yes. then you can do your filler work over it as well.

 

Yes X2 on Lizer"s post. When you apply an Epoxy primer, make sure that the metal or surface that you are going to apply it on is roughed up with 80 grit sand paper. Make sure it is clean and rust free, apply your Epoxy primer, usually 2 coats. Read your tech sheets to make sure that proper flash times have been met before applying filler. If you are planning on going the SPI route, they recommend waiting a minimum of 4 hours before applying filler if only one coat of Epoxy has been applied...if you apply 2 coats, wait an additional 8 to 12 hours before applying filler. You have a 7 day window to apply filler without sanding SPI Epoxy primer...not to worry, if you go over the 7 day window, the primer sand extremely well for an Epoxy primer.

Hope this helps.

Ray

 

If I cross the 7 day window, does it just need to be scuffed with say 120 grit?

 

You could scuff with a maroon scotchbrite pad and shoot a fresh seal coat of reduced epoxy.

 

I just checked my tech sheets and it doesn't recommend a grit...but if 80 grit is coarse enough to rough up metal, 120 grit should be coarse enough for filler...If you like i can contact BarryK and get an answer from him.

Ray

 

I put poly filler over epoxy scuffed with 180-220. Seeing as it's still on 4 years later on a [still] unpainted 67 Mustang, take your pic on the grit. I don't like to use too aggressive of a grit because I don't want to actually sand away the epoxy, just scuff. I scuff with red scotchbrite if I'm just priming 2k over it.

When I'm too aggressive with grit on this epoxy is when I get rust-through.

 

Here's a tip: Put 3 coats of SPI epoxy on, that 3rd coat will give you more build and then even after a bit of too aggressive scuffing there will remain adequate film for proper protection.
No matter what the paint is, you sand through it and the bare metal is exposed - rust will form.

Best bet after the "window" is to scuff and shoot a reduced seal coat of epoxy, that way you assure yourself of getting the best adhesion.


No body needs to call Barry or any of the crew at SPI for you, Barrys cell is a public number and he takes all calls, even when you aren't using his product and just need some Help!

Barryk cell 7 days a week 404) 307-9740
SPI- mon-fri. (706) 781-2220

 

SPI service and products are the best

 

Thanks all... Just ordered Primer, Activator and their waterborne wax and grease remover. I have to say... I'm excited about this.

 

well lets get some pics posted then.....:mwink:
My brother lives in Jersey ....

 

Sorry, but I just think it's bad advice to suggest the notion of use epoxy as a building primer to an amateur. If you sand it too much, you will get rust through. It doesn't build like the 2k, takes more work to get to build as much, doesn't sand as nice as the 2k, and is more expensive than the 2k. The 2k doesn't require induction, isn't so temperature finicky, and can be sanded sooner. Not to mention when you're trying to pile it on real thick and wet to make it build you're more prone to run it. Not as much of an issue with 2k. Though I actually did run 2k a few days ago. I had to laugh. I think that was a new low; I didn't know it was even possible. Ok, I did have some reducer in there.

 

Its always best to epoxy the bare metal 2-3 coats....
do your body filler work and epoxy again 2-3 coats (an epoxy sandwich)
after that guide coat and hand block, chances are you wont need any more filling but if you do its ok to use a 2k...but when your ready to paint use epoxy as a sealer its more chip resistant....
Something I do that not a lot of others do is use the EZ sand finishing putty in place of 2k because I can sand it in a few minutes and put it exactly where its needed....no over spray ,no taping, no waiting for it to cure....so after I sand my filler to 180 i'll spread the putty insted of using 2k primer, then sand the putty with 180 and 320, if I've done a good enough job the epoxy does all the minor filling thats left.

 

i use spi epoxy as a build primer . i can do anything with it i could do with 2k urethane primer. i shoot with a 2.3 gun and block within 24 hrs. i have no 2k urethane primer in the shop and have not for years.

 

Why block within 24 hours Shine since it can be recoated within 7 days. If you are blocking it, even the 7 days becomes irrelevant as long as you are going to recoat it with Epoxy? Does it get too hard to sand?

John

 

i do one heavy double coat at a time. i block each one the next day. you can adjust how hard it is to sand by cure time. i do not like easy sanding primer. i use no urethane primer nor do i use polyester primer .

 

When I re-did my doors and cowl on the roadster last winter I did the complete repair with SPI Epoxy and have been really pleased. There is zero shrinkage or sand scratch swelling. The reason I asked was I did wait several days to block it but do not remember that being a problem.

John

 

the longer you let it cure the harder it gets. for me , i shoot early am then block the following day . i have 0 use for urethane 2k primer or polyester primer. epoxy once cured will not react with uv rays like urethane and polyester. when i started the epoxy only i shot a door and taped off seven areas. i sanded each one a day at a time. i found for rough block with 100 24 hours worked best . when down to final block i hit it with 180 then 320-600 after 3 days.

 

not that i'm aware of. i think doing a double coat must take care of it . that or letting it induce overnight . hear it discussed from time to time on the spi users site.

 

Lizer,are you using the epoxy unreduced and cleaning with W&G before spraying ? kinda sounds like fisheye..

 

Epoxy is unreduced, I clean well with SPI solvent W&G remover first, usually will wipe a panel down several times with it to clean, then let dry, though I like the solvent because it flashes off so quickly. I'll prob get waterborne next.

 

i finish to 100 grit . double coat like old enamel days . go down a panel then back up it . i want a good wet coat heavy coat . but it seems to work better by double coating instead of laying it heavy all at once. i use a 2.3 gun .

 

Thanks shine I will give it a try for sure.

 

This is what I do....Not saying it's the right way or that everybody should do it like this but,....just what I do. The vehicle is taken down to bare metal, finished in 80 grit, 2 to coats of Epoxy Primer with proper flash times between coats, then I do my body work. I spend a fair amount of time getting my body work straight, metal work and filler work. All my filler work is finished in 320 grit. Then I apply 2 to 3 more coats of Epoxy primer, medium wet, allowing proper flash times between coats. The reason I do it this way is that I try to avoid getting any sinking 6 months to a year done the road. I let the Epoxy cure, and start block sanding with 600 wet (after 600 wet, I go to 800 wet if I'm spraying water born base coat).

I'm not saying that if you don't do it this way that the end result will be shrinking and sand scratches showing up, what i am saying is that if it is done this way, the chances of them showing up are virtually impossible.

Ray

 

Ray, you have just hit a very tender nerve with me and that is sand scratch swelling. This has been quite a problem for me for a long time, tried every thing I could to avoid this and have not had much luck. The only way I can seem to avoid it is letting the car sit for months before cutting and buffing. Have finished bodywork to 600 grit then let sit in primer for a month and guess what still see scrathes months later after buffing. Have even been in depth with Barry on this one as well and can't seem to pin point it. The last one I did with SPI epoxy seems to have held up the best so far, thats why i am trying to eliminate the poly primer as well. Am all ears if you want to give it a whirl as to WHAT is the cause of this horrible problem. That is the main reason I was going to give shines procedure a shot and completely eliminate the spray poly.

 

for what it's worth it takes longer for solvents to flash off steel than paint. if using solvent based cleaner double your flash off time .

 

the only product i know of that does not react to uv rays is epoxy .

 

Well Ray like I have said before I have even went as far as finishing the filler work in 600 grit then 2k over that with plenty of flash time 30 min and not real heavy coats either. Then block that with 320 -400- 600 then base and clear, I like you put down 5 coats as well. But 6 months down the road start seeing those swollen sand scratches again. I really beleive the whole problem lies in the base coat (solvent). I have even went as far as fogging in every coat of base with an hour between coats to make certain that it was not trapped solvents. No difference still happens. Now any decent 2K should be able to fill a 180 grit scratch without any problem as far as I can tell, but not here. It is a real aggrivating thing to have to deal with even when you go above and beyond to avoid something that continues to happen. Have thought that if I shot waterbourne mabey that would solve the problem ( less solvents) don't know. I have read your procedure and I don't see any difference with what your doing. Now here is the best part that really makes no sence what so ever. My father uses exactly the same primers, grits, procedures, basically just working in a different place and has no issues at all. He just does his own cars occasionally as a hobby, and the only difference is he sprays concept s/s. So there you have it, I will admit it is a good one that is for sure. Thanks for your reply.

 

Dennise,are your scratches only showing up over your bodywork????

 

Yes it is over the bodywork and it is all over every panel (skim coating) and mostly when the sun hits it is when it is the worst. It is a classic case of trapped solvents that I know for sure is not. Any Ideas?