Porting should be allowed

Porting should be allowed/encouraged as your not adding parts, your just trying to make them better

 

If you're looking for the highest power numbers, you'll likely see them out of a large displacement block coupled with the best flowing heads. Probably an 8.1L vortec-based build with Mark IV heads would be my guess.

This is not considering factory forced induction vehicles I assume?

 

In these challenging economic times, not everyone can afford the latest trick whatever, and besides, with all the stuff that is out there, it can become a brainless exercise.

So let's put some restrictions on things and see what we can come up with...

What is this, kindergarten? :drunk:

If you have a question, ask it. Moving to basics.

 

Kindergarten? Good thing I have a thick skin.

There's nothing in what I asked that was basic. If anything, it should make a person think a lot harder about making an engine powerful or a car fast.

 

In these challenging economic times, not everyone can afford the latest trick whatever, and besides, with all the stuff that is out there, it can become a brainless exercise.

So let's put some restrictions on things and see what we can come up with.

Here are the parameters.

Stock longblock, stock cylinder heads, no porting

Any compression ratio, any valvetrain combination

Pump gas or E85 compatible ( no race gas )

Carburetion or EFI open in terms of CFM rating.

Headers are fine.

Aftermarket intakes are ok, but bonus points given for stock intakes.

7000 rpm limit

Just how stock are the parts? You can get some pretty trick stuff that came on production cars over the years.

Bogie

 

Take a look at a 1969 zl1 427. In stock for it still makes twice the power over most other engines. I'll take that engine and destroy anything else on the road. No need to modify it if you start out with a good motor. You need to be more descriptive in your question.

 

Just how stock are the parts? You can get some pretty trick stuff that came on production cars over the years.

Bogie

You get what I'm saying. Factory available, off the assembly line, in the boneyard, standard replacement, easy and cheap to get with emphasis on sciencing out the combination for a particular goal.

Here's an example: Boneyard 5.3L LS motor, stock unported heads, stock bottom end, only changes are: hot cam and valvetrain, upgraded manifold, injectors and programming.

If it rolled off the assembly line with it, it's OK.

 

Take a look at a 1969 zl1 427. In stock for it still makes twice the power over most other engines. I'll take that engine and destroy anything else on the road. No need to modify it if you start out with a good motor. You need to be more descriptive in your question.

No limited production units. Instead of an L88 or ZL1, a run of the mill, oval port big block.

Like I said, easy to get, nothing rare.

 

If I understand this correctly, you are looking to see what can be done with stock parts that can be installed in any motor of the same family (Chevy Gen I, LTx, LSx, etc) without making any modifications? What about any machine shop-related costs?


As Mr. Tech Inspector 1 would surely point out, many combos for Chevys have been covered here: "Small Block Chevy Dynoed Combos". Those should give some ideas.


If anyone is considering doing this, I for one am very interested in following such a project (or projects). Being one of the many who have neither access to parts, nor the tools for building and testing, I'm sure I would learn quite a bit, provided this thread doesn't turn into a bench racing/DynoSim conversation. :thumbup: Of course, many of you may have already built and tested such combos, so it would be cool to read what you found.

 

If I understand this correctly, you are looking to see what can be done with stock parts that can be installed in any motor of the same family (Chevy Gen I, LTx, LSx, etc) without making any modifications? What about any machine shop-related costs?


As Mr. Tech Inspector 1 would surely point out, many combos for Chevys have been covered here: "Small Block Chevy Dynoed Combos". Those should give some ideas.


If anyone is considering doing this, I for one am very interested in following such a project (or projects). Being one of the many who have neither access to parts, nor the tools for building and testing, I'm sure I would learn quite a bit, provided this thread doesn't turn into a bench racing/DynoSim conversation. :thumbup: Of course, many of you may have already built and tested such combos, so it would be cool to read what you found.

You hit it on the head, and it's not limited to make or model.

This isn't a "throw money at it" situation, it's about putting the money where it needs to be.

 

Made 540hp and 590 ftlbs under 5800 rpm for $2700. 455 Pontiac, probably would have made more on E85. I suppose I could dyno test the engine that has those heads on it now, but it has a smaller cam in it. It ran 11.70@115 with too much gear in a 3700lb car, out of RPM before 1000 ft. It was the blue Formula in my avatar.

This is kinda what I do. Low budget builds using mostly stock parts with upgrades where prudent or necessary.

 

those heads

I'd be interested in knowing what they are.

 

Made 540hp and 590 ftlbs under 5800 rpm for $2700. 455 Pontiac, probably would have made more on E85. I suppose I could dyno test the engine that has those heads on it now, but it has a smaller cam in it. It ran 11.70@115 with too much gear in a 3700lb car, out of RPM before 1000 ft. It was the blue Formula in my avatar.

This is kinda what I do. Low budget builds using mostly stock parts with upgrades where prudent or necessary.

You hit the heart of what I was getting after.

Anyone can spend big money on a motor. It takes true talent and skill to make maximum power with minimal money.

I look at the Engine Masters Challenge, and most of the winners are way out of reach economically for most people. John Kaase is not cheap. Everytime he wins he probably has 5 figures tied up into it.

Maybe a dollar figure should be added to the challenge. Most power developed for under $3000.00; the further under that mark gets bonus points.

 

Take a look at a 1969 zl1 427. In stock for it still makes twice the power over most other engines. I'll take that engine and destroy anything else on the road. No need to modify it if you start out with a good motor. You need to be more descriptive in your question.

Less than 70 1969 ZL1s were built by the factory, this rates right up there with genuine Hemi Cuda's and Shotgun Mustangs for being truly rare.

Bogie

 

Maybe a dollar figure should be added to the challenge. Most power developed for under $3000.00; the further under that mark gets bonus points.

I concur. Without a dollar limit, you simply go buy a new LS9 motor. 638 HP and completely factory stock. All it takes is a check for $23,000.

http://www.race-mart.com/GM_Performance_Parts-GMP-19244099.html

 

If I were after just power and not reliability...

I would get a L31 long block $500-600
Install Lunati 54762 camshaft $330
Beehive springs and retainers $400
Use a high rise single plan intake like Summit Racing SUM-226051 $220
swap meet long tube headers $60
750 carb, SUM-RM08750VS $199

and...spray it with 250 shot two stage nitrous kit, $800

Total = $2610

These guys made 600 lb-ft of torque at 4,900 rpm and 570 hp at 5,200 but slightly different parts. 250 was about all the 350 could handle before breaking piston ring lands. I'm sure you could squeeze a little more out of a L31 motor.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0406_nitrous_350_chevy/index.html

You didn't mention no NOS.

 

You didn't mention no NOS.

Nitrous would certainly be allowed... as soon as you documented on what car it was installed as a STOCK part...

 

Nitrous would certainly be allowed... as soon as you documented on what car it was installed as a STOCK part...

Well then, just swap the gas out for a turbo or two.

 

Shame no limited production units. I'd like to start with a Ford 427 SOHC.

 

Well then, just swap the gas out for a turbo or two.

I don't know if anyone remembers the guy that built the budget twin turbo Thunderbird with a 351W, a mild Crane cam, PVC pipe for the cold side, twin Turbo Coupe turbos on flipped short headers and a carb. I think he tied up $900.00 into the motor and ran 11's with it. Took the motor out of the 'Bird and put it in a Fox Capri and ran 10's with it. Stock heads, stock cast bottom end, with rings and bearings.

Oh yeah, turbos and superchargers are good IF, they were used on a production car or truck as standard equipment. So a used Eaton would qualify, junkyard turbos ( no Turbonetics, Precision Turbo, hyper exotic, unobtainium ) even up to the units used on a Class 8 diesel.


Here's a vid of the Thunderbird. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dKqH-LYjkA

 

I'd be interested in knowing what they are.

Butler ported 670 heads. Op said E85 and they are rather low compression for E85 at 11:1, and E85/HE100 is what I am running in the 455 that has those heads now. I went with a smaller cam this time, but its a hydraulic roller, its more of a mileage mule than a drag engine. This one was more expensive due to using a juice roller it cost about $4100, so it would have been $3100 with a flat hydraulic cam.

The 455 before this one ran with those 670 heads, an ultradyne hydraulic flat tappet cam(230/238), TRW forged pistons, stock rods and crank, Torker II intake with an 850 Holley on it. It had thousands of street miles on it, and over 400 drag strip passes, it lasted 7 years and only died because someone dumped lead shot in a valve cover that found its way through the oil pump screen and into #7 rod bearing. It also got 13mpg highway in this configuration.

The car had a stock suspension, some lightening, and no subframe connectors so it only 60ft in the 1.7 range with a best of 1.59 on one occasion with really good air and bite. The gears were 4.10 and it ran essentially the same with a 13" L88 style 2000 stall as it did with a 3000 stall, it actually ran faster with the lower stall, but only barely. It made some 1/8 passes with 3.42 gears and went from 7.70s in the hot humid South Carolina air to 7.50s, just with a gears swap. I shifted it a 5800, it wouldnt pull over 6000 anyway, and with the 4.10 gear it would be at 6000 before I got to 1000ft with a 28" tire. Should have been good for mid 11s with the 3.42 gears at the first track in Nebraska I ran it at. It wasnt using the power very effectively at all, but I couldnt afford to put a cage in it back then so I let it run 12.00 most of the time.

 

I'll throw another one out there, since a lot of folks ask about SBC combos.

L31 Vortec

Skim block and heads to achieve 14 to 1 compression with the right piston; I'd have to juggle some deck, gasket, chamber combo to see if something can be done with an inexpensive forged or hypereutectic piston. Of course, everything will be notched and clearanced properly.

A good 6500 rpm cam that will have enough lift to get into the sweet spot of the heads.

An ethanol compatible carburetor. Run the motor on E85 or E100 all the time.

Should be a lot of fun. If not, drop the compression to 12 to 1 and use forced induction, nothing heavy, maybe 7 pounds of boost.