This is the layout of a Model T:

Clutch (L), reverse (C), brake (R) and starter pedals, lever on the floor for 2-speed rear (if equipped, R), lever for parking brakes (L), levers on the steering column for ignition advance/retard (left side) and throttle (the "A" might have gone to a floor throttle).

Obviously, it takes some practice to become proficient at this, it's quite a departure from modern vehicles. At the time, however, the resemblance to tractor controls was no coincidence.

IIRC, the Model A was the first Ford to use a "standard" pedal layout (L to R)- clutch brake and throttle on floor, w/a gearshift to the right- so I'm not sure why yours would have 5 pedals.

AFA an engine swap, if you just have to do something, I suppose a flathead V8 would be my choice.

 

I would go with a modern 4 cylinder. They will give you the most room, easy to route intaek, and exhaust, and will supply plenty of power. I don't know whats available in Normway but over here a Zetec, Ecotec, Duratec, Quad 4, etc. can be done with a few off the shelf swap parts. You could even consider Asian drive trains. A mazda, nissian, toyota, etc 4 cylinder would be plenty capable as well. Last but not least is the Ford 2.3L turbo engine. They can be picked up for a song over here and are plenty tough to make 350+ hp with just a turbo swap.

A lot of people put flat head fords in them and there's nothing wrong with it. I'd like to see something a little more current that makes more power, lasts longer, and weighs less though.

 

Ford Model A Engine "Swap

The controls are, left to right, clutch, brake, starter button (just above and to the right of brake), throttle, foot rest, gear shift and hand emergency brake. The Model A is easy to drive and no different than almost any 3 speed standard shift transmission. I agree about a Ford flathead as a replacement engine.

 

The controls are, left to right, clutch, brake, starter button (just above and to the right of brake), throttle, foot rest, gear shift and hand emergency brake. The Model A is easy to drive and no different than almost any 3 speed standard shift transmission. I agree about a Ford flathead as a replacement engine.

I'm not trying to bash this idea, as i believe each person should build their car the way they want it, but why is the flat head ford idea so popular? I've only built one flat head ford and after that I can't see why a person would want to "upgrade" to that engine when there are so many better choices.

Its not period correct for that car or anything like that either, so I really can't make sense of it. I can understand the brand loyalty but Ford made a lot of other good engines that would work much better. What is the appeal in using such a poor design?

Again, I believe a person should use what they want, but what is the reasoning behind wanting that engine?

 

Thanks for the info guys!

cobalt327: I have only seen the inside of a stock model a, and it had more than 3 pedals and a gear shifter

turbolover: What isnt possible to get in norway, i'll import from the states. If i decide to get a Model A, i have to import it from the states because there are very few of them i norway, which means the prices are very high. the cheapest one i've found that runs is for sale at $30k...
I will look into those 4 cylinder engines you talk about, but most likely i'll go for a ford engine.

cunningham: I did a simple google search for Ford Flathead and it seems to be 5 different versions (221,239,136,255, & 337). Which one would fit the model a frame best?

 

The flathead is the classic old school upgrade for a 4 banger..but these days I agree with the guys going for the late model 4 cycl that drops right in and that can be used with either a stick or auto..Just find a donor car and get all the pieces from it..one will also need to change the rear end arrangement because of the original torque tube drive..Unless you are super machinist and can fabricate an adapter for a modern trans to bolt to that torque tube..probably in my part of the world a ford ranger p/u would make a good donor for this kind of project..

Sam

 

The flathead is the classic old school upgrade for a 4 banger..but these days I agree with the guys going for the late model 4 cycl that drops right in and that can be used with either a stick or auto..Just find a donor car and get all the pieces from it..one will also need to change the rear end arrangement because of the original torque tube drive..Unless you are super machinist and can fabricate an adapter for a modern trans to bolt to that torque tube..probably in my part of the world a ford ranger p/u would make a good donor for this kind of project..

Sam

BINGO! a Ranger makes a great donor viehicle- you can get a running one over here for like $500. All cleaned up they look pretty cool too with dual plugs per cylinder. Swap in some turbo pistons, a mild turbocharger setup, and polish/paint some pieces and you have a real neat looking 350+hp engine that is cheap to build. I wish GM would have made a turbo engine comparable to the 2.3L Ford. At least they had the Quad 4 and have the Ecotec.

 

I'm not trying to bash this idea, as i believe each person should build their car the way they want it, but why is the flat head ford idea so popular?

It's a icon, it was the first engine that would have been swapped into an A model back when the flathead V8 first became available in '32. It looks right at home, it doesn't overtax the basic design of the A, and has a "cool factor" that no 4-cylinder short of an Offy can match, IMO.

The OP asked for opinions, he's got mine!

MANY Good photos- http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3820986

HR Mag history of flathead Ford- http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hdrp_0511_ford_flathead_engine/index.html

INFO- http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_home.htm

A TON of flathead links- http://www.roadsters.com/flathead/

 

The flathead is the classic old school upgrade for a 4 banger..but these days I agree with the guys going for the late model 4 cycl that drops right in and that can be used with either a stick or auto..Just find a donor car and get all the pieces from it..one will also need to change the rear end arrangement because of the original torque tube drive..Unless you are super machinist and can fabricate an adapter for a modern trans to bolt to that torque tube..probably in my part of the world a ford ranger p/u would make a good donor for this kind of project..

Sam

Could you specify the models that would work? and whats P/U?

 

Model A frame info- useful no matter WHAT you put into it- http://www.plucks329s.org/frame.htm

"P/U"= pickup truck.

 

To me it'll always be a tractor engine, and I guess that's why it has a lack of "cool factor". Looks are finicky like that, what some people think is cool, other think is ugly. My advice to the OP is build it the way you want, some people like a retro theme, some people like performance- only you should decide what works for you.

 

Back to the Flathead: Any companies in the us that sells rebuilt or new flatheads?

 

There is not a lot of Rangers in Norway. There is lots of Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Escort, Transit and Mondeo's, but none of these will probably work :-\

 

There is not a lot of Rangers in Norway. There is lots of Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Escort, Transit and Mondeo's, but none of these will probably work :-\

Any of them may work. European version of these cars are often built better than US versions. You just need a good RWD drivetrain.

As far as "working" any engine you choose will require fabrication work, essentially they will all "work" about the same as long as they are not too long (no inline 8's).When looking at a flathead Ford built and shipped to norway you're probably in the $10K+ plus range (US dollars). When looking at using an engine available in your country you're looking at the $1k (maybe even less) range.

If you have the money build what you want, but to me cost is always a factor. See what is available local first.

 

Any of them may work. European version of these cars are often built better than US versions. You just need a good RWD drivetrain.

As far as "working" any engine you choose will require fabrication work, essentially they will all "work" about the same as long as they are not too long (no inline 8's).When looking at a flathead Ford built and shipped to norway you're probably in the $10K+ plus range (US dollars). When looking at using an engine available in your country you're looking at the $1k (maybe even less) range.

If you have the money build what you want, but to me cost is always a factor. See what is available local first.

Thanks! $10k+ is a little to much for me.

 

I really like the Ford 4 cylinder engines. The "right" one would be a 2.3 from a fairly late model Mustang or Thunderbird ('79-??)along with the transmission. If you can find one with a turbo charger, they have all the strong parts already built in so even if you don't use that little Garrett TBO3, you can still be assured that it will stay together.

Here's a listing of Ford products that used the turbos including some more easily found (for you) European cars:http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/applications/passenger_cars/ford/

A flathead is a great engine for an 'A', but a nice running version has gotten almost cost prohibitive. They are not really super easy to install in an 'A' due to that bulging firewall. Of course you can use a recessed version firewall to make it a bit easier to do - and before 'others' say it's a snap, unless you have done it with that OEM firewall, know what you are talking about.

Then of course, there is the modern engine - and depending on which one you use, there is a very big difference in the amount of work required. The gas tank has to be cut out and a new one made. My '31 has IFS as well as a 5" recessed firewall to be able to install a late Ford 5.0L and "things" are still tight:

 

There is not a lot of Rangers in Norway. There is lots of Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Escort, Transit and Mondeo's, but none of these will probably work :-\

These are all front wheel drive and while any of them could be made to work, I don't think that's what you're looking for. What I'd be looking for would be a Mazda, Toyota, Nissan, Datsun pickup truck. One thing that has not been addressed in this thread is brakes. The A has mechanical brakes, so anything over 40 hp is gonna make a dicey driver.

If I were charged with doing this for you, I'd buy a complete donor pickup truck (maybe one that has been declared a total loss by a smack in the rear or side but not hurt in the drivetrain part of the truck). I would use every mechanical part from the donor. If it was electronic fuel injection, I would use every piece of wiring and the computer from it.

The A used a half-elliptical (I think that was the term) rear spring that could be re-used to hang the differential from, along with some brackets welded on to accept conventional tube-type hydraulic shocks (the stockers were friction shocks).
That would automatically give you upgraded brakes at the rear, commensurate with the power of the motor.

I would look to Master Power Brakes for the front brake solution. I would want to adapt the pickup brakes to the stock I-beam axle. These folks can make the bracketry for you to adapt the pickup rotor to the A spindle if you are unable to cobble it up yourself. Here are some helpful links from their site....
http://www.mpbrakes.com/technical-support/configurations.cfm

Of course, there will be a hundred details which must be addressed before you make your maiden voyage with your hybrid, so I'll link a couple of books that you may want to read....
http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Swappi...-Techniques-Shop/dp/1855200171/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283219061&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Eng...ing-John-Thawley/dp/0936834110/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283219119&sr=1-2

Swapping a turbocharger onto the motor for more power shouldn't be any big deal. I'm almost certain that there are kits available for those Japanese pickup truck motors.

 

These are all front wheel drive and while any of them could be made to work, I don't think that's what you're looking for. What I'd be looking for would be a Mazda, Toyota, Nissan, Datsun pickup truck. One thing that has not been addressed in this thread is brakes. The A has mechanical brakes, so anything over 40 hp is gonna make a dicey driver.

If I were charged with doing this for you, I'd buy a complete donor pickup truck (maybe one that has been declared a total loss by a smack in the rear or side but not hurt in the drivetrain part of the truck). I would use every mechanical part from the donor. If it was electronic fuel injection, I would use every piece of wiring and the computer from it.

The A used a half-elliptical (I think that was the term) rear spring that could be re-used to hang the differential from, along with some brackets welded on to accept conventional tube-type hydraulic shocks (the stockers were friction shocks).
That would automatically give you upgraded brakes at the rear, commensurate with the power of the motor.

I would look to Master Power Brakes for the front brake solution. I would want to adapt the pickup brakes to the stock I-beam axle. These folks can make the bracketry for you to adapt the pickup rotor to the A spindle if you are unable to cobble it up yourself. Here are some helpful links from their site....
http://www.mpbrakes.com/technical-support/configurations.cfm

Of course, there will be a hundred details which must be addressed before you make your maiden voyage with your hybrid, so I'll link a couple of books that you may want to read....
http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Swappi...-Techniques-Shop/dp/1855200171/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283219061&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Eng...ing-John-Thawley/dp/0936834110/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283219119&sr=1-2

Swapping a turbocharger onto the motor for more power shouldn't be any big deal. I'm almost certain that there are kits available for those Japanese pickup truck motors.

Thanks for all this info. All the trucks above is very cheap in Norway, so at least this will keep my costs fearly low. I have saved this post in a text file on my computer, so I will look in the litterature on amazon as soon as i have bought my first model a. Thanks a lot!

 

A friend of mine had a Toyota 4cyl I think in a T Bucket...it had a hemi head on it and made pretty good power. Ed Croozer had a model A sedan Delivery with a Mercruizer (Chevy) Iron Duke 4cyl and an S10 T5. Car would cruise 80mph all day and had plenty of cool factor. Especially when you wax some kid in his Honda with a Model A and a boat engine

 

The iron duke is limited to about 160hp na without spending a lot of money. Not a bad engine if you only need that power though. A quad 4 or ecotec can hit 100hp/liter with mostly stock parts (head intake cam and exhaust upgrades needed). That's still only about 200 hp but that's not bad for those light A's.

 

160hp is twice the hp of the little flathead that came out in 32. We had a pony stock car with 2.3 ford non turbo...thanks to racer walsh...it was quite the lil powerhouse.

Not to mention that motor doesnt weigh anything and you can run traditional carbs and distributors etc...If hes not comfortable tuning and wiring...avoiding an ecotec swap isnt a bad idea.

If I lived in europe Id have a ex-buick now rover 215+ci aluminum V8. They're very compact and parts are abundant. I helped put one in an MGB...it weighed less than the original motor practically and fit like it belonged there...