a place for a mod to send it, then have Jon change the hyperlink to another, such as "rules for posting". If we wanted that here, make them pay for it. Money, and lots of it.
4.Stiking out, 1 warning for spam, 2nd time and you're out of here, profanity, one warning, 2nd time a suspension, 3rd time permanently gone. I can only imagine the type of work Jon is doing now to block these people, why make this a full time job. He's got enough to do, let's keep this in mind, maybe a mod or two could fill in.
5. Limit the page numbers in the dump, say 10 pages, then they're deleted. Why keep this garbage around?
This has been a great site, there are times when I feel acion hasn't been taken quickly enough, there are times when I feel we've been to quick to jump someone, mostly newbies, a link to the search engine or maybe doing a little search for them and a p.m. to help out. When a person's first question is "how many horse does my 350 sbc make in my Pinto" give him a break, a little guidance and take it from there as to how he/she reacts.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth. Dan