I would get the Dart Iron Eagle heads, or something else equivalent.

 

I agree, you can get the darts on ebay for around 700 dollars all put together... you can't even get a set of vortech heads with the decent springs for that (well, close anyway).

K

 

Over all the Vortec heads will outperform the Darts, but the darts will allow for more future upgrades (like porting). You could go with the Edelbrock heads, but then you are looking at spending $1000-$1200 when for $1400 you can get a ported set of AFR's.

Adam

 

There are other cylinder head options as well. In additon to the AFRs (which I am using on my project) I used a set of Trick Flow 23 degree heads on my wife's Vette. The castings appear to be of excellent quality, and they have a raised sealing rail all around the top of the head. A very nice piece for the price, with flow numbers approaching the AFR 190s. Lots of bang for the buck.

 

vortech heads will not touch the darts-

K

 

I just did some head research and found that for the money the Darts seem to be the best deal out there. I just paid for a set today from a machine shop selling on ebay. I talked to the guy a while and he can get about any Dart head cheaper than anyone I could find. He sold me Dart Pro 1 230cc heads complete for less than I could by the bare castings at summit or jegs. If you are interested in getting in touch with him, PM me and I can give you a phone number and email adress.

Chris

 

unlike everyone else I'd take the edelbrocks. yeah you pay a bit more but I think you get a littl emore for you money. if you plan on further porting the heads and whatnot I'd go with the Darts because of the reasonable price and easibility of getting them modded.

 

unlike everyone else I'd take the edelbrocks. yeah you pay a bit more but I think you get a littl emore for you money. if you plan on further porting the heads and whatnot I'd go with the Darts because of the reasonable price and easibility of getting them modded.

Easier to modify? Since when is it easier to port iron than aluminum?

 

Compare these combos and flow numbers.

Combo 10 below (dart combo):446 hp 433 tq

http://www.thesuccesssolution.com/site/index.asp?DL=5488&page=97423

Vortec combo with same cam, The dart combo has a Victor JR intake that is hurting the torque a little bit, but it is also giving it a little more hp on the top end over the dual plane on the Vortec combo: 449 hp, 486 tq

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/76178/index.html

Compare the flow numbers of the dart 180cc heads to the Vortec heads. The flowbench could be off, but if it is, it is off for both heads, so I would assume it is a good comparason.

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/41598/index4.html

I think if these two combonations were ran against eachother, the vortec heads would win because of the extra torque due to the smaller raised runner of the vortec heads

Adam

 

Heads

Unlike the rest of the pack, I support the Trick Flow Specialties heads, particularly, the Twisted Wedge, especially for a street engine.
As far as Im concerned, they are the best bang for the buck.

 

I agree that trick flows are a good buy, as far as an unported head goes, I dont think I have seen anything beat them.

Adam

 

Heads

Aother plus to the Twisted Wedge, it takes very little porting work for them to outflow all but the most elite of the heads. The Twisted Wedge heads I have on my 351 W flow as well as a set of AFR's, and Dart, and at a price a good deal lower. And they outflow many heads that cost more, like the Edelbrocks.

 

I bought a fully assembled set of Dart pro 1s of e bay for 925.00 2.05 1.60 215cc angle plug. I thought that was an awesome deal!

 

Heads

You did indeed get a good deal there. I dont recommend spending that kind of money on Ebay, as so many people have been ripped off. I would prefer to deal with a known quantity and know that if something isnt right, I can go back and have them make it good. Too much stuff is sold over Ebay with blind addresses. I am not casing particularly on Ebay, but the concept.
I wont do business with anyone I dont know their name, address, phone number etc.
Caviat Emptor!

 

I bought a fully assembled set of Dart pro 1s of e bay for 925.00 2.05 1.60 215cc angle plug. I thought that was an awesome deal!

Me too, but I got the 230cc.

The Vortecs might be a better choice if you are wanting to just go the 180cc. If you want some big number potential and went to the 200cc heads, I think that the Vortecs will be behind. If you can get a good set of Vortecs used, it would certainly be cheaper than anything you can get from the aftermarket.

The AFR and TFS are definately nice heads and for street engines probably the best out there. They are also more expensive and aluminum(at least as far as i have seen). I get the impression he is wanting iron heads.

Chris

 

Caviat Emptor!

That's exactly what Trust&safety said over at eBay about racersoutlet and their .550" valve springs that turned out to be Z28s!

So what EXACTLY does that mean?(I think it is "creative endevor" )


-ps- sad Vortecs don't come in aluminum

 

Caciet Emtor!

It means " Buyer Beware"!

Caviat Emtor!

The only Dart heads Ive ever dealt with were Aluminum. So I was going from the idea he was looking for them.
Until recently, I had seen very little difference in the prices of aftermarket steel and aluminum heads, which it seems lately, the steel heads have gone down a bit in price and the aluminums have gone up a few $$$$$$$$$$.

 

my350camaro84 what do you think is better about the Edelbrocks? If your going to tell him he should buy them please give him some information as to why he should.

I have read that the Edelbrock RPM's are a decent set of heads although recently I have also heard of quality complaint issues regarding some of Edelbrocks products. I was choosing between the Edelbrock RPM's and the Trickflow 23 degree heads and ended up going with the Trickflows. I liked the larger intake and exhaust runners compared to the Edelbrocks as it gives me a bit more room to grow with the engine. If I decide to do a 383 or goto a 400, I wont have to reconsider the heads.

I remember Edge sent me a link for a company that had quite a few engine combinations using the Edelbrock RPM's on some 355's and 383's making 420+ power. Anything bigger they went with AFR's I believe for more airflow and higher rpm/hp potential.

I dont have flow numbers with me and dont pretend to know an extreme amount about heads but there are a few things to keep in mind. First off if you use iron heads just be a little more cautious of your compression. With what you plan on running (9.5:1 correct?) it shouldn't be an issue and iron heads might even benefit you here. Given the specs on your cam and the specs on the Dart heads I'd say they seem to match pretty well.

Hope I didn't say anything stupid there . Just some info and my .02 for ya.

 

Heads up

Siggy brought up a good point, compression. You can generally run at least one full ratio with an aluminum head vs steel. IF you are running 9.5:1 with steel, you can safely go to 10.5:1 with aluminum and still run the same octane gas.
I ran 87 octane in my 351 W with 9.5:1 compression and would have had to run 91 octane with steel heads.

 

Me too, but I got the 230cc.

The Vortecs might be a better choice if you are wanting to just go the 180cc. If you want some big number potential and went to the 200cc heads, I think that the Vortecs will be behind. If you can get a good set of Vortecs used, it would certainly be cheaper than anything you can get from the aftermarket.

The AFR and TFS are definately nice heads and for street engines probably the best out there. They are also more expensive and aluminum(at least as far as i have seen). I get the impression he is wanting iron heads.

Chris

Did you buy your heads from Yodders? If so were you happy with them?

 

Actually, I just ordered the heads today. I will let everyone know if they are what they were advertised to be.

Chris

 

The Vortec head is probably the best airflow for the money. Very high quality as-cast ports, very effective seat angles, and considering their runner size, they are probably superior in port design to the Dart's.

I would think on a 350 street engine, they would be the logical choice.

They are reasonably priced.

These are the strong points.

The weak points of the Vortec heads are:

Lightweight castings that will not tolerate overheating.

There isn't much room for porting, and although they can be improved upon, unless you are a cylinder head expert, they are better left alone.

The Dart line up would be a step up, but the overall fit and finish of the heads will not be as good as a Vortec head. The dart's will be a much heavier duty casting, making it easier to abuse, and more meat for porting. The price of Dart heads is very fair. You can get the Iron Eagle SS head for about 550 bucks a pair complete, and they can be ported to huge volumes. I think the basic water jacket core must be the same as it's bigger brothers. Maybe this head is the best choice for a street 350.

Edelbrock aluminum heads would be a different category, and a great choice for their performance, light weight and great looks. More money though. I like the E-Tech heads for hot street engines.

 

It all depends on how much you are willing to do or to pay. The Vortecs are great street heads. But, if you want the kind of performance we all keep reading about, pocket porting them is necessary. And, if you are going to go with a typical street cam, you'll need to upgrade the springs (which I think includes remachining the seats). So, when all is said and done, they aren't as inexpensive as they seem. The darts are also great, but for a small port head, like is typically used on the street, the 23 degree Trick Flows and the smaller AFR heads both offer better flow numbers. Particularly on the exhaust port, which my computer dyno says lets me use a single pattern cam (read:less overlap). It all boils down to what you want to spend. That's why I brought up the Trick Flows to start with. By the time you have paid the machine shop to pocket port and remachine the seats on the Vortecs, you'll probably be within a couple humdred bucks of the Trick Flows. And that Aluminum is sure pretty. . . . . .

Check out Chevy High Performance's reviews of cylinder heads and the flow numbers those heads produced. It is enlightening.

 

Thanks for all the info and opinions.

Although money is part of the issue...I am willing to spend what I need to get a good set of heads...iron or alum....remembering that I want a nice hot... but very reliable... street car ('65 Chevelle Convertible). This car could be considered driven daily.....

That being said...I also don't need to go overboard with something far more than neccessary. I was origianlly thinking 350-360hp would be plenty...but more is always welcome....

I am in Canada...but looking a Summits website...it looks like comparable iron Darts are about equivalent to upgraded vortechs....with the Edlebrocks about $400 more and the Trick Flows another $200-300. Since I intend to keep this car for a very long time...I think I will buy new heads assembled.

 

If you are thinking about running the Vortecs, Buy them from this place, they sell them for cheaper than anyone else that I have seen, ($650 a set, which is $100 cheaper thas summit, with the valve spring upgrade able to handle .525 lift) and they sell self aligning rockers for $50 a set.

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/217...172/products/9063/Vortec-SB-Chevrolet-Cylinder-Head-w_-Valve-Spring-Upgrade.htm

The Darts are $800 out of summit, that makes the vortecs $150 cheaper. If you are planning on having this motor togather for a long time, and dont plan on doing much upgrading in the future, I would go with the vortecs, I had them on a car and I loved them. The vortecs will make about the same hp with a considerable amount more torque. Your cam has .477 .480 lift, so the vortec heads match perfectly there.

Another thing, I dont know if you are considering AFR heads at all, But for $1300 a set, they are the best thing out there. Here is the website www.airflowresearch.com look at the dynoed combos part, and the articles part at the top of the page there is alot of really good information to look at and compare to other heads. If you went with AFRs I would recommend the 180's on a 350 street motor.


Adam