4 in. bore can be made into 350-327-302 all use the same 5.7 rod. The difference is, of course, the stroke and the position of the pin in the piston. A 302 uses a 4" piston with the same pin height as the old 283. These used to be very common/popular back in the sixties and early seventies. Now they are very hard to find as there is little demand for the small cube engine. :thumbup:

 

lol
your mean is the 350 pistons cant be installed on 302 crank but with same bore ???! or not ? I did not understand your words !

What is "your" purpose for building a 302? curious

i said for reduce engine volume for better economy just for city usage because highway usage is good and normal .

in iran gasoline is expensive for we but for yours 1$ per Liter is good and low but we havent high stipend !

 

What is "your" purpose for building a 302? curious

 

Easier to find a 305 and use that, the smaller bore is more economical.

That being said, a 302 is just a 350 with 283 crank...that's the simplified version. If your "third worlding it" anyway a set of pistons and crank from a 283 is what you need.

Not that your going to find those components in your end of the world if you can't find a 305 to use.

Either way the fuel savings won't be worth the effort and not the best way to get economy, a rear axle gear change is more effective...and cheaper.

Why not tell us your complete setup so we can suggest more effective fuel saving modifications?

 

Easier to find a 305 and use that, the smaller bore is more economical.

thats great i dident know ! so the v8 267 with 3.5 bore and 3.48 stroke is ver very economical than 305 and 283 ???

That being said, a 302 is just a 350 with 283 crank...that's the simplified version. If your "third worlding it" anyway a set of pistons and crank from a 283 is what you need.

!!! these pistons unavailable in iran i searched long time for finding crank and rods and piston but i just find crank !!!

Not that your going to find those components in your end of the world if you can't find a 305 to use.

305 engine is available in iran And find one that is very easy

Either way the fuel savings won't be worth the effort and not the best way to get economy, a rear axle gear change is more effective...and cheaper.

i know this but in city in traffic run and stop run and stop engine volume is very very important example my previous nova L6 250 in city with the same setup have lower fuel efficiency ( @18Lp100km but v8 350 @ 26 to 33 )

Why not tell us your complete setup so we can suggest more effective fuel saving modifications?

my tranny is 350
rear end 2.41
carb holley 4bbl 570 avenger
and in future i will install headers with 2" dual pipe with H system

 

""That being said, a 302 is just a 350 with 283 crank...that's the simplified version. If your "third worlding it" anyway a set of pistons and crank from a 283 is what you need.""

A little too simple..

In reality, the 283 crank won't fit the 350 block without rare and expensive adapter bearings. Same with the rods.
Virtually all the popular pistons produced for the 302 were high compression. usually 11.5 to 1 plus.

Also, the 267 was a supreme TURD. Only produced a few years..Very few major parts interchange with other SBC engines..

 

Buick?

Building a Chevy 302 is a great idea. But you can't build a Chevy 302 from a Buick engine. Start with a Chevy engine.
JT

 

Building a Chevy 302 is a great idea. But you can't build a Chevy 302 from a Buick engine. Start with a Chevy engine.
JT

buick skylark 1977 350 = chevy 77 350 on nova just Buick have 4 bolt main bearing unlike chevy 2 bolt ....
302 67 have 2.30 main bearing but 68 & 69 have 2.45 main bearing like chevy 350 block

for what i cant use 350 buick for building 302 chevy ?

tnq

 

Unless I'm plain crazy ...

You just can't drop a Chevy crank into a Buick engine! Doesn't matter about bearing sizes - it won't fit.
Don't take my word - look it up.
JT

 

You just can't drop a Chevy crank into a Buick engine! Doesn't matter about bearing sizes - it won't fit.
Don't take my word - look it up.
JT

Nova & Skylark were both built in Iran from 77 to 87 & used SBC 350 Chevy engines.

 

"302 67 have 2.30 main bearing but 68 & 69 have 2.45 main bearing like chevy 350 block "

Very true, but have you priced a 68-69 302 crankshaft? Originals mostly were destroyed years ago. The results of high rpm and age. Survivors are priced beyond reason for a non "restored" engine. Only aftermkt cranks are available at decent prices. But not popular because for the same price or usually cheaper, a 383 crank can be had. Unless the engine is being built for a specific class or reason. The old adage of "Ain't no substitute for cubic inches" comes into effect.

 

The reason for doing this is what? Better gas mileage, high winding performance engine, just the fun of doing something a little off the 350 path?

The 302 can be done in a couple ways:

Using a 283 3 inch stroke crank that has the small 2.0 inch rod journals along with small journal 5.7 inch rods and 302 pistons. 302 pistons are unique they feature the 327/350 bore with the pin relocated to what would be a 283 position in the piston. Yes early 283 blocks can be punched to 4 inches and made into 302's as well. The earlier blocks have enough meat in the cylinder walls to take the .125 overbore.

Another is to use either a large journal GM 3 inch crank if you can find a decent one or the equivalent aftermarket piece which will most likely be forged 4340 and priced like gold with conventional large journal 2.1 inch 350 5.7 inch rods with 302 pistons.

Unlesss you get lucky on parts at very decent prices the cost of doing this for better mileage will not recover the inverstment in any reasonable length of time. If you doing this for performance or just because then return on investment isn't as much a consideration as return on fun.

Bogie

 

Considering your setup you would be miles ahead finding a good used modern fuel injected 305 or V6 with overdrive transmission.

What your proposing will not be cost effective or give you significant gains.

 

His "Buick" engine is a "corporate" engine; in this case, a Chevrolet 350. Also used in Olds. Ponts, Cads. But, other "corporate" engines also got used; Olds into Pont, Pont into Buick, etc, and why, who knows? IF he has a medium journal Chevrolet 302 crank, he can use his "Buick" (Chevrolet) block, 327 Chevrolt pistons (in any configuration/compression ratio), and an aftermarket rod that's 5.85 inches C/C. Pretty much an E-Bay supplied parts setup. OR, use a 350 piston, a 6 inch rod, and his 302 crank. Deck the block accordingly to get the quench. Bearings to install a small journal crank into a medium journal block can be found on E-Bay, but not the rod bearings (large rod onto small crank) so he'd need small journal rods/bearings. 6 inch rods can be found in small journal and medium journal. Not sure getting better mileage will be the result however. Better to go stroker setup, small port/valve heads, mileage cam, and all the other things we did 30 years ago with the "oil crisis". junior stocker

 

I am confused fully !
can i reduce mileage with headers and 305 cylinder head ( Increase thermal efficiency ) on my 350 engine ? if yes how much ?
i cant find 6" rods in iran with low price i must order new rods from summit and this way is expensive !
so 1 way to going 302 is available this way is shave block deck !
another way for reducing volume is 305 engine and this is easy and this way is Almost cheap.
i need a 305 block and 305 pistons but with same crank on my 350 engine and same camshaft whats ur opinion ?

any way im confused now and I cant decide !

 

Finally i find Detailed info
all info is here !!! pistons pin height and rods,block,deck all of them

http://img.overpic.net/images/x/x/g/xxxg8sev940m7thpbwxzu.jpg

 

i checked fuel usage on nova 79 from Automobile-Catalog the complete Catalog of Cars, car specs database Results is :
Nova 250 ==>City Average : 19Lp100km Extra Urban Average : 11 ( low 9.6 )
Nova 305 ==>City Average : 22Lp100km Extra Urban Average : 12 ( low 10.6 )
Nova 350 ==>City Average : 23Lp100km Extra Urban Average : 13 ( low 11.2 )

now My decision : no Worth for 1 Liter @ extra urban and city reducing fuel usage for going to 305 from 350 !
so It was my decision :i'll buy two 305 cylinder heads 416 58cc for my engine to increase compression for increase Thermodynamic efficiency
Thermodynamic efficiency can reduce fuel usage and increase torque but not very high compression ratio !

whats ur final opinion for me ?

 

why not go fuel injection and cut out 4 cylinders while in the city

 

because FI is very expensive
4 cylinder is Weak !! and im american cars lover not Play car !!! like Play boy ! or Play girl my car is my life and my life is American Products !!!
in iran 4 Cylinder American cars unavailable
from 1997 no American car imported in iran !
Camaro 1997 is latest car and impala ss 96 ! and they are expensive ( impala ss = 100.000.000 tomans my car is 15.000.000 tomans )


Fuel injection kit in iran is 2000$ ( 14.000.000 Tomans) but Holley Carb is 450$ ( 3.150.000 Tomans ) Rochester Carb is 500.000 Tomasn !

so Carb is cheap

 

Just to add a few comments:

First off, I salute you for dealing with the many hassles and expenses that surely come with your interest in U.S. cars in your part of the world. You must be a true enthusiast.

You have all the information regarding bores, strokes, bearing sizes and piston differences. However; what it all likely comes down to for you is not just specifications of parts that were once built but rather practicality and availability of mechanical parts now, as well as what type use they were or are intended for.

The Chevy 302 was originally built by Chevrolet in 1967-69 only for a racing organization rule that limited displacement; they took their common larger engine design (327, 350) and altered it with a special crankshaft (similar to one from their older smaller 283) and pistons, and combined that with their highest-performance camshaft, heads and intakes. The problem for you is that all these parts were not built for mass use or low cost, instead they were intended for high-performance and are now rare and expensive. (An irony is that the original 302s were known to in-fact use more fuel than the larger engines they were based on, and were poor performers in city traffic, etc.) A 302 c.i.d. engine can be built also from 283 parts which once were common but there really is no good reason any longer to deal with the hassle and expense of building a 302 Chevy (except for historical interest) when other more-common sizes will do a good job for most uses.

Another Irony is that the Ford 302 has the same bore and stroke of that Chevy motor and is one of the most common and inexpensive motors around, but that is of no use to you.

The Chevy 305 has a longer stroke and smaller bores to be nearly the same size displacement but are very common. Most people in the U.S. prefer the 350 and will throw a 305 to scrap, but the smaller engine makes good torque and feels/sounds like a big V8 at low rpm speeds, and of-course is more economical to run. The stock compression ratios are low thus they lose some efficiency in that way but can use lower-grade fuel.

It would be my opinion that rather than attempt to mix and match parts and risk ending up with something that won't work altogether, it would be far preferable to try to get a complete 305 and suffer the penalties but gain the advantages of that relatively inexpensive motor which is similar to all other Chevy small-block V8s in most ways, and which respond to modifications same as other engines.

However, the fact that these are common here doesn't mean they are in the Middle East, I know it's a different world especially considering the political changes of that era which affected availability. Too bad you can't just get one from here and have it shipped over at reasonable cost and just swap out your current 350. As it is, the costs involved would possibly never be made up for in the fuel saved.

 

!!!

First off, I salute you for dealing with the many hassles and expenses that surely come with your interest in U.S. cars in your part of the world. You must be a true enthusiast.

you are really a good man, me too I salute you for your great personality for replying me and your time ....

You have all the information regarding bores, strokes, bearing sizes and piston differences. However; what it all likely comes down to for you is not just specifications of parts that were once built but rather practicality and availability of mechanical parts now, as well as what type use they were or are intended for.

yeah but these are in now not important because Search and collect parts is not possible for me or we ! in iran However with low cost and healthy parts and new

The Chevy 302 was originally built by Chevrolet in 1967-69 only for a racing organization rule that limited displacement; they took their common larger engine design (327, 350) and altered it with a special crankshaft (similar to one from their older smaller 283) and pistons, and combined that with their highest-performance camshaft, heads and intakes. The problem for you is that all these parts were not built for mass use or low cost, instead they were intended for high-performance and are now rare and expensive. (An irony is that the original 302s were known to in-fact use more fuel than the larger engines they were based on, and were poor performers in city traffic, etc.) A 302 c.i.d. engine can be built also from 283 parts which once were common but there really is no good reason any longer to deal with the hassle and expense of building a 302 Chevy (except for historical interest) when other more-common sizes will do a good job for most uses.

Exactly

Most people in the U.S. prefer the 350 and will throw a 305 to scrap

lol in iran we love this engine and we to much love 350 v8 but 80% of peoples in use of below 1.8L engine !!! like peogeut 405 1800cc - 206 1600cc Pride 1300cc kia rio 1500cc Renault L90 1600cc ... so these v8 ( 305 350 ) engine for we are Myth power Because auto import is prohibited by the actual price example american cars from 97 year havent License number registration for always just for 2 months or use in free zone like Port town or border town so for driving a power full car like chevy camaro 2014-15 we must buy M Benz e350 with 250.000.000 tomans In the event that real price must be 160.000.000 just for power but chevy v8 350 with good carb and heads and headers and cam can reach 300-350 hp easily with cheap price like 20 to 30.000.000 tomans .
so we just have a tree way 1- pay and have a lot of money for buy new pwer full cars 2- buy a classic american cars 3- buy lower end power car like peogeut 405 or pride or other i said that's or tolerated this time and then dead ( in mohamad reza shah era "1979 last year of shah" iran have best of the best time of the date @ technology generation )

and of-course is more economical to run.

yes so i want to build a power full car with economical fuel usage @ normal driving but @ wot have a great power with low cost or not dead or not buy expensive new cars Despite spending much more than classic chevy !!!
70% of peoples of iran have below 4.000.000 tomans stipend and 40% of 70% have below 2.000.000 with very high Monthly expenses 1.000.000 to 3.000.000 tomans ( below 2.000.000 expenses is A life of poverty )

The stock compression ratios are low thus they lose some efficiency in that way but can use lower-grade fuel.

in iran we have good fuel and this reason not important

It would be my opinion that rather than attempt to mix and match parts and risk ending up with something that won't work altogether, it would be far preferable to try to get a complete 305 and suffer the penalties but gain the advantages of that relatively inexpensive motor which is similar to all other Chevy small-block V8s in most ways, and which respond to modifications same as other engines.

yeah i agree
but i said i checked fuel usage of 305 and 350 engines these engines have 1 to 2 liters fuel usage different so for 2 liters havent Worth to i reduce my engine volume from 350 to 305 but to 250 or 265 it is worth because The difference is significant
so I gave up to building 305 engine ! with high Expenses building maybe in future i will build a tuned L6-250 for economy not 305 for a little reducing fuel usage ...

However, the fact that these are common here doesn't mean they are in the Middle East, I know it's a different world especially considering the political changes of that era which affected availability. Too bad you can't just get one from here and have it shipped over at reasonable cost and just swap out your current 350. As it is, the costs involved would possibly never be made up for in the fuel saved.

yeah we are sorry for islamic repulic of iran regime
we have Stupid and selfish leader on top of iran that him said down with us
no really down with your

so much tanx

 

Husein,
keep us posted on your project and post pictures as you build it.

 

I saw a brand new 1994-1996 GEN 2 L99 4.3(265cid) V8 longblock for sale on EBay for only $1700. Those engines were rated at 200hp@5000rpm and 240 lb/ft torque@2400rpm.
The 4.3 L99 would achieve fuel economy approaching 30 miles/US gallon (7.8 liters/100km) in the large Chev Caprice rwd cars. The 4.3 L99 V8 equipped Caprices were EPA rated at 26 or 27 mpg(8.7-8.4liters/100kms)

I had a 1989 Chev Caprice with the TBI 305 and more rare 200R4 4 speed auto trans(high 0.67:1 OD ratio) with a 2.41:1 rear gear ratio and once netted around 30 miles/Canadian gallon(24.9 miles/US gallons or 9.4 liters/100kms) for me over a long 1400km trip. It would cruise at around 1400rpm at 70mph, but required me to pull the shifter down out of overdrive into drive on any sort of a hill, in order to avoid the deep throttle that would have been required to maintain speed, even once the torque converter unlocked. To pull 70 mph in Drive(3rd) my revs would be around 2175.

A 1992-1997 GEN 2 carb intake and carb and you'd have an efficient engine along with that great V8 sound.
I do realize that shipping would be crazy, but since the 1994-96 Caprice/Impala SS are popular cars in Iran, perhaps you'd be able to source a 4.3 liter/265cid V8 L99 in Iran. The 4.3 L99 was the "base" engine in the 1994-96 Caprice. The iron headed 260hp@5000rpm/330lb/ft@2400rpm. The LT1 was the "optional" engine. Even some 9C1 police package Caprices came standard with the 4.3 L99 V8, with the LT1 being the "popular" option. The LT1 powered 9C1 Caprice sedan broke acceleration and braking records at the Michigan State police testing/training center. The Caprice even bested the B4C police package with its aluminum headed 285hp@5200rpm/325lb/ft@2400rpm LT1 engine. I cant remember which parameters, but I was impressed. Police Departments liked the 94-96 (C1 police package cars so much, that there were programs started which took 9C1 Caprices which had come to the end of their service lives and rebuilt the entire cars. New engines, transmissions, suspensions etc were installed into the cars. At the time, the alternative was the Ford Crown. They'd rather have a rebuilt Caprice than a brand new Crown Victoria Police Interceptor(CVPI) The "interceptor" at the time had their anemic 4.6 liter V8 which from 93-97 made 215hp/ 270lb/ft torque with the dual exhaust option. From 1998-2000 the 4.6 still made 215hp, but got an extra 10 lb/ft torque up to 285lb/ft again with the dual exhaust option.
Cops hated the Ford "Interceptors" compared to the 94-96 9C1 Caprices.

Sorry for the book, but these 1992-97 Generation 2 Small Block Chev engine really brought performance back to a lot of GM vehicles.

peace
Hog

 

Husein,
keep us posted on your project and post pictures as you build it.

sure

I saw a brand new 1994-1996 GEN 2 L99 4.3(265cid) V8 longblock for sale on EBay for only $1700. Those engines were rated at 200hp@5000rpm and 240 lb/ft torque@2400rpm.
The 4.3 L99 would achieve fuel economy approaching 30 miles/US gallon (7.8 liters/100km) in the large Chev Caprice rwd cars. The 4.3 L99 V8 equipped Caprices were EPA rated at 26 or 27 mpg(8.7-8.4liters/100kms)

so for buying this engine i must pay 15.000.000 tomans but for rebuild my engine i need only 3.000.000 tomans (About 333$) because for change tomans (iran rial) to dollar every 1 dollar is 3500 tomans but for importing and shipping and other every dollar is 7000~9000 Tomans !!!! ( for light weight is 7000 for heavy weight is about 9000 tomans )

hogg

tnq for ur rply
but i searched in tehran and other city but 265 engine unavailable on earth for sell because this engine installed on a nice car and expensive @1996 in iran for this reason peoples extreme care it
so 265 will not and unavailable in Car cemetery or Spare parts shop but i'll be search again maybe i could found it !
so my selection just is 305 or 350
I decided to rebuild my 350 with 305 (416 cast) heads and with holley 4 bbl 570 avenger carb plus headers with 2.25 dual pipes @ H
its pwr about 300 hp with 300 lb ft torque
and my mileage will be about 18L/100km city with normal driving and 10or11L/100km High way@110Km/h
however with 2.15 (41:19) rear end ...

 

"Only 1700 for a shortblock"?

To me that's expensive. I have little more than that into my whole truck.
JT

 

in iran from International sanctions times Importing is very hard and expensive and this problem Causing expensive on parts in iran is available
5 years ago repairing and rebuilding cost for a chevy 350 v8 is about 1.000.000 to 1.500.000 tomans but now is 4 to 5.000.000 tomans but for me without Mechanical wage is 3.000.000 because i can rebuild my engine without helping mechanic just for shave and servicing heads i need to go machine shop but is cheap

 

hi
can any body help me to means this info :
http://img.overpic.net/images/y/h/o/xyhou874tefag9rs76l.jpg

whats B/S And L/S means ?

 

The B/S is the Bore to Stroke ratio. Take the Bore and divide by the Stroke.

The L/S is the Conecting Rod Length to Stroke Ratio. Take the Connecting Rod Length and divide it by the Stroke.


350=4.00 bore and 3.48 stroke and uses a 5.7" connecting rod length
B/S= 4.00 divided by 3.48= 1.15
L/S=5.7" divided by 3.48= 1.64

These figures are used to compare different engines and combinations to one another.

peace
Hog

 

yes
tnq for ur reply
my new decision is rebuilding 350 with new cylinder heads like vortec for better compression and larger valves but crank and pistons is std
i decided to change rear end ratio to 2.15 from 2.41 for better economy @ highway
but in city does not change from 20 to 26 liters/100km

 

lower your highway speed to 50 mph and the mileage will be good. 2.73 gear puts you at 50 mph at 1700 rpm.Your engine can produce over 100 hp at this low rpm which is more than enough to cruise at 50 mph or 80 kmh.You need to lower the drag and friction of car.

you should be able to maintain 50 mph with about 35 hp,that is likely around 15-16 pounds of fuel per hour. about 23 mpg or less if the engine burns .44 ish pounds fuel per horse power produced.

while accelerating you will need 12-13 more horse power
if climbing a hill add 1 hp per 1% of hill grade

do some math and you can see idle time and acceleration time you will use a lot more fuel.
my son the engineer did calculations based on a 4,000 pound (rolling) mass.
you need to tune your car for least rolling resistance and keep cruise speed under 50 mph/80 kph or wind resistance will greatly increase your fuel consumption