I think the 4500 stall converter and 4:56 gears are the saving grace here, as far as allowing the Nova to roll under 3000rpm. But the vic jr should be a nice match to the 220cc intake runners, I'd say your drivetrain combo will make a 95% track / 5% street, just the drive back to the staging lanes.

What cam did you have in mind? I'd imagine it's something in the 24x/25x @ .050" range?

 

I have 215s on my 427. You need to look at something in the 200 range. I put 180 Brodix on my last 350. 220 are way too big, I don't care who makes them. They are also too big for a 383. Get your money back now and get something reasonably sized.

And whoever told you that you need 220s, is an idiot and I'd never take a piece of advice from that person again.

Look up Deakins here, he just built a 355 for his car, he can give you some good advice. If you're going with that stall you're going to want a cam that kicks in about 3500 RPMs and up to 8K performance.

Drop him a PM, he's done that motor.

 

To get a 355 to perform well with 220 cc intake ports you need to turn it
up real high, 8500+ at the stripe; 1.something first gear in the glide with
4500 stall and 4.56 gears in the rear is not nearly enough.

I put a set of AFR 210's on a 355, 2300LB car, 5500 stall, 488 gear; it runs
real strong in the 1/4.

 

Wait... define "weak hydraulic cam." If you have a small duration cam, it is done by 5000 rpms, but your stall doesn't even come in until an insane 4500 rpms. You have basically limited your operating range to 4500-5000.

I have seen some mismatches in my day, but this would top them all. Please define "weak hydraulic cam."

 

Hopefully "weak cam" describes the previous situation. It's gonna take a lot of lift and duration to make any sort of sense out of those heads on a 355- to the point of maxing everything out to the "lowest common denominator", whether that's the gears, the stall, or carb/intake or whatever.

Find the weakest link that you won't change and max everything else to that.

Still won't be enough, but it'll be better than a "weak" cam.

 

Wait... define "weak hydraulic cam." If you have a small duration cam, it is done by 5000 rpms, but your stall doesn't even come in until an insane 4500 rpms. You have basically limited your operating range to 4500-5000.

I have seen some mismatches in my day, but this would top them all. Please define "weak hydraulic cam."

Exactly, not well thought out at all. From cam to rear. This is a cluster puck waiting to happen.

Yet, you're the first one to point it out.

That's what happens when you take internet advice. I've seen this 1000 times. Go buy this really cool part and it will work magic, on matter what the combination is. And that advice always seems to come from the same people recommending the same part.

Just a good example that putting something together takes a lot more thought than just bolting miscellaneous parts together.

 

Hopefully "weak cam" describes the previous situation. It's gonna take a lot of lift and duration to make any sort of sense out of those heads on a 355- to the point of maxing everything out to the "lowest common denominator", whether that's the gears, the stall, or carb/intake or whatever.

Find the weakest link that you won't change and max everything else to that.

Still won't be enough, but it'll be better than a "weak" cam.

Hey Cobalt, didn't you say you put 230s on your 350 and it ran like crap until you went to 195s?

I think that was you.

 

Hey Cobalt, didn't you say you put 230s on your 350 and it ran like crap until you went to 195s?

I think that was you.

Naw, I'm a conservative-type when it comes to runner volumes to CID for SBC's, especially "small" SBC's like a 355.

My recommendations to the OP in another thread where he was looking for advice on what to look for (or look out for) when buying heads from a swap-meet, was:

"Personally, I avoid (like the plague) any "ported/polished" or modified heads- including decked, unless you can verify what the cc's of the chambers and/or ports, etc. are. Not too likely at a swap meet.

I'd say to look for a pair of name brand, unmodded heads that were used and replaced when the guy wanted to go faster- that type of thing. Expect to deal w/the seller, but beware if he comes down to a great price too easily. A good set of heads will not be the best bargain out there- I would expect to pay a fair price for good heads, going in. And for the seller to stand firm at a reasonable price.

There will likely be Vortec's there- a good deal might be found on a set of GM Bow Tie Vortec's, either large or small ports.

I'd be looking for a "fast-burn"- type combustion chamber (kidney- or heart-shaped, w/dual quench pads) on whatever heads I bought.

I personally prefer straight plugs and they work about the same in the newer comb. chambers, anyway.

Keep in mind the use you will have for them- you prob. do not need 225cc intake runners, or 50cc chambers. Even at a bargain price, some heads are still overpriced."

 

Well I knew....

Well I knew they were too big for my 355, but my plans were too put them on the 383 that I'm going to build. Yes the engine is a "cluster" that was in the Car when I purchased it..to find out the engine came out of a dirt track car. (strong botom end..but thats it) the weak cam that currently is in the engine is a:

ISKY - Grind No./Type SL-2 HYDRAULICClasses where stock lift rules apply; banked 3/8-1/2 mile tracks.RPM-Range 2400-6800Valve Lift - INT .390 EXT .410Valve Lash Hot - INT .000 EXT .000ADV Durat.

I was looking for some advice on a cam (solid roller?) that would be good for this 355 that I could move over to a 383.

I know APR 195 eliminators would be perfect but I have $'s to worry about.

 

Cobalt327 told me so!

Cobalt327 did tell me....I thought these would be a good choice on a 383 and wouldn't kill me on a 355.

Should I just sell the heads and hope I come across something else?

 

Cobalt327 did tell me....I thought these would be a good choice on a 383 and wouldn't kill me on a 355.

Should I just sell the heads and hope I come across something else?

My thoughts are, if you can- hold on to them and when you run across a deal on a Dart block, or even a good, OEM 400 block, build a big-A mouse and put them to good use.

Or, go w/a gnarly solid roller in the 355 and let 'er rev. You have a strong bottom end, you think? This will prove it once and for all!

And start looking for some 5.13's...

But the bigger the engine and the more built to rev (cam and strength-wise), the better the heads will work.

 

Cobalt327 did tell me....I thought these would be a good choice on a 383 and wouldn't kill me on a 355.

Should I just sell the heads and hope I come across something else?

My idea of a bargin basement head is the Brodix IK 200.

It would fit your 355 just right, and down the line you can have them ported when you go bigger, if you even want to.

If you shop these you can probably pick them up for about $800 and change.

You can get that for your AFRs,you would wind up real good set of heads, with the ability to have them worked later for future performance.

If you have these heads worked for your 383 by someone good, like a Lloyd Elliot, TPIS, Lingenfelter, or my choice RFD, you will have just as good of a head later, as you would for the AFR 195s now, but you don't have to put the money out of your pocket now. It provides room to grow. That extra $600 in your pocket can do some good somewhere else.

So my recommendation is sell the AFRs for what you can get. Buy the 200 Brodix, put the extra money in your pocket, and when you do the 383 you have a set of heads you know all about and will port with great results.

Brodix is a top shelf manufacturer they have been in business for 40 years, and they are a well respected company. There is nothing CHEAP about the IKs.

The 230s are just way too big for what you're doing IMO even the 383.

 

My thoughts are, if you can- hold on to them and when you run across a deal on a Dart block, or even a good, OEM 400 block, build a big-A mouse and put them to good use.

Or, go w/a gnarly solid roller in the 355 and let 'er rev. You have a strong bottom end, you think? This will prove it once and for all!

And start looking for some 5.13's...

But the bigger the engine and the more built to rev (cam and strength-wise), the better the heads will work.

Yeah, but the cam is small, etc...

He also said hydraulic cam, don't know if it's a roller, HRs top out about 6500-7000 RPMs, if it is one. Spinning it up high enough to take advantage of the heads may not be realistic.

The problem here is to use those heads, EVERYTHING else has to be changed.

What if life situation changes and he can't afford the 383 or just decides not to do it? Then he's stuck with these heads on there that aren't right and
the motor isn't doing what it should.

Basically, it's at a crossroads that to keep the heads everything else must change.

 

Thanks

Thanks for the advice and please kett it coming....

 

Cam sounds like a FT Isky for 'lift rule' racing.

No matter, on your 355 I would not go beyond 200 unless you plan on a lot of RPM. 220 is just way big for most 355's and even on a 383. You do not need +200cc runner volume, and IMO, no need for 2.08 valves on a 350 based bore size either. On stroker 400's 200-220 make good useable power with good response, bigger if going more RPM but this gets to be where opinions vary. Like 245+ bigger on big inch small blocks that see a lot of RPM or race only. JMO

 

Many 190's are capable of supporting 550+ hp in a 350 if you pick wisely. No need for 220s unless you plan on seeing 7500+ rpm.

 

Thanks for the advice

I'm probably going to sell the AFR 220's and look for something more compatible.

 

I'll be the odd voice out there -- Keep the 220's as you are planning a future 383, put a big (265-270 dur @ .050, .670+ intake lift)solid roller in both and rev the snot out of it, 7600-7800 rpm. Go to 4.88 or 5.13 gears.

Guess it all depends on what you can "stand" on the street. I could cruise a Pro Mod if it wouldn't overheat and eat plugs :evil:

 

I'll be the odd voice out there -- Keep the 220's as you are planning a future 383, put a big (265-270 dur @ .050, .670+ intake lift)solid roller in both and rev the snot out of it, 7600-7800 rpm. Go to 4.88 or 5.13 gears.

Guess it all depends on what you can "stand" on the street. I could cruise a Pro Mod if it wouldn't overheat and eat plugs :evil:

My dad used to say to me....

"all you did was lift up the radiator cap and pull an new car under it".

Basically, this is the same thing.

Like I said, is the OP prepared to buy all new parts to keep a set of heads that are too big? Build a motor around a set of heads? That's ridiculous. If that's the decision, buy all new parts and match them up right.

 

My dad used to say to me....

"all you did was lift up the radiator cap and pull an new car under it".

Basically, this is the same thing.

Like I said, is the OP prepared to buy all new parts to keep a set of heads that are too big? Build a motor around a set of heads? That's ridiculous. If that's the decision, buy all new parts and match them up right.

I build all my engines around the heads, they should be the first pieces you buy.

What do you mean, all new parts? OP is already considering a solid roller, his heads came with rockers, he's said he already has a solid short block, car is set up to match a racy engine, he wants 75%+ track use over street -- Go big or go home!

Cam that is currently in the engine doesn't match either, and neither do his weak stock heads. He is basically building from the short block up already. His total car package goes better with large heads.

 

I'll be the odd voice out there

Ahh, check post 13.

 

Question and again advice.

I've found a set of AFR Street Fighters - 195 runners. They are supposed to be CNC ported on both the intake and exhaust from AFR for $850 (seems to be a OK(??) price - I would jump all over them if they were the new style eliminator)

2.02/1.60's/68cc chambers and set up to handle .550 lift (I'll have to go with bigger valve springs if I go with much of a cam)

They would be good for my 355 but my 383?

These heads are 6-7 years old - anything special about these heads Or are would I be better off with the Summit 200cc made by Brodix.

 

They will be fine the 195's will work well in both size engines.Also remember heads and cam are never to big rpm is just to low.LOL.

 

Here's my take on all of this waffling around:

Quit trying to do a "one size fits all" build, and decide on what the heck size engine you want to build, then build it w/the correct parts.

To get the max performance from a 350 or a 383 require different parts, including cam, induction, exhaust, combustion chamber size, head port volume and one could even argue valve size, as well.

Yes, you can run a 195cc intake port on a 383- but a 210cc port would be closer to the ideal.

Yes, you can run your 220cc ports on a 355 or 383, but w/the proviso's already mentioned in earlier posts.

But for a maximized combination, one size will not be ideal for both the 355 and a 383.

I would suggest that if you just have to build the 355 before the 383, that you buy the parts exactly as though you were gonna build a 383 (if this is- in fact- what you are gonna end up with), install them on the 355 short block and just put up w/whatever performance you get from it. It will not be that bad, as long as you're not money or class racing, it really doesn't matter, anyway.

Then, when you've had enough of driving the 355 that wants to be a 383, build the 383, R&R all the parts from the 355 onto the 383.

Or, just build the damn 383 to start with!!!

 

heads

I really hesitated to make this post. This is one of those threads that will turn into a giant wizzing match. Cylinder heads are one of the most mis-understood parts in the modern performance engine. The myth that since everyone agrees that a certain head is “to big” it must be to big is almost impossible to get over on an internet forum like this.

I would venture a guess that out of all the people that told you the head is to big…zero of them have ever ran that head on a engine like yours.

You cannot make a blanket statement that a head is to big for X cubic engine base solely on intake runner CC’S. No body is that good.

The port design is way more of a factor then the CC of the runner. Guys that understand air speed, CSA, VJ, etc know this. The problem is most guys go off of some magazine article or internet forum to base there data on.. bad thing is most of the time it’s wrong.

If that head you got has the same flow numbers, air speed numbers through the valve lift to say .500”as the smaller head, it’s going to run the exact same as the smaller head. It’s just that simple.

When the numbers are different, then things change.

I do not, (and I doubt anyone that posted so far does either) have the numbers on that head to compare to another head to give you a straight answer..

Keith