Just Curious

Was this an "out of the box" comparison, or did you tune both carbs for optimum performance?

Ed

 

Re: Just Curious

Was this an "out of the box" comparison, or did you tune both carbs for optimum performance?

Ed

Ed that was going to be my first question????

Any chances of us seeing the sheets??? With the bsfc?????

Now all we need to do is get Mr. Edelbrock or one of his daughters to read this thread and do the same test and see what results they get!!!!!anyone want to make a bet???

:boxing: :boxing: :boxing:

Keith

 

I like the idea of your testing.
Normally you get comarisoms on beefed up, track tuned carbs, but to compare that closely was a good idea. humbsup to you.:thumbup:
Wonder how a couple 575's would work on a mild blown 350 sbc motor?? HG

 

I think the choice of carbs are compairable. What should really happen is two people get together and are given specs on a given engine. Then they are allowed to chose an OFF THE SHELF carb of their maker's type (so one guy from edelbrock, one from BG). They can do tuning ONLY WITH A STANDARD TUNING KIT (i.e. no grinding or modifying the body or parts etc).

They meet at a given dyno shop, the motor is warmed up with a dummy carb, and the two guys get to tune their carbs for a best pull.

Test would be even better if the techs got to use 3 of the same carb, to eliminate a QC problem or something.

K

 

I like that idea killer.

 

Tuning

The testing was done out of the box, to be a fair apples to apples test. This would be very close to what a customer would see in the field. Normally our carburetors will run a lower BSFC based upon how we break up the fuel. I'll have the sheets scanned when I'm back in the office next week, and post them.

 

Re: Re: Just Curious

Now all we need to do is get Mr. Edelbrock or one of his daughters to read this thread and do the same test and see what results they get!!!!!anyone want to make a bet???

Keith

Don't think thats gonna happen, everything I've ever seen on the Edelbrocks' cars shows Holleys, not their namesake carbs.

 

Where I used to work, we dyno tested many engines with both Edelbrock and Holley carbs. No Flames please, but the Edelbrock carbs are more show than go. Every single time, the Holley carb would out perform the Edelbrock.

 

I am not surprised with the results, I have always tried to tell people that the "Holley" style carbs out perform the Carter/Edelbrocks. The only time I would even think about running an Edelbrock would be on a very mild car that someone didn't know how to tune a carb. They are pretty easy to tune and you can't really get into trouble. You just give up perfromance.

Tech,
I would like you to post this over on the Camaro board as well if you don't mind.

Royce

 

I have ran both the Edelbrock Performer was a nice piece,I will not knock it for what it does,it does work quite well,seemed to have a little lag though when stomped on,it could be because it was starting to show its age. I replaced it with the Road Demon 625,instantly felt the difference in my seat where it counts,fast throttle response,quicker revs,and just absolutely F'n beautiful.

 

Good deal Tech! That is a good company to do that!

But... to be fair you really compared apples to oranges, the results are of absolutely no surprise. The real test is a Holley vs BG. out of the box, no tuning, then tuning.

You should also win that one. What you guys have done is basically build the K&N substack into the carb or more precisely port and polish a Holley like my old boss used to do. like my sig you can't read says, "let the wind be your guide" and anybody that knows air can see the BG will out flow the Holley....whether the fuel circuits are up to par i can't say as i've never seen them but i'm willing to bet they are!


And then a thought crossed my mind, i bet you guys run a leaner mixture than a Holley out of the box for best efficiency rather than best torque. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

carb comparison

Since I dont have any experience with BG carbs, but knowing the rep of the company, I dont doubt the results of the test.
On the thought of slamming any particular carburetor, in the tortured and demented world I have lived in for the past 57 yrs, 99.5% of the time, when I heard someone slamming a carburetor, it was because some clown had gotten his fingers into something he didnt know about, and messed something up. Just as "Installer Error" is responsible for the premature death of most all cam installations, so goes it with carbs as well.

I figure until the day I figure out how to make that mystical, superdiscombobulated, double throwdown carb, of my own design that will kick butt on any carb, in any test, of any type, I figure, with my limited talents in that area, Dont have any reason to badmouth any of them.

 

Any general knowledge of airflow will allow one to see that the "superdiscombobulated" secondary flappers on an Edelbrock/Q-jet will not allow for the most, nor the fastest airflow...resulting in max power losses.

 

superdiscombobulated

Please dont use my words in a negative context. I was not referring to any specific brand of carburetor, but alluding to the idea if I was smart enough to design my own carburetor, that could out perform anything else on the market.

 

Finicky Tuning?

Why do the BG carbs have a bad rep for being hard to tune if they are considered a modified Holley?

 

superdiscombobulated

But it fit soo well with what i was trying to say! And actually that "superdiscombobulated" Q-jet is my #2 choice among carbs with holley being my #1 choice. NOT b/c BGs aren't the best out there, but rather the price keeps them from being the best for ME, at least until prices change( and with a product that good they will probably not decrease much in price:drunk: )

But, hey Tech@BG, you know if you want to shoot one of those ol' "used dyno carbs" over this way...:welcome:

 

BG has gone through alot of trouble to back up his company, and I think it is awesome. This is just awesome responce and surely proves to me that they are out to do the right thing when it comes to backing their product. Really just blows me away.

To those who will never believe, I dont know what to say. If edlebrock tuned theirs and BG theirs on an independent dyno, someone would still cry fowl.

I think most people are conviced......I already was. Would be great to see a scan on the dyno pulls if you can produce them. It would likely hush some people up.

Chris

 

superdiscombobulated

NXS, you go boy.
Actually the term emplies being the latest, trickest, most super refined and advanced whatever you are referring to.
Ya got to go back to a 50's rodding vernacular dictionary to find that one.

Tech@BG, gotta give you a tip of the hat for you standing behind your product. Keep up the good work.

 

Ditto with NXS. I have been itching to get my hands on one of those babys, but the price is just a killer when I can rebuild a holley for much less and it performs very well. I will take one of those used dyno carbs when you start shipping them out

Chris

 

Carb Comparisons

To BG Tech, It was NOT my intention to "slam" you or your product, dont get me wrong-- I like BG carbs, I just like Holleys better. I went back and thought about your earlier testing and frankly, I dont dispute your results--- just your comparison. Richness and leaness of a carb is relative to many facters----all carbs work because of basic physics which cannot be changed. Testing a VS street carb at a .56" Hg pressure drop to a racing carb is an unfair and misleading comparison. Racing engines are running at nearly 100% VE, street engs 70- 80 maybe. If you test a brand H Dominator or King Demon with over 2.00" throttles and 1.82" venturis at the same pressure they are reaching for 1100-1200 CFM with huge fuel flows, use alcohol and you must flow nearly 2x as much as gas. I would not compare them to a 770 VS either but I guess they would be "richer." If you do not understand carburetion or high perf engine tuning it does not matter what brand of carb you buy, you might have some problems. I will give you credit for coming here and sharing info about your product, I hope I have cleared up any misunderstanding.

 

Guys,

Thank you for your comments. This would be as close of an apples to apples test as you can realistically get within the parameters. That being a mild street engine and using the carburetor that each manufacture would use. We are not trying to say anything negative about Edelbrock® or anyone else’s products; we just believe that we have a better product. We also feel that dollar for dollar we have the best product on the market, and when you compare prices we’re very competitive with, and in many circumstances less expensive than the comparable carburetor from Holley® or any other manufacture.


Walt,

We did not take what you said as a slam. You are correct that a race engine will be more efficient than a street engine, but if you run both carburetors on the same street engine it should be the same. Putting that aside, the test that we ran in this test would be a street calibrated carburetor vs. a street calibrated carburetor on a street engine. As far as a Dominator® vs. a King Demon™ we generally see comparable results. Usually 10 to 15 more HP and using less fuel.

 

KB vsEldelbrock carbs

First let me be clear that I have no doubt that the test was conducted fairly and the BC dusted the Edelbrock on full power pulls.
Second, from what I have been told by experienced folks whose opinions I respect, the Eldebrock carburetors are the best choice for a "daily driver" (I'm happy with mine) and the Holley/BGs are best for full-tilt boogie race applications.
I would like to see, however, a test done using a Holley against the BG - THAT would be apples to apples rather than Granny Smith apples to Washington State apples.
Just some food for thought with no malice intended.
Charlie Smith

 

why do people argue like this, when they know it already. mr edelbrock already said that when it comes to performance nothing can out perform a holley stile carb. people like the old carter and comparible carbs but when it is all about performance holley carbs cant be beat. out of the box or tuned. plus you ford guys should be happy dint holleys originate on fords.

 

It seems to be very common knowledge that Holley/BG style carbs make the power. Something that is interesting to note is that Techie said that the BGs were using less fuel than the comparable Edelbrock... which would lead one to think they produce better fuel economy and easier drive-ability.

Something else interesting to note is that it seems as if the Edelbrock intakes work better than the Holley intakes...when there are no moving parts and some designs look very similar. Why?

 

Tech@BG,
Why do the BG carbs have a bad rep for being hard to tune if they are considered a modified Holley? Are they more sensative due to the modifications made? What gives? And yes, your carbs are top notch.

Had I know more about them when it was time to ditch the 750 Holley, I would have looked very seriously at 1563010VE, 1563020VE. I ended up the the Holley 80531, and I still changed out the pump cam from a pink to a green, and put in 4.5 power valves . At THIS price, it is the same as to what I paid for the Holley. Oh well, maybe next time. Just have other priorities now.