[Les-10]

I bought a set off Dart SHP fully assembled, 180cc, 64cc chambers about 4 years ago for 1200. I found them on Amazon via Speedway motors.
I also looked at some China copy’s for around 850 fully dressed,
I went with the dart because I felt 350 was cheap insurance because dart was a known business with a good reputation.

That makes sense to me too, The Dart heads work out good?

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

Can you do head assembly and of would be willing to do head assembly? Your budget of let’s say 1000 dollars is pretty tight these days. This is an area where buying bare head’s and individual parts to stuff them opens up a much wider selection of head’s. It also allows you to choose head’s that can accept some of your existing parts off the SMOG head’s you have like the springs, retainers and locks which will hold the budget down.

Aluminum head’s will require a longer valve stem so you can’t get around a set of valves to that end my favorite landing field for parts is Competition Products my experience with them is very good parts and very decent prices. I’d request a paper catalog Competition Products as I find it easier to hunt parts there then use their catalog numbers to hunt on their online catalog for the parts I want. Their search engine isn’t quite what I think it should by, but that gripe covers just about everybody’s search engine.

Other things you’ll need to do is decide for straight or angle spark plugs, that will be to a high degree serviceability and clearance around what you use for exhaust headers or manifolds.

Aluminum head’s also require a hardened washer between the head bolt and cylinder head which really requires a new set of bolts that are slightly longer than stock. Here there are several selections from ProComp on the inexpensive end to ARP on high cost end. I’ve had decent luck with either.

Aluminum head’s being a fairly soft material compared to iron really are happiest with a composite head gasket rather than a steel shim. However, FelPro does sell a polymer coated shim that they say is OK with aluminum to iron sandwiches. Most sellers of aluminum head’s push you toward quite thick gaskets from .039 to .051 inch (GM used .053 as standard on aluminum headed SBC’s) but these very thick gaskets are undesirable from a squish/quench stand point. When one considers that .040 is nominally the optimized goal between piston and head and .025 to .030 is already built into the short block, then sticking a .053 gasket in there is in total dimension getting a bit wide. Here aluminum is much more tolerant than iron and it’s quicker heat removal keeps the engine under the detonation limit where that large of a clearance with an iron head will be problematic regarding the detonation limit. A reasonable compromise is to use a thinner .026 inch thick gasket such as the Mahle VIC5746 or something similar and these are pretty inexpensive while doing a damn good job of sealing and maintaining a better squish/quench clearance.

An aluminum head is going to require either push rod guide plates or self guiding rockers and of course screw in hex base studs. Again lots of cost ranges on studs from inexpensive imports to high end domestics. For your intentions of good street performance and not racing the lower cost parts should be plenty good. Frequently push rod, rocker and valve stem alignment gets to be a problem, I think in your case an inexpensive set of self aligning rockers is a fair solution that gets around potential fixes of push rod guides. Here since you don’t intend to wind the engine out the later 1987 through end of production GM ball fulcrum, sliding shoe, self guiding, OEM rocker is sufficient and cost effective. Same goes for push rods there is no need to spend bundles of cash for moderate street build You will need pushrods that are .1 inch longer than the 7.8 inch stock length.

Since most aftermarket head’s accept either center or perimeter bolt valve/rocker covers so reusing your existing covers is possible.

A word of caution is not to remove the lifters, they break in with the cam lobe, so you do not want to get them mixed up. Certainly in a head swap there shouldn’t be a reason to remove them but crap happens so just be aware.

Bogie

 

[Les-10]

Thanks again for your input. Got to decide how to spend some money!

 

[95 Truck]

I have had no problems with heads, other then having to take a die grinder to push rod holes for clearance.
From what I understand, that to produce a better flowing head and have large valves, the runner is enlarged and push rod moved.

So when fitting heads need to check push rod clearance, also rockers arms on intake valve will be on a slight angle and not parallel to exhaust.

I believe this is very common on aftermarket heads. Regardless of manufacture.

Perhaps Boogie can confirm and better explain.

One last thing, another common issue with newer better heads is the rocker arm stud threads break into the intake runners. You must use some type of pipe sealer on your rocker stud threads, if you don’t you will burn oil like you can’t believe, I learned this the hard way.

 

[johnsongrass1]

Don't ya love it when other people spend your money?
I'd use the XE268 installed 4 advanced.
Worry about heads later if you decide too you have a good cam choice to compliment.

 

[2001Blazer4x4]

Or even advance your current camshaft 4 degrees. IIRC its on a 112LCA with 4 advance so a little extra room.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

The OP already screwed himself as the 290 horse Good Wrench 350 is except for the camshaft 800 dollars more expensive than what is now sold as the 265 horse Good Wrench 350.

If he bought the 265 horse version for the 222/222 @ .050 cam plus a gasket set he could convert the 265 into a 290 for about 200 dollars for cam and gaskets. That would have left 600 dollars in the bank toward a decent set of head’s.

Given the 265 horse Goodwrench comes with the old 300 horse cam on a 350 with 10.5 compression and the 290 horse version with the old 350 to 370 horse Corvette 350 with 10.5 compression. You can see that the low compression just kills the torque and power. The XE268 doesn’t time at .050 lift very much different from the cam he has in this engine and teamed with my experience in messing around with these engines it will not offer anything much different but it can be a lobe and lifter eater because of the fast lift rates and higher peak lifts. As far as retarding the XE268 cam to boost the trap pressure, that can be done with the cam he has to same net effect.

The real problem with this and the 265 horse version of this engine is compression, while Chevy advertises this as around 8.5 if you take the motor apart and measure you find it’s really closer to 7.2. Add to that these engines tend to be built with really old fashion two piece welded stem valves that really hog volume out of the valve pocket and have a way crappy SMOG chamber.

Now when you go back to his root complaint you see he’s trying to diddle with the cam and mufflers to improve the exhaust sound. But the root of that problem once again is the lack of compression ratio.

So pouring money into a different cam and or different mufflers is dicking around the edges of his complaint. He could take the head’s he has mill them and use the .015 thick FelPro shim to pump up the compression a whack of .030 and the afore mentioned thin FelPro will put the SCR at about the factory advertised which is still low for the cam he has or the XE268H.

So rather than have him flushing money down the toilet for minimal if any improvement, I’m suggesting it would be better invested into modern head’s that will maximize the cam. The cam he has or the XE268 needs about 9.5 to be effective and the existing head being a thin wall casting can’t be cut that far and be expected not to crack. Then the .015 gasket demands very good surfaces or it leaks.

So rather than being easy with his money I and others of similar mind are trying to put him on the path that results in the least amount of investment for the most amount of longevity, security and reliability not to mention a matching bite and bark from his investment. It is going to cost a bit more because of the original decision to purchase the 290 horse version of this engine. Figure GM’s extra 800 dollars for this motor is a pretty high premium to get a 160 dollar camshaft.

Bogie

Bogie

 

[Les-10]

??????????????? Didn't screw myself by buying the 290 version of the crate engine. The short answer is that the engine was in the car when I bought it. This has gotten WILD. Wowwww!!!! Thanks you for your time folks.

 

[RWENUTS]

You didn’t buy it but a big bunch of people did only based likely on the 290 hp rating.
It’s the numbers game!
A lot of disappointed buyers.

 

[Stormin_Norman]

I’ve run the old 268HE in low compression 350, that’s as big as I would go with stock heads. Drop the idle down with some loud mufflers and that cam sounds pretty good. I think it’s .218 at .050 with a 110 LSA and a .454 lift so it works with stock valve springs.

 

[Les-10]

I never thought about or mentioned changing mufflers to achieve a desired sound, that was a suggestion from someone offering an alternative not the OP & that suggestion is appreciated as well.

 

[Les-10]

I’ve run the old 268HE in low compression 350, that’s as big as I would go with stock heads. Drop the idle down with some loud mufflers and that cam sounds pretty good. I think it’s .218 at .050 with a 110 LSA and a .454 lift so it works with stock valve springs.

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

You know details I don’t, not trying to mess with your head or decisions, obviously the person who built it fell into this GM crate engine and now you own the problems it brings. I’ve seen this a lot that is people who buy the 290 horse engine to find it isn’t what they expected.

Spreading out a comparison of this 290 horse engine to the now 265 rated engine. If one figures that the original 290-300 horse 350 used the same cam as what is in the now 265 horse 350 and which has been in there for the 190 to 210 horse version. Compare that engine and cam to the cam in the engine now in your possession which is measured at .050 lift to be 222/222 degrees duration and .450/.460 inch valve lift with an LSA of 114 degrees whigh with SMOG head’s only grosses 290 horsepower with an advertised compression ratio of 8.5. Now consider the old preSMOG 290/300 horse 350 used a cam at .050 of only 195/202 degrees duration with .390/.410 inch lift at the valves, with 10.5/11.0 compression from what essentially was the original LT1 camel hump head. This head is 64cc chamber that features a double quench around the valve pocket with the spark plug close to the tangent line drawn between the intake and exhaust valves, not up to modern heart chamber but not as trashy as the head’s go. However, you have head’s that are single quench open on the spark plug side with the plug removed a distance from the tangent line between the valve diameters. This is a slow burning, detonation prone, low swirl chamber that has a hard time making power and burns a lot of fuel not doing it.

So in analysis of head’s to compression ratio and chamber shape the drop in compression of your crate engine requires 28 more degrees of intake and 18 more degrees exhaust duration with a bit more lift to achieve the power of the smaller crammed old 290/300 horse pre SMOG 350 with tighter, higher compression chambers.

So what you can take way from these numbers is the compression decrease from 10.5/11.0 to 8.5 (which is probably actually less than 8 to 1 by measuring actual and the chamber shape change costs the crankshaft the least 70 horse power and against the worst state of this engine at the height of SMOG detuning losses on it go as high as 95 missing ponies and more giving that there was a 205 horse 350 with this 222/222 cam and I’m giving that engine another 50 horses to make 255 because the 205 was a net not gross power rating. So I’m trying to keep these power ratings apples to apples at SAE gross power, or gross to gross as the case is.

That’s why so many of us landed on spending your hard earned dollars on head’s that get the compression ratio up and improve the burn first. Once that problem is fixed the engine power will come up everywhere and likely for all that extra power there won’t be a fuel burn penalty, possibly even an improvement albeit small but measurable.

The XE268H yes it doesn’t use so many degrees of duration in that ramp range of just meeting the ramp duration compared to the .050 lift duration so that is more efficient trade against trapped cylinder pressure than the 222/222 factory cam. But you also have to consider the total lift where the Comp cam is using .477/.480 and tightens the LSA to 110 to gain back on overlap. The more modern Comp cam is going to run harder with modern head’s with bigger ports and a better combustion chamber than staying with the L46 cam. But without updating the head’s there will be nothing much to show for your investment till the head’s get changed.

Now I know nothing about your facilities, tools or knowledge base, but changing a cam is going to include the cost of cam and lifters as you can’t reuse old previously run flat tappets on a conventional flat tappet cam. The lobes and lifters become a married pair, changing them around quickly fills the pan with glitter. Then comes the cost and efforts of getting in there and out again. This will probably start with radiator and hose removal after you drain the coolant. Then goes the accessories and their belt drives to get working space. The intake is off after you remove the distributor so you can pull the lifters and mop up spilled coolant. Now comes the coolant pump usually not a big deal. Then the damper, this is a light press fit on the crank so once you get the safety bolt off you need a puller to remove the damper, never ever pry from the outside perimeter as that outter ring is bonded to the hub with rubber, it’s easy to damage. When you get to replacing it use an installation tool not a ball peen hammer, so if you don’t have these tools there either a couple purchases, maybe you can borrow or rent’em. Now you’re at the timing case it looks simple till you discover it’s gasketed association with the pan. This usually requires dropping the pan to keep from distorting the timing case cover with brut force. Here’s another gasket set and some good gooey sealer. Since your going to change the cam phasing to advance of the crank you now need a suitable adjustable timing set. Now you get to R&R the cam that’s usually not to big a deal. Then you get to put all of this back together. This is nowhere as simple as it is often sold.

Just in case you wonder why I see purple at the suggestion that all you need to do is replace the old cam or even rephrase the a new or old cam. To reiterate; this is not as simple as it first appears.

Notes from me, I would recommend replacing the timing case cover with a multi-piece cover once you doing a cam or timing set replacement. These separate the functional part that mates with the oil pan from the gear and chain cover. For the hobbiest or the racer that figures on ending up inside the timing case more than once, these make life a ton simpler than having to bust the gasket between block and pan and pan and timing cover every time you need into the timing case,,,,just say’n.

I apologize for messing with abrasive comment, I’m competing with my old Siamese cat Pip to see whose the most grouchy.

Bogie

 

[eric32]

I won't say a whole bunch as pretty much everyone else here has posted some good information but I highly recommend not to be wanting to change out a camshaft just for the sound. I have done that before and I once had a very nice 350 build with a nice hydraulic roller camshaft and it had a nice lope at idle when I used to like builds with bigger cams and that racy sound and I had a guy say to me that my motor sounded stock.

That comment got to me and when I first heard my build I was a little disappointed it did not sound as choppy as my previous stroker build that had a more rumpy rump camshaft in it. I ended up spending $300 plus on a new cam which was a comp cams big mother thumper camshaft hydraulic roller, then new gaskets and a weeks long worth of time and vacation from work to swap cams out. Let me tell you on first start up it sounded awesome and that is where the good part of the story ends.

I did tune my Holley up and it was ready to go and it sounded good but even with the cam being bigger it performed way worse then what I had in it. The engine was matched with good flowing heads and intake and proper stall converter and rear gearing and it ran strong but not as good as my previous cam that was in it. Long story short I hated that cam and all the marketing hype around it. Don't make an engine for sound but make it to perform and run well regardless of what cam you use.

Bottom line its your build and its all up to you what you want to do with it and if it makes you happy then all the best to you but I am just sharing my experience with trying to build a engine with sound being involved. I after 20 plus years of having two trucks with different builds and camshafts from bone stock to really wild have come to the point I have given up on any camshaft that has a lope at idle and has a rough idle as it sounds good and even with matched parts and runs good and strong there is a price to pay for street manors and the headache of tuning stuff to get it to run on the street. I only cruise so I now have my engine built around just for cruising and being on the milder side has left me being a lot happier with my engine.

You can get a camshaft that is on the starting stage and it can have a faint lope at idle and still be streetable and have decent manors but opinions will vary on what that is so I will leave numbers out of the conversation.

I when I first got the hunger for that racy idle the first time I heard it being only in my early 20's in the late 90's wanted that so bad I talked my Father into putting a cam like that into my engine. I had a bone stock 350 with smogger 882 cylinder heads and all stock everything except a stall converter and a low rise single plane Edelbrock intake manifold and it sounded nice but ran like a pile of junk and the stall convertor was not enoug for the comp cam 292 hydraulic flat tappet cam which specs at 244/244@50 500/500 lift and a 110 lsa.

I eventually worked and built up a proper motor to run with that camshaft but over the years as I got older and more knowledge about builds and the pros and cons with running bigger camshafts I have come to the point I am not wanting something like that anymore. Its just my personal preference.

Everyone for the most part in the hotrodding business likes that rough idle sound and I still do but it comes with a cost when it comes to having a build made around just the sound of a camshaft. I just like the sound of a v8 period and don't worry about camshaft lope and sound anymore.

I just like a good running matched engine with good street manors and its a fun ride versus sound and being miserable while driving.Please don't think I am trying to put you down or anything as that is not my intent as I am just letting you know my history and what happened with me and the pitfalls of mismatched parts being way out of range and building a motor with only sound as the priority.

 

[cerial]

Why not leave the sbc alone. Just drive the thing.

If you want a mean sounding cam then starting with a (6 bolt main) LS that has better factory heads then most aftermarket sbc heads would be recommended. It sounds like your talking about potentially putting 2k into a engine you just want to sound a bit diffrent.

Its no secret that you can make more power per dollar with a LS vs a sbc.
Lets say you want 380hp with a mean sounding idle in a daily driver. That can be done with a simple cam swap(as long as the shortblock still had good cam bearings), gaskets, a bit better breathing, and a good tune.
The computer has the ablity to adjust the timing much better/faster then vacume so you will still maintain driveablity as long as you tune for that cam.

This is one of those leave it alone things. When you jump to a LS eventually you can add a cam to give you the sound your after.

I have bought around a dozen "built" sbc's from 350hp to 420hp from people doing LS swaps. They were all short lived engines ran hard and driven stupid. But I did not really care because I bought often bought the entire engine oil pan to intake(some came with carbs) for the price of the aftermarket heads.

If you want a sbc then there are still people building them before doing a LS swap. There are less of them as there was 10 years ago. But if you want a "built" sbc then I would look at buying one used. Now stay away from circle track, offroad, and marine engines. But finding a low mileage "built" 350/383 sitting in a 4 door grocery getter can save you cash while giving you the sound your after. They dont need anything off that engine and it is a fuel, exhaust, and electric hookup.

Dont be another guy that dumps $3 to 4k into a sbc then selling it for $1000 to $1500 with 10 to 40k on the thing when they decide to do a $2500 to $4000 LS swap.

I am basically done with SBC's because there are simply better hp per dollar engines out. You will still catch me playing with low hp TBI because they are cheap fuel injection. But dumping cash into a "built" SBC makes about sence as building a flathead.

If you want the classic look or have a numbers matching or just a cheap to drive low hp engine a SBC still works.

Before you start making a build list and buying parts for a SBC set that list next to a build list for a LS comparing the two. For now just run what you have.

 

[Les-10]

You know details I don’t, not trying to mess with your head or decisions, obviously the person who built it fell into this GM crate engine and now you own the problems it brings. I’ve seen this a lot that is people who buy the 290 horse engine to find it isn’t what they expected.

Spreading out a comparison of this 290 horse engine to the now 265 rated engine. If one figures that the original 290-300 horse 350 used the same cam as what is in the now 265 horse 350 and which has been in there for the 190 to 210 horse version. Compare that engine and cam to the cam in the engine now in your possession which is measured at .050 lift to be 222/222 degrees duration and .450/.460 inch valve lift with an LSA of 114 degrees whigh with SMOG head’s only grosses 290 horsepower with an advertised compression ratio of 8.5. Now consider the old preSMOG 290/300 horse 350 used a cam at .050 of only 195/202 degrees duration with .390/.410 inch lift at the valves, with 10.5/11.0 compression from what essentially was the original LT1 camel hump head. This head is 64cc chamber that features a double quench around the valve pocket with the spark plug close to the tangent line drawn between the intake and exhaust valves, not up to modern heart chamber but not as trashy as the head’s go. However, you have head’s that are single quench open on the spark plug side with the plug removed a distance from the tangent line between the valve diameters. This is a slow burning, detonation prone, low swirl chamber that has a hard time making power and burns a lot of fuel not doing it.

So in analysis of head’s to compression ratio and chamber shape the drop in compression of your crate engine requires 28 more degrees of intake and 18 more degrees exhaust duration with a bit more lift to achieve the power of the smaller crammed old 290/300 horse pre SMOG 350 with tighter, higher compression chambers.

So what you can take way from these numbers is the compression decrease from 10.5/11.0 to 8.5 (which is probably actually less than 8 to 1 by measuring actual and the chamber shape change costs the crankshaft the least 70 horse power and against the worst state of this engine at the height of SMOG detuning losses on it go as high as 95 missing ponies and more giving that there was a 205 horse 350 with this 222/222 cam and I’m giving that engine another 50 horses to make 255 because the 205 was a net not gross power rating. So I’m trying to keep these power ratings apples to apples at SAE gross power, or gross to gross as the case is.

That’s why so many of us landed on spending your hard earned dollars on head’s that get the compression ratio up and improve the burn first. Once that problem is fixed the engine power will come up everywhere and likely for all that extra power there won’t be a fuel burn penalty, possibly even an improvement albeit small but measurable.

The XE268H yes it doesn’t use so many degrees of duration in that ramp range of just meeting the ramp duration compared to the .050 lift duration so that is more efficient trade against trapped cylinder pressure than the 222/222 factory cam. But you also have to consider the total lift where the Comp cam is using .477/.480 and tightens the LSA to 110 to gain back on overlap. The more modern Comp cam is going to run harder with modern head’s with bigger ports and a better combustion chamber than staying with the L46 cam. But without updating the head’s there will be nothing much to show for your investment till the head’s get changed.

Now I know nothing about your facilities, tools or knowledge base, but changing a cam is going to include the cost of cam and lifters as you can’t reuse old previously run flat tappets on a conventional flat tappet cam. The lobes and lifters become a married pair, changing them around quickly fills the pan with glitter. Then comes the cost and efforts of getting in there and out again. This will probably start with radiator and hose removal after you drain the coolant. Then goes the accessories and their belt drives to get working space. The intake is off after you remove the distributor so you can pull the lifters and mop up spilled coolant. Now comes the coolant pump usually not a big deal. Then the damper, this is a light press fit on the crank so once you get the safety bolt off you need a puller to remove the damper, never ever pry from the outside perimeter as that outter ring is bonded to the hub with rubber, it’s easy to damage. When you get to replacing it use an installation tool not a ball peen hammer, so if you don’t have these tools there either a couple purchases, maybe you can borrow or rent’em. Now you’re at the timing case it looks simple till you discover it’s gasketed association with the pan. This usually requires dropping the pan to keep from distorting the timing case cover with brut force. Here’s another gasket set and some good gooey sealer. Since your going to change the cam phasing to advance of the crank you now need a suitable adjustable timing set. Now you get to R&R the cam that’s usually not to big a deal. Then you get to put all of this back together. This is nowhere as simple as it is often sold.

Just in case you wonder why I see purple at the suggestion that all you need to do is replace the old cam or even rephrase the a new or old cam. To reiterate; this is not as simple as it first appears.

Notes from me, I would recommend replacing the timing case cover with a multi-piece cover once you doing a cam or timing set replacement. These separate the functional part that mates with the oil pan from the gear and chain cover. For the hobbiest or the racer that figures on ending up inside the timing case more than once, these make life a ton simpler than having to bust the gasket between block and pan and pan and timing cover every time you need into the timing case,,,,just say’n.

I apologize for messing with abrasive comment, I’m competing with my old Siamese cat Pip to see whose the most grouchy.

Bogie

Thanks!

 

[Les-10]

I won't say a whole bunch as pretty much everyone else here has posted some good information but I highly recommend not to be wanting to change out a camshaft just for the sound. I have done that before and I once had a very nice 350 build with a nice hydraulic roller camshaft and it had a nice lope at idle when I used to like builds with bigger cams and that racy sound and I had a guy say to me that my motor sounded stock.

That comment got to me and when I first heard my build I was a little disappointed it did not sound as choppy as my previous stroker build that had a more rumpy rump camshaft in it. I ended up spending $300 plus on a new cam which was a comp cams big mother thumper camshaft hydraulic roller, then new gaskets and a weeks long worth of time and vacation from work to swap cams out. Let me tell you on first start up it sounded awesome and that is where the good part of the story ends.

I did tune my Holley up and it was ready to go and it sounded good but even with the cam being bigger it performed way worse then what I had in it. The engine was matched with good flowing heads and intake and proper stall converter and rear gearing and it ran strong but not as good as my previous cam that was in it. Long story short I hated that cam and all the marketing hype around it. Don't make an engine for sound but make it to perform and run well regardless of what cam you use.

Bottom line its your build and its all up to you what you want to do with it and if it makes you happy then all the best to you but I am just sharing my experience with trying to build a engine with sound being involved. I after 20 plus years of having two trucks with different builds and camshafts from bone stock to really wild have come to the point I have given up on any camshaft that has a lope at idle and has a rough idle as it sounds good and even with matched parts and runs good and strong there is a price to pay for street manors and the headache of tuning stuff to get it to run on the street. I only cruise so I now have my engine built around just for cruising and being on the milder side has left me being a lot happier with my engine.

You can get a camshaft that is on the starting stage and it can have a faint lope at idle and still be streetable and have decent manors but opinions will vary on what that is so I will leave numbers out of the conversation.

I when I first got the hunger for that racy idle the first time I heard it being only in my early 20's in the late 90's wanted that so bad I talked my Father into putting a cam like that into my engine. I had a bone stock 350 with smogger 882 cylinder heads and all stock everything except a stall converter and a low rise single plane Edelbrock intake manifold and it sounded nice but ran like a pile of junk and the stall convertor was not enoug for the comp cam 292 hydraulic flat tappet cam which specs at 244/244@50 500/500 lift and a 110 lsa.

I eventually worked and built up a proper motor to run with that camshaft but over the years as I got older and more knowledge about builds and the pros and cons with running bigger camshafts I have come to the point I am not wanting something like that anymore. Its just my personal preference.

Everyone for the most part in the hotrodding business likes that rough idle sound and I still do but it comes with a cost when it comes to having a build made around just the sound of a camshaft. I just like the sound of a v8 period and don't worry about camshaft lope and sound anymore.

I just like a good running matched engine with good street manors and its a fun ride versus sound and being miserable while driving.Please don't think I am trying to put you down or anything as that is not my intent as I am just letting you know my history and what happened with me and the pitfalls of mismatched parts being way out of range and building a motor with only sound as the priority.

Thanks for taking the time to share your wisdom. I drove my car yesterday & it's smooth & mellow manners are causing me to rethink things. May just wait for it to wear out & replace the whole thing.

 

[Les-10]

Why not leave the sbc alone. Just drive the thing.

If you want a mean sounding cam then starting with a (6 bolt main) LS that has better factory heads then most aftermarket sbc heads would be recommended. It sounds like your talking about potentially putting 2k into a engine you just want to sound a bit diffrent.

Its no secret that you can make more power per dollar with a LS vs a sbc.
Lets say you want 380hp with a mean sounding idle in a daily driver. That can be done with a simple cam swap(as long as the shortblock still had good cam bearings), gaskets, a bit better breathing, and a good tune.
The computer has the ablity to adjust the timing much better/faster then vacume so you will still maintain driveablity as long as you tune for that cam.

This is one of those leave it alone things. When you jump to a LS eventually you can add a cam to give you the sound your after.

I have bought around a dozen "built" sbc's from 350hp to 420hp from people doing LS swaps. They were all short lived engines ran hard and driven stupid. But I did not really care because I bought often bought the entire engine oil pan to intake(some came with carbs) for the price of the aftermarket heads.

If you want a sbc then there are still people building them before doing a LS swap. There are less of them as there was 10 years ago. But if you want a "built" sbc then I would look at buying one used. Now stay away from circle track, offroad, and marine engines. But finding a low mileage "built" 350/383 sitting in a 4 door grocery getter can save you cash while giving you the sound your after. They dont need anything off that engine and it is a fuel, exhaust, and electric hookup.

Dont be another guy that dumps $3 to 4k into a sbc then selling it for $1000 to $1500 with 10 to 40k on the thing when they decide to do a $2500 to $4000 LS swap.

I am basically done with SBC's because there are simply better hp per dollar engines out. You will still catch me playing with low hp TBI because they are cheap fuel injection. But dumping cash into a "built" SBC makes about sence as building a flathead.

If you want the classic look or have a numbers matching or just a cheap to drive low hp engine a SBC still works.

Before you start making a build list and buying parts for a SBC set that list next to a build list for a LS comparing the two. For now just run what you have.

I think you are right. I currently own a LS7 Z06 & have owned 4 previous LS engines so know what you're talking about. I had head work done & did a cam install 3 years ago but even in stock trim they are in a league by themselves. When I bought the streetrod my 1st thought was an LS conversion but didn't want to get into the whole computer/fuel injection installation deal given the limited real estate within the body
. Never know!

 

[eric32]

I am glad your deciding to leave your engine alone and just enjoy what you got. Trust me after twenty years of this combo and that combo I am tired of changing things out and just want something to drive and enjoy and I finally have that but am having a sort of mystery problem I am trying to figure out and looks like this spring I will have to yet again tear something off and fix it. Nothing but bad luck on my end. In my experience if it runs good and strong and it aint broke then leave it alone and enjoy it. Don't worry about the last number of horsepower unless you race for money etc at the drag strip.

I am at the point I am happy with something mild and nothing exotic and no big cam lope at idle and something that makes good vacuum and tons of torque and good street manors. If I can get my 350 build mystery solved them I am good to go finally. Just when I saw light at the end of the tunnel it was just another tunnel for me to have to walk down and hitting my head on the wall as to find another problem on my new build. Good luck in whatever you do.

 

[95 Truck]

LS are awesome, but maybe a little 2 cookie cutter now just like small block was for years. I have seen some people doing conversations to all electrical, which is cool. I have also seen a resurgence in people doing flat head fords, again way cool. For some thats what hot rodding all about being different, for others it about taking old stuff updating it and driving the wheels off it.

Time will answer the question for your toy