This is my 383 stroker motor from Jasper. I want to add more Hp . My warranty ends in 6 months so that will give me time to save a few bucks for the add-ons. this is what I know about motor , 9.4:1 , HP rod bolts nuts, double roller timing chain, high vol. oil pump flat top hypereutectic pistons , molly rings performance cyl. heads 76cc com. chamber stainless steel valves 2.02 intake , 1.60 ex. class 2 cam .050 duration 224' intake 234 ex. advertised dur. 298 intake 304 ex. , cam lift .311 intake .325 ex. ....valve lift .465 intake .488 ex. ....lobe center 107 intake 117 ex. they have on spec. sheet operating range @ 2200-5500 rpm. I have a eddlebrock air gap with a holly 600......I want to add as much Hp as I can using pump gas and not getting into pistons....willing to change cam and heads . I picked up car Friday and sitting in garage over night it seems to have a very small leak at front main seal ....a few drops on the floor. it does have lots of torque .....but it really seems to lack at hp...they advertise 385 hp and it seems maybe not. it does have a fair lope but it seems to hesitate at a 1st gear roll and a close to full throttle push on the peddle.....this is not a daily driver it is my bucket list car. out for burgers or cruising with wife or grandson.....any help would be very much appreciated .....if I'm missing any info. let me know and I'll do my best to find it ......
1971 el camino
1971 el camino
That's way out of my league...I'll stick to top end stuff ..heads, cam....a top end kit ......they are pretty cool though....may be down the line a bit.....thanks for the input.........
Ron
That's way out of my league...I'll stick to top end stuff ..heads, cam....a top end kit ......they are pretty cool though....may be down the line a bit.....thanks for the input.........
Ron
I don't think a smallish 600 holley is a real problem, but an area for improvement. Do you think you have it tuned wrong perhaps? Wrong jets or timing curve..
What can you do, say go for the 420hp rpm package, but that is not going to feel any different.
Go to an area of road with dense tree lines on both sides. Then your mind will have a background to impose a strong sensation of acceleration. Come back and tell us if that is better.
What can you do, say go for the 420hp rpm package, but that is not going to feel any different.
Go to an area of road with dense tree lines on both sides. Then your mind will have a background to impose a strong sensation of acceleration. Come back and tell us if that is better.
1971 el camino
I was thinking the timing myself.....when I picked up the car I took it for a drive came back to shop and when I shut it off it dieseled ....first thought was timing they did a little tweaking and not dieseling any longer but I'm a little Leary on timing still. The carb. came off the 350 that was on the 350 pulled from elkie and it's been a while and I have not owned the car for about 5 months but I don't recall it bogging at a full throttle push ..it may have but I can't recall. I have an area near here with tall pines on both sides I'll get out in a bit ( after a few honey do's) and see what goes....ya know the wife says it's much faster then the 350 I know it has very good torque ....much better then the old 350. I got up on the freeway yesterday and at a good 40 mph roll it took off like a bat outa-hell when I mashed on pedel....and I don't recall any hesitation ...funny thing though a little rice burner thought I was wanting to race him on freeway ( he was behind me on ramp ) at about 70 mph he passed me like I was standing still...wow he was fast lolol.....I'll pay more attention to what I'm getting from throttle response and get back to you.....Thanks to all for input.....
Ron
I was thinking the timing myself.....when I picked up the car I took it for a drive came back to shop and when I shut it off it dieseled ....first thought was timing they did a little tweaking and not dieseling any longer but I'm a little Leary on timing still. The carb. came off the 350 that was on the 350 pulled from elkie and it's been a while and I have not owned the car for about 5 months but I don't recall it bogging at a full throttle push ..it may have but I can't recall. I have an area near here with tall pines on both sides I'll get out in a bit ( after a few honey do's) and see what goes....ya know the wife says it's much faster then the 350 I know it has very good torque ....much better then the old 350. I got up on the freeway yesterday and at a good 40 mph roll it took off like a bat outa-hell when I mashed on pedel....and I don't recall any hesitation ...funny thing though a little rice burner thought I was wanting to race him on freeway ( he was behind me on ramp ) at about 70 mph he passed me like I was standing still...wow he was fast lolol.....I'll pay more attention to what I'm getting from throttle response and get back to you.....Thanks to all for input.....
Ron
1971 el camino
On spec sheet from Jasper it says there #'s were taken with a 750 cfm edelbrock carb .....does it matter much with me running the 600 that came off the old 350 ?
On spec sheet from Jasper it says there #'s were taken with a 750 cfm edelbrock carb .....does it matter much with me running the 600 that came off the old 350 ?
1971 el camino
I'm all that ......maybe it just sounds intimidating.....I know going thru some of the performance sites I've seen the kits and really did not pay much attention maybe I need to .....who or which mfg. do you think puts out the best kit ? any feed back or any sites I can check out ....and maybe easier then heads cam and so on....less tear down .....give me a site to check out .....thanks for the eye opener .....
Ron
I'm all that ......maybe it just sounds intimidating.....I know going thru some of the performance sites I've seen the kits and really did not pay much attention maybe I need to .....who or which mfg. do you think puts out the best kit ? any feed back or any sites I can check out ....and maybe easier then heads cam and so on....less tear down .....give me a site to check out .....thanks for the eye opener .....
Ron
Would really help to know your timing specs, initial timing and total mechanical timing, your tuning shop my just have set things up ultra safe or didn't even bother to give the distributor a performance advance curve tune-up.
What distributor do you have??
I also feel a 750 Holley would make a difference you could feel on the top end of the rpm range, especially 4000 rpm and up. If the 600 has never been performance tuned, it may not even be opening all the way on the secondary's either. 600 Holleys out-of-the-box are often set up with way too stiff a secondary spring on the rear barrels. I don't do Edelbrocks, don't like them.
Would help to know exactly what head you have now, i.e. who made them, what are the intake runner volumes??
What distributor do you have??
I also feel a 750 Holley would make a difference you could feel on the top end of the rpm range, especially 4000 rpm and up. If the 600 has never been performance tuned, it may not even be opening all the way on the secondary's either. 600 Holleys out-of-the-box are often set up with way too stiff a secondary spring on the rear barrels. I don't do Edelbrocks, don't like them.
Would help to know exactly what head you have now, i.e. who made them, what are the intake runner volumes??
1971 el camino
HEI dist. stock........as far as a performance tune ....I will bet my bottom dollar ...no way....I just went out to look under hood for some type of # on the heads but can not see a thing. I'm going off a spec. sheet I pulled from the jasper site . They don't seem to get very detailed .On machining specs. it shows 3 angle valve seat , sq. deck of block chamfered oil holes in crank and heads it just says High performance cyl. heads with 76 cc combustion chambers . 4 bolt main....3000-4000 torque response 2200 to 5500 oper. range. I will get in touch with shop on Monday to get this info. and there is a performance shop/ builder in town.....would it be worth it to take a stop by his shop and explain my concerns. the installer of my motor ...there are great people but I don't think they are big performance people . I was wondering when I picked up car it was dieseling and the installer turned down Idle on carb. I was and still am very concerned with timing ...I have learned enough that pre-det kills.......they asked me what I thought and I told them I think it matters more what you think ...your the installer builder. is it right ?.......anyway......let me know what info you need and the holly is a used carb.....it's on the motor now. thanks a ton
Ron
HEI dist. stock........as far as a performance tune ....I will bet my bottom dollar ...no way....I just went out to look under hood for some type of # on the heads but can not see a thing. I'm going off a spec. sheet I pulled from the jasper site . They don't seem to get very detailed .On machining specs. it shows 3 angle valve seat , sq. deck of block chamfered oil holes in crank and heads it just says High performance cyl. heads with 76 cc combustion chambers . 4 bolt main....3000-4000 torque response 2200 to 5500 oper. range. I will get in touch with shop on Monday to get this info. and there is a performance shop/ builder in town.....would it be worth it to take a stop by his shop and explain my concerns. the installer of my motor ...there are great people but I don't think they are big performance people . I was wondering when I picked up car it was dieseling and the installer turned down Idle on carb. I was and still am very concerned with timing ...I have learned enough that pre-det kills.......they asked me what I thought and I told them I think it matters more what you think ...your the installer builder. is it right ?.......anyway......let me know what info you need and the holly is a used carb.....it's on the motor now. thanks a ton
Ron
I took a look at the Jasper site for a bit just now, If I were to guess based off wording, and the wording for a similar performance 350 engine, it looks as if they are using something like World Products SR Torquer heads, which are available with 67 or 76 cc chambers. The 67cc used on the 350's is the tip-off, just about the only head anyone makes that is 67cc is World Products' SR's and Brodix aluminum.
If that is what they are, they are not really a "performance" head, barely considered an mild performance head I guess you could say. New, slightly improved versions of 1970's smogger heads, which is what the SR(Stock Replacement) stands for, having 2.02" valves makes them "performance" heads.
Better heads could likely do a lot for you, the 420 hp 383 Jasper sells is just the exact same engine you have, with Edelbrock Aluminum heads on it, probably E-Tecs.
Stock HEI's have horrible advance curves for performance engines, typically too much advance mechanism travel, and too slow an advance rate....they need to be recurved and the advance travel limited to get them correct...you a giving a good bit of power away here also, I'd bet money on it.
If that is what they are, they are not really a "performance" head, barely considered an mild performance head I guess you could say. New, slightly improved versions of 1970's smogger heads, which is what the SR(Stock Replacement) stands for, having 2.02" valves makes them "performance" heads.
Better heads could likely do a lot for you, the 420 hp 383 Jasper sells is just the exact same engine you have, with Edelbrock Aluminum heads on it, probably E-Tecs.
Stock HEI's have horrible advance curves for performance engines, typically too much advance mechanism travel, and too slow an advance rate....they need to be recurved and the advance travel limited to get them correct...you a giving a good bit of power away here also, I'd bet money on it.
If I were to build a street motor today, it would have a blower (Blower Drive Service 6-71) bolted on top with two four-barrel blower carbs.
Here are the aspects of the build that I would include:
*Forged pistons.
*Increased ring end gap or gapless rings.
*8.0:1 to 8.5:1 static compression ratio.
*Two drive keyways on the crank snout.
*1 3/4" to 1 7/8" headers on a 383.
*Steel crank hub or aftermarket damper (no cast iron).
*MSD 6-BTM Boost Timing Master spark control.
*Water/alcohol injection.
I would not convert a naturally-aspirated motor over to a blower without dis-assembling and rebuilding with the right parts and clearances. Do it once and do it right.
The ricer that drove around you was likely turbo'd at 15-20 psi and intercooled.
The heads on your crate motor are likely Engine Quest castings. Changing to Pro-Filer 195 aluminum heads with 70cc chambers will put you at a 10.3:1 SCR, just right for aluminum heads and pump gas. I'd use a cam with an intake duration somewhere between 225 and 230 @0.050" tappet lift, RPM intake manifold, 4" x 14" air cleaner assembly, 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" long-tube tuned headers with an X or H pipe immediately after the collectors. Use the information in this tutorial to validate your harmonic damper......
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Determining_top_dead_center
For ignition timing, put 18 degrees in at the crank and 16 degrees in at the weights, all in by 2800 rpm's.
If the motor kicks back against the starter due to the agressive ignition lead when firing it up, splice in a 15 amp (Normally Closed) push-button switch to the coil hot wire. Mount the push button switch on the left of the steering wheel to operate with your left hand. Push the button with your left hand to open the circuit and disable the coil, while at the same time turning the key switch with your right hand. The motor will begin winding up with no strain on any parts. Release both switches at the same time and the motor will be idling.
.
Here are the aspects of the build that I would include:
*Forged pistons.
*Increased ring end gap or gapless rings.
*8.0:1 to 8.5:1 static compression ratio.
*Two drive keyways on the crank snout.
*1 3/4" to 1 7/8" headers on a 383.
*Steel crank hub or aftermarket damper (no cast iron).
*MSD 6-BTM Boost Timing Master spark control.
*Water/alcohol injection.
I would not convert a naturally-aspirated motor over to a blower without dis-assembling and rebuilding with the right parts and clearances. Do it once and do it right.
The ricer that drove around you was likely turbo'd at 15-20 psi and intercooled.
The heads on your crate motor are likely Engine Quest castings. Changing to Pro-Filer 195 aluminum heads with 70cc chambers will put you at a 10.3:1 SCR, just right for aluminum heads and pump gas. I'd use a cam with an intake duration somewhere between 225 and 230 @0.050" tappet lift, RPM intake manifold, 4" x 14" air cleaner assembly, 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" long-tube tuned headers with an X or H pipe immediately after the collectors. Use the information in this tutorial to validate your harmonic damper......
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Determining_top_dead_center
For ignition timing, put 18 degrees in at the crank and 16 degrees in at the weights, all in by 2800 rpm's.
If the motor kicks back against the starter due to the agressive ignition lead when firing it up, splice in a 15 amp (Normally Closed) push-button switch to the coil hot wire. Mount the push button switch on the left of the steering wheel to operate with your left hand. Push the button with your left hand to open the circuit and disable the coil, while at the same time turning the key switch with your right hand. The motor will begin winding up with no strain on any parts. Release both switches at the same time and the motor will be idling.
.
1971 el camino
I also downloaded the spec. for the 420 hp. and you are right on that. they have the alum. heads and it looks to have a different cam. I want to go with a assembled set of alum. heads roller rocker 1.5 or 1.6 ? which heads ? and sence I'll have it tore down what cam can I use ? and as far as dist. what do I look at ? I have seen that MSD makes that little insert for the dist . is that what you are talking about ? I know the motor has more in it ...6 months or 8000 miles my warranty is up and at that time I should have collected my parts for the build. let me know about heads ,cam and dist . thanks
Ron
LOLOLOL ya the guy in the rice burner .....I saw him falling back in my rear view mirror .....next thing ...sounded like a f-18 going in for a bomb run..........he flew past me.....and I still have that 350 sitting on stand in garage ......don't know rather to build or refresh and save it for my 1986 chevy K10....a real nice rig.....I'll post a few photos......I wanna do all of this all I need to do find the money first I guess......heads cam dist first off though.
Thanks my friends
Ron
I also downloaded the spec. for the 420 hp. and you are right on that. they have the alum. heads and it looks to have a different cam. I want to go with a assembled set of alum. heads roller rocker 1.5 or 1.6 ? which heads ? and sence I'll have it tore down what cam can I use ? and as far as dist. what do I look at ? I have seen that MSD makes that little insert for the dist . is that what you are talking about ? I know the motor has more in it ...6 months or 8000 miles my warranty is up and at that time I should have collected my parts for the build. let me know about heads ,cam and dist . thanks
Ron
LOLOLOL ya the guy in the rice burner .....I saw him falling back in my rear view mirror .....next thing ...sounded like a f-18 going in for a bomb run..........he flew past me.....and I still have that 350 sitting on stand in garage ......don't know rather to build or refresh and save it for my 1986 chevy K10....a real nice rig.....I'll post a few photos......I wanna do all of this all I need to do find the money first I guess......heads cam dist first off though.
Thanks my friends
Ron
Read here about what you need to know about the HEI, performance tuning starts about Section 14 : http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Hot_rodding_the_HEI_distributor
1971 el camino
My bad....I did not read entire post.....ok I got it...most of it ....I get the heads ...cam....but I'm not experienced enough to understand the dist. end of it. but....I have a few friends who can explain this and help me to get this done.....I have also been talking to some local builders about the 350 on stand in garage who would be more then happy to help me with this. the heads you mentioned .....are these complete ? should I go 1.5 or 1.6 on rockers ? and I'm thinking I'll have to do the push rods using the little plastic geometry type checker ? I hope I'm asking the right questions. I have hooker long tube with no crossover at all......I'm going to go over your post again and ask more questions ......sorry ..I did not read entire post
Ron
My bad....I did not read entire post.....ok I got it...most of it ....I get the heads ...cam....but I'm not experienced enough to understand the dist. end of it. but....I have a few friends who can explain this and help me to get this done.....I have also been talking to some local builders about the 350 on stand in garage who would be more then happy to help me with this. the heads you mentioned .....are these complete ? should I go 1.5 or 1.6 on rockers ? and I'm thinking I'll have to do the push rods using the little plastic geometry type checker ? I hope I'm asking the right questions. I have hooker long tube with no crossover at all......I'm going to go over your post again and ask more questions ......sorry ..I did not read entire post
Ron
.
. WHICH "AirGap" intake do you have? Performer or Performer RPM? Your engine deserves the Performer RPM AirGap... your disappointment in the engine may be coming from the 600 CFM carb... it's prolly whacking off your power above 5,000 RPMs... go ahead and find a swap meet Holley 750 and put it on there... with that cam and open chamber heads, your engine should be pulling fairly strongly right up to 6500 RPMs... also, make sure you have at least 1" of clearance between carb. top and air cleaner lid... and need headers and true 2 1/2" - 3" dual exhaust... can easily lose 100-200 HP in a stock exhaust system... basically, trying to get the 'as installed' engine putting out nearly the same HP/torque it had on the engine dyno stand...
. Good flowing USA made aluminum heads at low price. I'd go 1.6 stock style Comp rocker arms (no China). 'Z28 spec.' valve springs:
SBC 23 Degree Cylinder Heads
. Engine build using your size 224/234 cam:
Low Budget Chevy 350 Small Block Engine Build - Classic Trucks Magazine All Pages
. Back in the day, GM always put 11:1 compression ratio with that size cam... I like to see at least 10-10.5:1, so it doesn't act soggy...
. WHICH "AirGap" intake do you have? Performer or Performer RPM? Your engine deserves the Performer RPM AirGap... your disappointment in the engine may be coming from the 600 CFM carb... it's prolly whacking off your power above 5,000 RPMs... go ahead and find a swap meet Holley 750 and put it on there... with that cam and open chamber heads, your engine should be pulling fairly strongly right up to 6500 RPMs... also, make sure you have at least 1" of clearance between carb. top and air cleaner lid... and need headers and true 2 1/2" - 3" dual exhaust... can easily lose 100-200 HP in a stock exhaust system... basically, trying to get the 'as installed' engine putting out nearly the same HP/torque it had on the engine dyno stand...
. Good flowing USA made aluminum heads at low price. I'd go 1.6 stock style Comp rocker arms (no China). 'Z28 spec.' valve springs:
SBC 23 Degree Cylinder Heads
. Engine build using your size 224/234 cam:
Low Budget Chevy 350 Small Block Engine Build - Classic Trucks Magazine All Pages
. Back in the day, GM always put 11:1 compression ratio with that size cam... I like to see at least 10-10.5:1, so it doesn't act soggy...
.
. Yeah, those heads are just meant to be an easy alternative to cleaning/magging/repairing/rebuilding stock heads ... at a competitive price to doing that... and EPA approved...
. Yeah, those heads are just meant to be an easy alternative to cleaning/magging/repairing/rebuilding stock heads ... at a competitive price to doing that... and EPA approved...
1971 el camino
It is the RPM performer air gap......and the carb is the old 600 that came off of the 350 that was in the elkie. on a EPS performer manifold.
It is the RPM performer air gap......and the carb is the old 600 that came off of the 350 that was in the elkie. on a EPS performer manifold.
I'm new to the forum however if I may I've used a Comp Cams xtream energy cam part# 12-246-3 along with a set of world products sportsman II heads with a 64cc chamber @ 9.5 comp ratio on pump gas and run 12:46 @ 106 and drive it on the street. This is one combination in a 30 over 350 motor that has worked for me. Maybe it'll work for you in your 383. By the way I'm swapping out the 350 for a 383 myself.
1971 el camino
I have the 350 30 over that came out of the elkie sitting on stand ....I was wondering what to do with it now I have a good proven Idea.....thanks for that....I want to put the 350 in my 1986 k10 but the 350 in it is bullet proof at this point..I fogged the 350 and turn it every now and again until I get ready to do something with it. The 383 ....it feels like I have a tiger in a bag it wants to go but but it even has a hard time breaking lose a set of 255/60r15's non- posi......my own personal exp. with Jasper for the motor ......well.....warranty work they are so far Johnny on the spot but I have a small leak at front seal and I just picked up car Thursday evening so shop says to bring back at 500 oil change and we'll see what gives....but the first motor was junk ...they had to pull it and send it back ....main bearings were bad. 2nd motor with front main small leak ...we'll see what happens.....I don't think I would buy Jasper again....there are others out there that seem to put out better stuff......good luck
I have the 350 30 over that came out of the elkie sitting on stand ....I was wondering what to do with it now I have a good proven Idea.....thanks for that....I want to put the 350 in my 1986 k10 but the 350 in it is bullet proof at this point..I fogged the 350 and turn it every now and again until I get ready to do something with it. The 383 ....it feels like I have a tiger in a bag it wants to go but but it even has a hard time breaking lose a set of 255/60r15's non- posi......my own personal exp. with Jasper for the motor ......well.....warranty work they are so far Johnny on the spot but I have a small leak at front seal and I just picked up car Thursday evening so shop says to bring back at 500 oil change and we'll see what gives....but the first motor was junk ...they had to pull it and send it back ....main bearings were bad. 2nd motor with front main small leak ...we'll see what happens.....I don't think I would buy Jasper again....there are others out there that seem to put out better stuff......good luck
I hope some of the info I shared was helpful. You have a lot room to work with in the combination you have. As far as carb choice I agree with all the guys out there that the 600 you have can be replaced with something bigger. I run an old 3310 holley 780 with quick fuel tech metering blocks and throttle plate along with an adjustable vacuum secondary pod. Jetting size around 72-73 depending on weather cond. You have lots of room to work with. Me personally I would get a better set of heads with nothing bigger than a 64 cc chamber. Those world product sportsman II heads right out of the box are good for anywhere between 30 and 70 hp depending on the parts of your combo. I'll be running those heads on my 383. Good luck let me know if ya have any other questions.
1971 el camino
It's all been very helpful , I still have the 6 months or 8000 mi. warranty to get thru and hope this front main seal leak is just a fluke ...very small 2 drops in 2 days small. Then the building starts ...pulling all the info. I get from the members and keep asking questions. I also think heads is going to make a huge difference and the carb. is going to get changed this week ....and thank you for info. and thanks for the open door for questions....I'll need it....I'll keep it posted when carb change happens .Thanks again for all the help
Ron
It's all been very helpful , I still have the 6 months or 8000 mi. warranty to get thru and hope this front main seal leak is just a fluke ...very small 2 drops in 2 days small. Then the building starts ...pulling all the info. I get from the members and keep asking questions. I also think heads is going to make a huge difference and the carb. is going to get changed this week ....and thank you for info. and thanks for the open door for questions....I'll need it....I'll keep it posted when carb change happens .Thanks again for all the help
Ron
cam for the 383
Hey Richard.....going over some of are old posts and edelbrock cam # 7102 thru summit ? what do you think ....the cam that in the motor is 0.050 dur. 224.in/234 ex
ad.dur. 298 in/ 304 ex
cam lift .311 in/ 325 ex.......oper. range 2200-5500
valve lift .465in/ 488ex. mid range torque response 3000-4000
lobe ctr. 107 in/ 117 ex.
Have not herd back from anybody yet so it's still up to machine shop if the'll install heads and 0 decking and all....if they need to stay with what jasper directed them to do then I'll have to wait .....if not .....do you think this cam will work with the combo ? ....Thanks for all the help Richard.....
Ron
Hey Richard.....going over some of are old posts and edelbrock cam # 7102 thru summit ? what do you think ....the cam that in the motor is 0.050 dur. 224.in/234 ex
ad.dur. 298 in/ 304 ex
cam lift .311 in/ 325 ex.......oper. range 2200-5500
valve lift .465in/ 488ex. mid range torque response 3000-4000
lobe ctr. 107 in/ 117 ex.
Have not herd back from anybody yet so it's still up to machine shop if the'll install heads and 0 decking and all....if they need to stay with what jasper directed them to do then I'll have to wait .....if not .....do you think this cam will work with the combo ? ....Thanks for all the help Richard.....
Ron
jasper 383
Thanks....3rd jasper motor and doing what hopes to be the last rebuild.....local builder this time though and adding pro-filer heads and a new cam......
Thanks....3rd jasper motor and doing what hopes to be the last rebuild.....local builder this time though and adding pro-filer heads and a new cam......
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